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#1. Re: Helmets - from Neil Maller
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:31:40 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Helmets on 3/21/05 4:00 PM, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > Not to kick off a firestorm or anything here but the SCCA has issued a > bulletin for this season recommending that ONLY open-faced helmets be > used in airbag cars due to instances of serious injuries to the jaw and > neck. > > I own and have always used a closed face helmet based upon exactly the > opposite advice given years ago. It seems to me that if accurate, its > the best of both worlds as open faced helmets are lighter and cheaper. > Anybody got a scientific argument for/against this one (I know you got > opinions ;)? > > http://www.wdcr-scca.org/pdfs/tech_AirbagAdvisory.pdf Note the the SCCA advisory is based on a six year old opinion from the FIA that says "that the risk of fractures to the jaw [from airbag deployment] cannot be ruled out." Newsflash: I can't "rule out" that your car may be struck by a meteorite while on the track. My challenge to the SCCA would be to show us the evidence that this poses an actual risk. I'd guess that in this six year period quite a few cars have had an airbag deployment on track. Matter of fact I've seen a couple myself. The overwhelming majority of drivers wear full face helmets. So where are all those jaw injuries? Yep, we got opinions. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD!
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#2. RE: [E36M3] E46 or E36 - from Low, Roan
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:30:34 -0600 From: "Low, Roan" <Roan.Low@Kellogg.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] E46 or E36 That's nuts. I have 2 different salesmen who are prepared to sell me one for substantially less than MSRP. If anyone want there names, please let me know. Thank you for all the opinions, I loved both my previous E36 M3's, and although I have spent some seat time in the E46, I haven't 'lived' with one to know whether or not I will feel the same about it. Given the +- $40K price difference, I just don't think that the E46 is going to give me $40K more driving pleasure. Plus there is no E46M3 list like this one. Roan. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Dadgar [mailto:mark@pdc-racing.net] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 3:40 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 There's also some vicious markup going on with the Comp package cars. BMW of SF had a one month ago with a $71K sticker (including $5K dealer markup). I kid you not. - Mark
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#3. Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 - from Gaudio, Stefano
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:03:17 -0500 From: "Gaudio, Stefano" <Stefano.Gaudio@NERA.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 Well, asking an E36 list if the E36 M3 is better than a E46 makes me think you already made a decision and just need reassurance ;-) In any case I'll still put in my 2 cents since I got 5 mins... It all depends on what you care for and what you are going to use it for. I love my E36 M3 coupe but in stock form it is no way as fast as a E46 M3, specially on a track where the E46 can stretch it's legs. For my taste e36 is such a sweet handling car, the e46 has more power but being heavier and wider it feels way less tossable (SURPRISE SURPRISE!!!) Like someone else mentioned the e36 is 6 years old and that means you'll potentially have to fix a lot more things than on a e46. But obviously you'll have probably about $15K laying around if you get the e36 which means free repairs for a pretty long while :) On a different note, you'll be much more safe on the street in a e46 than a e36 specially in a side crash ( HPS does make a huge difference when the moronic SUV runs the light right into your driver's door - hopefully not ) My 5 mins are up (I guess I type slowly ;-) The subject requires a much lengthier discussion but whatever is your choice rest assure that neither car is bad so you'll be happy in both, just in a different way. Stefano '98 M3 coupe that fits me just fine. _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing, disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. _____________________________________________________________
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: Helmets - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:14:32 -0800 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Helmets Disable airbag on track? Neil Maller wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:31:40 -0500 >From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> >Subject: Re: Helmets > >on 3/21/05 4:00 PM, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > > > >>Not to kick off a firestorm or anything here but the SCCA has issued a >>bulletin for this season recommending that ONLY open-faced helmets be >>used in airbag cars due to instances of serious injuries to the jaw and >>neck. >> >>I own and have always used a closed face helmet based upon exactly the >>opposite advice given years ago. It seems to me that if accurate, its >>the best of both worlds as open faced helmets are lighter and cheaper. >>Anybody got a scientific argument for/against this one (I know you got >>opinions ;)? >> >>http://www.wdcr-scca.org/pdfs/tech_AirbagAdvisory.pdf >> >> -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." 1918, Theodore Roosevelt
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#5. Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 - from Raza Uddin
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:16:50 -0800 From: Raza Uddin <raza.uddin@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:40:24 -0600, Low, Roan <Roan.Low@kellogg.com> wrote: > I haven't 'lived' with one to know whether or not I will feel the same about it. Well, you won't know until you've tried it, will you? :) > Given the +- $40K price difference, I just don't think that the E46 is going > to give me $40K more driving pleasure. Is this the difference between a CP E46 compared to the E36 or a regular E46 M3? How much of a deal are your getting on this E36? And if you can order a new one, can't you get a CP coupe for little or no money over MSRP? Haven driven both, and lived with 2 E36s, I would prefer the E46. On track, performance is much greater. With a little strategic weight reduction, you would be hard pressed to find a properly driven E46 M3 be "shown" up by any street E36. Plus you get the proper engine and the option of SMG. On a more practical side, I think the E46 is a much better DD. It is roomier and with NAV and all the other modern goodies like Xenons, I think it would be a more pleasurable experience. In addition, with this new car, you wouldn't have to worry about maintence. This would be a major consideration if I was thinking about a new vs. old car. As much as I love my car, and while I don't plan on replacing it anytime soon, as soon as I am financially able to get into an E46 (preferably am Interlagos CP Coupe mmmmm drool..) I will. > Plus there is no E46M3 list like this one. That is true. I pity all my other car friends who have to deal with often immature Internet forums to get real information. I think we are spoiled. Anyway, that's my opinion. Best of luck on the decision. Drive Safely, Raza
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#6. Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:16:46 -0800 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 Now, that's a good point. You probably will not get $40K more driving pleasure. Besides even with the extra 80 or so horses; when do you get to use them? Kent Low, Roan wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:30:34 -0600 >From: "Low, Roan" <Roan.Low@Kellogg.com> >Subject: RE: [E36M3] E46 or E36 > >That's nuts. I have 2 different salesmen who are prepared to sell me one >for substantially less than MSRP. If anyone want there names, please let me >know. > >Thank you for all the opinions, I loved both my previous E36 M3's, and >although I have spent some seat time in the E46, I haven't 'lived' with one >to know whether or not I will feel the same about it. > >Given the +- $40K price difference, I just don't think that the E46 is going >to give me $40K more driving pleasure. > >Plus there is no E46M3 list like this one. > >Roan. > > -- "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." 1918, Theodore Roosevelt
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: Helmets - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:00:13 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Helmets On Mar 21, 2005, at 3:20 PM, Kent L. Shephard wrote: > Disable airbag on track? > Easy and cheap. Makes way too much sense for anyone to actually do it. :) - Mark
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#8. RE: E46 or E36 - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:02:59 -0800 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: E46 or E36 Currently, the basic E36 chassis design is around 14 years old and my 99 E36M3, the last year of production, was 8 an year old chassis at the time of production. The E46M3 engine problems will scare many people off, including myself, and the price may reflect that in the near future as less capable people begin to pick them up on the used car market and abuse them. KLBurgess -------------------- 8 -------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 13:53:01 -0800 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E46 or E36 Hi, But, it's still a six year old car. I like my E36 ('97) and I've had other BMW's. My favorite was an E30 M3. Felt better than the E36, but when I sold it, it was a 16 year old car. Everyone has different reasons for wanting a particular car. I like the E46 and even considered buying one. But the engine problems scare me off because I'll be buying used. Anyway, It's a tough decision. I should have such problems. Kent
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#9. RE: [E36M3] - from dhogg
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:04:59 -0500 From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Dave, You're going to learn how much you don't know. Focus, listen and enjoy it! One small detail: "Going Faster" is the Skip Barber Racing School manual, not the Brand X manual. We Skippy School grads get touchy about that stuff. Dave Hogg (Hey, when you're not that fast you have to take pride in something!)
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#10. RE: [E36M3] - from Dave DeBuhr
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Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:07:27 -0800 From: "Dave DeBuhr" <debuhr@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sorry, man. I had a 50/50 chance and didn't feel like lookin' for the book. I thought about it for a second and couldn't remember so took a SWAG. Good book though. No offense intended! -----Original Message----- One small detail: "Going Faster" is the Skip Barber Racing School manual, not the Brand X manual. We Skippy School grads get touchy about that stuff. Dave Hogg (Hey, when you're not that fast you have to take pride in something!)