-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Re: More HIR stuff - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 12:57:50 -0800 From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: More HIR stuff > So this is an admission that you know of NO source for these bulbs > at $0.83 or $2.00 or any price? Actually, I know of one source for them at $2.12 pair. I think they call themselves THE FACTORY. Now everyone is armed with the real cost of the product (in 9006 bases, apparently) they can shop intelligently. Since I don't, won't, can't sell them, I am incapable of making a dime off of them either. I can buy them but I have contracts on what I am allowed to wholesale or retail. There is no contract on information I can actually tell people. Want to set up a group buy? Call the factory, ask for Esther in the export department. See if she will sell them to you. They shouldn't cost more than $3.50 per pair even with air freight. Knock yourself out. > >>1. The large warranty exposure on a relatively short lived bulb > > > I see no data supporting "comparatively better" Comparatively better is known as +/- 15% of the performance for 1/10th the retail price. > >>3. Bulbs with really very good performance and very nice pricing, >>lifetime and warranties are available. Widely. > > No argument except on performance. I have data on the performance, > and quite a bit of anecdotal data on the actual lifetime. The lifetime test is about as clise to the way I use MY lights as the gas mileage test is. >>For your article I think it would be a disservice to mention a bulb that >>can't be gotten easily and will be almost impossible to get warranty >>support for it. Why put off people chasing a bulb they won't find when >>there are so many other alternatives available? > > I pointed them to a source. It can be found. It is superior in light > output to any bulb Sylvania manufactures. I am presenting FACT > and data in the article - no more, no less. Ok. I agree the HIR bulb is extremely good. And when someone isn't bending you over and reaming you on cost, it would be peachy. > >>I have not mentioned any bulb I personally carry. Nor will I. I don't >>pay to advertise here. > > And I don't sell *anything*. I'm was looking for better lighting > for my M3. And I thought I'd share what I found. I have no monetary > interest in HIR bulbs or the people selling them... or any other > bulb or lighting source for that matter. > > I'm not a vendor. I am an enthusiast, and have been for a very > long time. > >>If what you want is the brightest quality bulb at a reasonable price, buy >>the Silverstars or Cool Blues. Both are terrific bulbs. >> >>If you want something comparable to the Sylvania's in performance with >>better warranties, and aggressive pricing, those can be found too. >> >>Lastly.... yes, my emails tend to be abrupt, almost always blunt and quite >>often rude. But you always know where I stand and I always tell the truth >>as I see it. > > "as I see it" - no comment. Well you are learning... :) > >>Since I import a coupe of million dollars worth of lighting products per >>year and travel extensively in Asia on a monthly basis to buy products, I >>thouht you might like the real story for your story. >>J'A'P > > I would like the "real story" but I don't see it here. It seems apparent > you aren't referring to the same product I am, or if you are, you > haven't actually looked at the data available. If I put it on a webpage and speak from a tower would it make me seem more believable? You are researching an article for Roundel from written sources. I go to the factories. I talk to the engineers. I put ZKWs, Hella's, DEPO's and DJ Auto's (Inpro) up on test stands and buy them. What the heck would I know from that? > > While I'm very impressed with the millions of dollars of products > you import - that doesn't make what you say right by default. Sorry. I'll read a few webpages. Hang on, I'll be right back........... Ok. I read your links. Except the broken one. Now I am an expert. LOLOLOL! > > This is the last of my responses to you. This has become a > non-productive discussion. > Well if you can't learn anything, I guess its unproductive.
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs - from Hans Batra
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 16:03:30 -0500 From: "Hans Batra" <hansbatra@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs Don and Jim, It's completely obvious each of you are talking about different products. Let's all just settle down and share a pitcher of beer. ;-) Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Eilenberger" <deilenberger@yahoo.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs > Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 15:53:18 -0500 > From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs > > Those are NOT the Toshiba 9011 or 9012 bulbs. There are some > sources selling standard halogen bulbs with the words "HIR" > attached to the packaging.. just like they like to use Xenon > and HID. You again have posted on something we were not discussing. > > The correct designation is 9011/HIR1 and 9012/HIR2 - as per NHTSA > Specification 108. > > At 03:32 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: > >Beats me Don. You obviously know better than me. Or the factory, > >apparently. This is from last night when I was reading the flare up on > >this thread again and thought I'd investigate. > > > >As for the last what, 7 years you have made a reputation spouting abouting > >things you don't do on a daily basis. I go to the factory and get you a > >quote and I'm wrong while you quote another savant. > > > >Whatever Don. When you do what I do on a daily basis, we'll talk again. > > > >Jim > > The above really is below what my opinion of you HAD been. It's apparent > you are now a vendor not an enthusiast. Damn shame since you were such > a great enthusiast. > > Don't expect to "talk again".. I see no need to. > > > _______D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________©1946________ > Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ - http://www.njsbmwr.org/ > '98 M3c/5, '03 525iT, '87 K75S > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:08:16 -0800 From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs Hang on, I'll tell the factory to quit making those pesky things. How dare they offer something you didn't know about :) Don, you do realize that the bulb factory and the base factory are separate and they will actually make a vendor (That would be me) anything I ask for? Do you know why the email said 500 pieces required? Read slowly, move your lips if you have to. They will put that bulb in any base you ask for. Ok, it won't match the industry spec. But it will be aligned perfectly. It will not need grinding. It will still have a factory warranty. This is one of the little things they do for people who buy things. Whichever guy who is 'importing' them can probably ask them to do it for him too. Just trying to save you a step there and get the thing done correctly. I'm a vendor and an enthusiast Don. Let's see, how exactly did I become so vendorish here? 1. I told you the actual cost of the product. 2. I told you how to get it built to spec instead of modifying it. 3. I told you I COULD NOT sell it to you 4. I encouraged people to buy even another product that I don't sell. Gee Don. You are trying to again sound like an expert to the n'th degree and I am sounding totally un-vendor'ish and more enthusiast all the time. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Eilenberger" <deilenberger@yahoo.com> To: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Cc: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 12:53 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: HIR headlight bulbs > Those are NOT the Toshiba 9011 or 9012 bulbs. There are some > sources selling standard halogen bulbs with the words "HIR" > attached to the packaging.. just like they like to use Xenon > and HID. You again have posted on something we were not discussing. > > The correct designation is 9011/HIR1 and 9012/HIR2 - as per NHTSA > Specification 108. > > At 03:32 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: >>Beats me Don. You obviously know better than me. Or the factory, >>apparently. This is from last night when I was reading the flare up on >>this thread again and thought I'd investigate. >> >>As for the last what, 7 years you have made a reputation spouting abouting >>things you don't do on a daily basis. I go to the factory and get you a >>quote and I'm wrong while you quote another savant. >> >>Whatever Don. When you do what I do on a daily basis, we'll talk again. >> >>Jim > > The above really is below what my opinion of you HAD been. It's apparent > you are now a vendor not an enthusiast. Damn shame since you were such > a great enthusiast. > > Don't expect to "talk again".. I see no need to. > > > _______D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________©1946________ > Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ - http://www.njsbmwr.org/ > '98 M3c/5, '03 525iT, '87 K75S > >
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P - from Neil Maller
Top
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:18:55 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P on 3/8/05 2:46 PM, "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> wrote: > Generally light bulbs also last a shorter time in BMWs which tend to run on > the high side on voltage. This gives BMW the ability to run thinner wire > for a given wattage. Watts = voltage x current. If you pump up the voltage > you can drop the current. Amperage heats up wires, not voltage. The end > result is that BMW can run smaller diameter wire. I don't see how. Bulb watts aren't somehow limited to their nominal value regardless of applied voltage. A bulb is a resistive load (although its resistance varies with temperature). If you apply higher voltage to it you get more current draw and greater light output, as well as more heat and shorter life expectancy. Using higher voltage, like the now abandoned 42V scheme, only reduces current if you also use loads rated for it, so unless BMW uses, say, special 13V bulbs instead of 12V then the smaller wire theory doesn't hold, err, electrons. > This saves weight and is cheaper to boot. Sometimes I've put the boot in with my M3, but it's only those new-fangled models you have to boot up! Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD!
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. HIR headlight bulbs - from Rich Dorffer
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:26:32 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: HIR headlight bulbs I have a fair amount of direct experience with the 9011/HIR1 and 9012/HIR2 bulbs that Don E. is referring to, they do put out a noticeable and measurable additional amount of light compared to quality 9005 & 9006 bulbs. I organized a group buy for them back in July, 2004 as I wanted to improve the lighting of my 1991 318is (I junked the sealed beams, retrofitted US ellipsoids, and then upgraded the bulbs to true Halogen Infrared Reflecting (HIR) bulbs). I was able to compare the HIRs with quality new halogens from side-to-side in my 318is (in my garage, on back roads, etc.) as I had installed HIRs in one side and halogens on the other side, pulled the fuses to run the sides independently, drove with them on the street back-to-back, etc. The HIRs were pretty impressive. I organized the group buy through Daniel Stern and I can vouch for most of what Don is talking about as I had done most of the same research back in 2004. I am also familiar with the other US source that Don noted for the bulbs and believe he is a reputable source (even though he tried to foil my group buy when he found out about it by matching the GB price and stealing the thread on the lists I was organizing it on as he had 1,000s of bulbs in stock). I am quite pleased with the HIR bulbs in my 1991 318is and also in my wife's Accord where beam control is quite good. I can't say the same for the US produced Sylvania Silverstars and "Cool Blues" which provided less light than quality new halogen bulbs and their life expectancy was very short (the Honda was going through them like Tic Tacs). I would never buy either of those again. I have also tried the Osram Silverstars and they were better than quality new halogen bulbs but no where near the HIRs in 9005/9006 applications. Again, my comments are with regards to true Halogen Infrared Reflecting 9011/HIR1 and 9012/HIR2 bulbs. If anyone has a source for these bulbs for less than $30 each, I would love to know about it. Regards, Rich
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. The J'A'Pness of Powell - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:34:39 -0800 From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: The J'A'Pness of Powell Ahhh, the good old days of flame wars. I must admit, I missed it. For those of you not here long enough to understand J'A'P, the 'A' is for asshole. Yes it's true. I am as sweet as pie. Helpful as can be. At least most of the time. I lend out tools, the use of my garage, even my truck and trailer to two a dead car home now and then from the track. I have never been too good at backing up when challenged on facts or integrity. Tell me I'm wrong about what I do with a superior attitude or insinuate that I'm blowing smoke and the 'A' comes out full force. I apologize. Although I think the board has been way too polite anyway :) I have to go do something productive now. So to sum up. 1. Jim is an asshole. 2. HIR bulbs are not as expensive as you would think. 3. Sylvania makes a nice bulb, so do other companies. 4. I'll tell you the truth as I know it from first hand experience. 5. Jim is an asshole. Bye
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P - from Jim Powell
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:37:09 -0800 From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P Neil, you repeated what I was saying. The bulbs are made to a spec and the BMW runs on the high side of it. More voltage, same resistance equals more current. More current equals more heat equals shorter life. I'm sorry if I was obtuse. We said the same thing. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Maller" <neil.maller@gte.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: [E36M3] Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P > Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 16:18:55 -0500 > From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> > Subject: Re: HIR bulbs and the J'A'P > > on 3/8/05 2:46 PM, "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> wrote: > >> Generally light bulbs also last a shorter time in BMWs which tend to run >> on >> the high side on voltage. This gives BMW the ability to run thinner wire >> for a given wattage. Watts = voltage x current. If you pump up the >> voltage >> you can drop the current. Amperage heats up wires, not voltage. The end >> result is that BMW can run smaller diameter wire. > > I don't see how. Bulb watts aren't somehow limited to their nominal value > regardless of applied voltage. A bulb is a resistive load (although its > resistance varies with temperature). If you apply higher voltage to it you > get more current draw and greater light output, as well as more heat and > shorter life expectancy. > > Using higher voltage, like the now abandoned 42V scheme, only reduces > current if you also use loads rated for it, so unless BMW uses, say, > special > 13V bulbs instead of 12V then the smaller wire theory doesn't hold, err, > electrons. > >> This saves weight and is cheaper to boot. > > Sometimes I've put the boot in with my M3, but it's only those new-fangled > models you have to boot up! > > Neil > Fort Wayne, IN > 96 M3 - Bastard child > 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic > 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell > 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD! > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. RE: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell - from Mel Silva
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 15:44:09 -0600 From: "Mel Silva" <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell Having this 'entertainment' delivered to my desktop has made my day seem MUCH shorter. Thanks guys, Mel -----Original Message----- From: Jim Powell [mailto:jsp98m3@apexcone.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 3:37 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:34:39 -0800 From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> Subject: The J'A'Pness of Powell Ahhh, the good old days of flame wars. I must admit, I missed it. For those of you not here long enough to understand J'A'P, the 'A' is for asshole.
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell - from Greg Cagle
Top
Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 13:46:02 -0800 From: Greg Cagle <gregc@gregcagle.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell You're not going to follow this up with another "adios mofos" are you? I for one would miss your input. - Greg Jim Powell wrote: > Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:34:39 -0800 > From: "Jim Powell" <jsp98m3@apexcone.com> > Subject: The J'A'Pness of Powell > > Ahhh, the good old days of flame wars. I must admit, I missed it. > > For those of you not here long enough to understand J'A'P, the 'A' is for asshole. > > Yes it's true. I am as sweet as pie. Helpful as can be. At least most of the time. I lend out tools, the use of my garage, even my truck and trailer to two a dead car home now and then from the track. > > I have never been too good at backing up when challenged on facts or integrity. Tell me I'm wrong about what I do with a superior attitude or insinuate that I'm blowing smoke and the 'A' comes out full force. > > I apologize. Although I think the board has been way too polite anyway :) > > I have to go do something productive now. > > So to sum up. > > 1. Jim is an asshole. > 2. HIR bulbs are not as expensive as you would think. > 3. Sylvania makes a nice bulb, so do other companies. > 4. I'll tell you the truth as I know it from first hand experience. > 5. Jim is an asshole. > > Bye > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > -- Greg Cagle gregc at gregcagle dot com
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell - from Mark Dadgar
Top
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 13:44:17 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] The J'A'Pness of Powell On Mar 8, 2005, at 1:36 PM, Jim Powell wrote: > I have never been too good at backing up when challenged on facts or > integrity. Tell me I'm wrong about what I do with a superior attitude > or insinuate that I'm blowing smoke and the 'A' comes out full force. You're wrong about big brakes reducing stopping distances. <ducking> - Mark "Hey, is that a snake? Lemme poke something in there ... " Dadgar ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar