-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? - from Chester Wong
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:03:33 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? That's bullsh*t. Having only to replace two sensors might be true, but the rear sensors are most certainly O2 sensors. Chester --- Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> wrote: > So based on this, I don't see how anyone can arrive at the fact there > are 4 O2 sensors. There are two more sensors, post-cat, but these are > temperature based sensors and are not actual O2 sensors, my mechanic > pointed out. > > Make sense? =====
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? - from Theodore Serbinski
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:30:12 -0500 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? > That's bullsh*t. Having only to replace two sensors might be true, but the > rear sensors are most certainly O2 sensors. Then why would the the BMW software for working on cars say they are only 2??? The are two more sensors, but they are not labeled as O2 sensors... hmmm I am going to see him tmorrow, maybe I can see his software and figure this out. ted
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? - from Kent L. Shephard
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:17:40 -0800 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? Hi, All the manuals I have list them as O2 *NOT* pyrometers. Just knowing the temperature will *NOT* tell you if the cat has failed. Another O2 sensor post cat can tell if the cat is actually working by measuring the difference in what it sniffs. If the cat isn't working the unburned hydrocarbons will be higher than if it is working. Just temperature won't tell you that. 4 sensors. Two pre cat and two post. Kent Chester Wong wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:03:33 -0800 (PST) >From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? > >That's bullsh*t. Having only to replace two sensors might be true, but the >rear sensors are most certainly O2 sensors. > >Chester > >--- Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> wrote: > > >>So based on this, I don't see how anyone can arrive at the fact there >>are 4 O2 sensors. There are two more sensors, post-cat, but these are >>temperature based sensors and are not actual O2 sensors, my mechanic >>pointed out. >> >>Make sense? >> >> -- Please sponsor my daughter's school raffle, education is important. For more information: http://www.kls-consulting.com/shelton/shelton1a.jpg http://www.kls-consulting.com/shelton/shelton2a.jpg Tickets are available through me.
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: [E36M3] Strut bars: cost effectivity - from docwyte@comcast.net
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:22:48 +0000 From: docwyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: [E36M3] Strut bars: cost effectivity The sparco bar is crap. At least the front one is. Not sturdy at all, very easy to deflect, poor weld quality, blocks the oil filler on the OBD1 cars and also blocks the diagnostic port. -josh -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:52:41 +0000 > From: jakeadavis@comcast.net > Subject: Strut bars: cost effectivity > > Don't know if this helps, but Sparco makes reasonably priced front and rear > strut braces for the E36. At one time ASC fitment was an issue, don't know if > that's still true. > > Here's one source for Sparco: > http://www.abtivan.com/sparco/sparco_braces.htm#Sparco%20Strut%20Braces > > Prices range from ~$100 for a steel front bar to ~$244 for aluminum front bar. > Rear bar is $126.75. > > No affiliation, haven't dealt with these folks, just passing on info. > > I originally had a Sparco aluminum front bar, but just had to go for the bling > of the original Strut Barbarian. > > Agree the Xbrace is best bang for buck and is the place to start. > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Re: How many o2 sensors? - from Neil Maller
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:29:20 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: How many o2 sensors? on 11/18/04 4:12 PM, Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> wrote: > I then called my mechanic after this, who tunes BMWs for a living, > mostly E36s and some E46s and his software, straight from BMW, which > tells him where parts and what he needs to work on cars, only calls > for TWO O2 sensors to be changed, one left, one right, both before the > cat. You mean that the engine diagnostic is only calling for two oxygen sensors to be changed at this time, in response to this particular fault code. > So based on this, I don't see how anyone can arrive at the fact there > are 4 O2 sensors. Because there ARE four oxygen sensors. > There are two more sensors, post-cat, but these are > temperature based sensors and are not actual O2 sensors, my mechanic > pointed out. Pure nonsense. The two post-cat oxygen sensors are identical to the pre-cat sensors. Same parts. Neil 96 M3 - "Bastard child"
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. RE: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? - from Mel Silva
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:40:17 -0600 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? It is part of the OBDII Spec that cars equipped with OBDII have two sensors exhaust bank that has a separate catalytic converter. The reason behind this as explained in the Clean Air Act of 1990 (http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/mfrltrs2.htm) is twofold. The first sensor is for the engine management system to manage air/fuel ratio ....blah^3, the second sensor (in each channel) is to determine when the cat has come up to temperature and that it is fully functional. The OBDI cars I am familiar with only have 2 sensors (1 per exhaust bank, i.e. channel) and they are before the cat. Thus, one can remove the cats on OBDI cars without experiencing the CEL syndrome. Therefore the second O2 sensor should tell you when and if the cat has failed, this assumes that the sensor doesn't fail before the cat which we know to deviate from reality. You need to pin this 'mechanic' down as to what the error code really says. BMW independent analysis says that if the error originates from the engine management system, then the pre-cat sensors are to blame. Conversely, if the error originates from the emissions system, then the post-cat sensors or the cats themselves have failed. I usually keep my typing fingers to myself unless I know something about the subject matter. You are free to call bullsh^t on me, but on this subject I have done some homework. Mel Silva www.melsilva.net -----Original Message----- From: Theodore Serbinski [mailto:stanson@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 3:42 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 16:30:12 -0500 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] how many o2 sensors? > That's bullsh*t. Having only to replace two sensors might be true, but the > rear sensors are most certainly O2 sensors. Then why would the the BMW software for working on cars say they are only 2??? The are two more sensors, but they are not labeled as O2 sensors... hmmm I am going to see him tmorrow, maybe I can see his software and figure this out. ted ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: How many o2 sensors? - from Chester Wong
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:47:13 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: How many o2 sensors? --- Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> wrote: > > So based on this, I don't see how anyone can arrive at the fact there > > are 4 O2 sensors. > > Because there ARE four oxygen sensors. > > Neil > 96 M3 - "Bastard child" Don't the '96s only have two sensors? Isn't it some sort of hodge podge recipe like 3.2L block, '95 exhaust manifold, '95 cats with that nasty Y section, and ugly '95 side repeater? Wait a second, does the '96 even have O2 sensors? <VBG> =) Glad to see your sig stick...gives me a grin every time I see it. Chester =====
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Re: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... - from Steve Lilley
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:51:18 -0500 From: Steve Lilley <m3steve@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... I found the following procedure to remove carbon buildup: <http://home.earthlink.net/~m3steve/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/carbonremoval.pdf> Is this procedure safe or even advisable? I definitely don't drive my (non-BMW) daily-driver very hard...never above 4K rpms, and never WOT -- because it just doesn't feel happy doing it. The 330i sees redline once or twice per week on the other hand. Does driving harder keep the internals cleaner? Would I be crazy to do the following procedure once per year on all my cars? Or is an "italian tune up" better? Any feedback appreciated! Regards, Steve 2004 330i ZHP (fun car, often sees 90+ mph in 3rd gear) 1998 Volvo V70XC (safe-but-slow commuter car, rarely sees 80+mph) 1998 MB E320 Wagon (her car, never sees 4000rpms either)
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... - from jason
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:53:00 -0800 From: jason <jason@doomba.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 11:22, Chester Wong wrote: > How would I know if my rings were bad? the rule of thumb as i understand it: valve guides: big dab of throttle to speed up motor. lift fast. so you got the thing spinning fast just as you clamp the throttle closed. exhaust valve closes. throttle butterfly closed. piston goes down. pulls big vacuum. sucks oil into cylinder past the valve guide/seal of the intake valve. hit the gas again and you get a puff of blue smoke. dab dab dab and puff puff puff. rings: leak all the time. most noticeable under load at relatively low rpm. like if you are pulling away in 1st from a stop. you see it all the time. i guess the reason its more noticeable at low rpm is because more oil escapes past the rings and is burned in a given stroke at low rpm than at high rpm (more time for oil to be sprayed on cylinder wall). under load means there is enough gas around to burn the oil. makes nice blue exhaust until the rpms rise and its not as noticeable. at least thats how my grandpa taught me. also taught me how to listen for bad main bearings, but i've never been able to hear them. rod bearings are pretty obvious though. jason
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. RE: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... - from Carey Probst
Top
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 18:48:56 -0500 From: "Carey Probst" <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... Don't worry Jason, if it's a main bearing you WILL hear and feel it based on spinning one in my old Jeep a few years back. It was loud and vibrated like crazy. Never did one on a BMW so they may be quiet but I doubt it. Carey Probst, '99 M3/2, '86 325e w/i cam BMW CCA Patroon and Genesee Valley Chapters JC CAIed and Sharked, Stressed, Schrothed, Gauged, Hitched, X-Braced A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. -----Original Message----- From: jason [mailto:jason@doomba.com] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 6:32 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was Cams ... now Carbon build up ... at least thats how my grandpa taught me. also taught me how to listen for bad main bearings, but i've never been able to hear them. rod bearings are pretty obvious though. jason