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#1. RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:11:25 -0400 From: Patrick Goss - PA <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) I was under the impression the caps/end plates were one piece and thus require entire removal of the bar and caps to get beneath... -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:31 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:24:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) What do you mean by block? The JTD bar has end caps that are removeable. Whether or not they are purely cosmetic...I dunno. It's a pain to remove and reinstall because the CNC tolerances were very tight. I have run my JTD bar with the center caps removed with no ill effects. With the caps off, you can make your adjustments and then if you want, slap the caps back on. Chester --- Patrick Goss - PA <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> wrote: > BTW with all the talk about struts and then camber kits, wouldn't some strut > bars cover the camber kit access. > > I absolutely like the hinge-less design of the JTD but fear it might prevent > access to camber plates if I go that way some day. ===== ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. Reminder: Check the bolt holding the Koni in!!! - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:13:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Reminder: Check the bolt holding the Koni in!!! On a side note with all this suspension talk, I noticed a clanging sound coming from the front of the car about a week or two ago. It sounded like I was dragging a chain and only happened when I went over bumps and other road imperfections. Couldn't find it the last time I took the wheel off to take a look but this morning, I crawled under the car and thought it was the steering rack bolts coming out. Nope...those were tight. Then I looked at the front strut touched the bolt/washer combo and was able to displace the washer up and down a significant amount. I replaced the front Konis a few months ago because they were leaking. I know Wayne and I torqued those struts into the housing, but I guess we didn't get the strut insert to completely bottom out in the housing. I was able to turn the bolt a significant amount before it tightened up. So...check them bolts! Also, doesn't anyone happen to know the torque for that bolt? Thanks, Chester =====
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) - from debuhr@comcast.net
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:25:25 +0000 From: debuhr@comcast.net Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) I have heard from several people that the GC CC plates are comaptible with the JTD stress bar. -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:24:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: Chester Wong > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) > > What do you mean by block? The JTD bar has end caps that are removeable. > Whether or not they are purely cosmetic...I dunno. It's a pain to remove and > reinstall because the CNC tolerances were very tight. I have run my JTD bar > with the center caps removed with no ill effects. > > With the caps off, you can make your adjustments and then if you want, slap the > caps back on. > > Chester > > --- Patrick Goss - PA wrote: > > BTW with all the talk about struts and then camber kits, wouldn't some strut > > bars cover the camber kit access. > > > > I absolutely like the hinge-less design of the JTD but fear it might prevent > > access to camber plates if I go that way some day. > > > ===== > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions - from debuhr@comcast.net
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Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:27:43 +0000 From: debuhr@comcast.net Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions Does the TC kit use a shortened strut housing? If so, a shortend rear shock would be appropriate, right? -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:04:07 -0700 (PDT) > From: DocWyte > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions > > You have to sell your current cut n gut front koni's > to use the TC Kline coilovers, as the fronts are a > complete strut housing with body on coilovers. > > You can run your current rear SA koni's with the kit, > that's what I do. I was just pointing out that if you > wanted to get DA's, it's more beneficial to get them > for the rear, rather than the front. > > There is a spot for a set screw on the rear adjusters, > but you don't use it. TC Kline doesn't even include > it with the kit. There's no need for it, the > adjusters don't move, even if you have the car jacked > up. > > -josh > > > --- Chester Wong wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:54:39 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Chester Wong > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions > > > > > > --- DocWyte wrote: > > > Easy choice. Sell your current front koni's and > > get > > > the TC Kline kit keeping your rear koni's. You'll > > see > > > most of the benefit of DA koni's in the rear. > > > > Not sure I quite follow. You said to sell the front > > konis and keep the rear > > SAs, but you also say that you'll get the most > > benefit of DAs in the back. Are > > you suggesting to send the rears in to get modified? > > > > > The TC Kline springs and adjusters are very, very > > > nice. I've been extremely pleased with the kit > > and > > > service. > > > > The rear height adjuster looks like you screw in a > > set screw to fix the > > moveable collar, no? I would think that the set > > screw marrs the soft > > aluminum...it's not steel, right? > > > > Thanks, > > Chester > > > > ===== > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > > sponsors: > > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > Eurosport High Performance > > http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > ===== > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions - from DocWyte
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 13:36:53 -0700 (PDT) From: DocWyte <josh_wyte@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions They use the koni threaded body on strut in the front. Not sure if it's shorter than stock. I use the externally adjustable rear koni's. Pretty sure they're a stock length... -josh --- debuhr@comcast.net wrote: > Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:27:43 +0000 > From: debuhr@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Suspension component questions > > Does the TC kit use a shortened strut housing? If > so, a shortend rear shock would be appropriate, > right? > > ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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#6. RE: Shocks and Struts - from AVUSM3@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:43:55 EDT From: AVUSM3@aol.com Subject: RE: Shocks and Struts Rich - Bilsteins (at least the original style) will certainly raise the car with stock springs. I know this for a fact as I have done the installation a few times, and have accurate before and after measurements for my car in particular. In my case they raised the ride height about 1/2" all the way around. You are correct that there is about 750lbs on each corner of the car. You ask how the shocks could exert enough force to alter ride height? It's actually fairly simple. Lets say for example the stock spring rate at the front of the car is 200 lbs. load of 750 lbs/ 200 lbs per inch rate = 3.75 inches of travel (with no compression resistance from stock strut) The Bilsteins, unlike the stock Boges, have a substantial compression resistance due to the high pressure gas contained in the monotube design. If we assume for a minute that this compression resistance effectively causes a "compression" spring rate of 50lbs per inch, then the combined spring+bilstein calculation looks like: load of 750 lbs/ 250 lbs per inch rate = 3.00 inches of travel. While the actual numbers used here are approximations, I think its quite possible a shock/sturt with substantial compression resistance (from high pressure internal gas) can have a significant effect on ride height. I'm sure you would agree that the Bilsteins require significantly more force to compress (while off the car) than the stock units. It's this difference in compression resistance that causes the ride height change. John Cloutier Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 12:01:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: RE: Shocks and Struts > 1) Bilsteins but you will "have" to change the springs. Run it with > stock springs and it 'will' raise the car one full inch in the front > (ask me how I know). This was not the case on the '97 M3 I did a few weeks ago. The Bilsteins did not raise the car 1" each corner, matter of fact, the ride height did not change. These were the latest Bilsteins (with the proper bumpstop direct from Bilstein). Frankly, I don't believe it can happen. In order for the car to raise 1" at each corner with the same exact springs, the new shocks/struts would have to have a lot of gas pressure in order to lift the car equally at each corner. If there was ~750 lbs. at each corner, the shock/strut would have to exert enough pressure to overcome that weight plus the assistance the spring provides at that point of travel. Since I can compress a Bilstein strut/shock by hand, I don't think that is too likely. It might have a small effect, but I find it hard to believe it was 1". Regards, Rich
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#7. RE: Shocks and Struts - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:45:59 -0400 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Shocks and Struts Rich, I am glad you are one of the lucky ones who did not experience the Bilsteins/stock spring height increase. I however did not have the 'latest' Bilsteins and my car sat higher (after the shock/struts install) and when I parked it next to John Stoj's stock suspended M3 and measured the gap, I could slide in an extra finger on the front tire well with Bilsteins/stock springs (compared to John Stoj's). I just measured my index finger this very second and its 3/4inch on the Fiskars scale. Guess I was mistaken, it not one full inch but more like 3/4th inch raise in the front when you install Bilstein on stock shocks. Well, I can understand you are not convinced, and I am sorry I cannot provide a reason as to "why it raises the car" here (unfortunately I am a finance geek and not an engineer). For more facts, call up Turnermotorsport and speak with Doug. I called him when I had this issue and he too agreed that a lot of customers complained about their cars being raised with Bilsteins/stock and even H&R OE Sport springs. Here is what Carl Buckland has to say: http://members.aol.com/agspeed/HRe36m3.htm Hope this helps. Ahmad -----Original Message----- From: Rich Dorffer [mailto:e36m3digest@ameritech.net] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 3:01 PM To: e36m3@bmw-m.net Cc: m3_racer99@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Shocks and Struts > 1) Bilsteins but you will "have" to change the springs. Run it with > stock springs and it 'will' raise the car one full inch in the front > (ask me how I know). This was not the case on the '97 M3 I did a few weeks ago. The Bilsteins did not raise the car 1" each corner, matter of fact, the ride height did not change. These were the latest Bilsteins (with the proper bumpstop direct from Bilstein). Frankly, I don't believe it can happen. In order for the car to raise 1" at each corner with the same exact springs, the new shocks/struts would have to have a lot of gas pressure in order to lift the car equally at each corner. If there was ~750 lbs. at each corner, the shock/strut would have to exert enough pressure to overcome that weight plus the assistance the spring provides at that point of travel. Since I can compress a Bilstein strut/shock by hand, I don't think that is too likely. It might have a small effect, but I find it hard to believe it was 1". Regards, Rich
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) - from Dames, Mark A.
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:17:25 -0700 From: "Dames, Mark A." <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) I cannot, in good conscience, let this man's wasted two hours be to no avail. You can cut the top off of the stock housing in one minute with A very thin, 3 inch ceramic cutting disc (available at Home Depot), that would fit on the end of either a drill or a rotary air or electric cutting tool. mark. Chris wrote: I have also ran the Koni SA inserts in the stock housing, and I think it took about 1 hour per strut to cut the top off with a hacksaw and drill the hole in the bottom. Really no big deal. Chris ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:48:01 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> > Subject: Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) > > So I searched the archives on Konis vs. Bilsteins, and > after a couple of hundred posts I'm not much better > off than I was before. Maybe I should have read them > as they came out over the last couple of years. > Anyhow, on to the question.... > > After 45000 miles or so my '97 feels like it could get > some new shocks and struts. I'd like to be able to > buy the shocks and struts and not have to tear them > apart as I've read is required with Konis (I think). > I'd like to retain stock ride hieght, and have a > slightly firmer ride. Of course I suppose I could > just go with OE Boge units and be done with it. > However, I do track the car about 3 to 5 times a year > and would like the added performace of aftermarket. > > In fact the reason for finally doing suspension work > is the Sept 11 NASA event at Infineon. The wife's > American Iron Camaro lost the engine, so we get a > chance to relive the good old days of taking the car > to the track without the truck, trailer, gas jugs, > mountain of spares, etc.... > > Suggestions on shocks and struts that will provide a > slightly firmer ride, keep stick height, and not > require pre-install, are much appreciated. Also, > should I swap the strut hats while I have it all > apart? > > Thanks! > > Jason
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) And if you want a really nice cut..... http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/LIS-31500.html Chester --- "Dames, Mark A." <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> wrote: > I cannot, in good conscience, let this man's wasted two hours be to no > avail. > You can cut the top off of the stock housing in one minute with A very thin, > 3 inch ceramic cutting disc (available at Home Depot), that would fit on the > end of either a drill or a rotary air or electric cutting tool. > mark. > =====
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) - from Dames, Mark A.
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Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 15:10:14 -0700 From: "Dames, Mark A." <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) a dedicated tool for the purpose, gotta have it! -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 2:21 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 14:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Shocks and Struts (for the billionth time?) And if you want a really nice cut..... http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/LIS-31500.html Chester --- "Dames, Mark A." <Mark.Dames@PDO.Co.Santa-Clara.CA.US> wrote: > I cannot, in good conscience, let this man's wasted two hours be to no > avail. > You can cut the top off of the stock housing in one minute with A very thin, > 3 inch ceramic cutting disc (available at Home Depot), that would fit on the > end of either a drill or a rotary air or electric cutting tool. > mark. > ===== ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************