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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Don Eilenberger
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:18:02 -0400 From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Well, Chester filled us in: >It was basically the project from hell. The gutting of the CDV was pretty >straight forward. At the same time, Don wanted to replace the clutch hose >(which I forgot to bill him for..hahaha) but that wasn't a problem. Then when >it came time to bleed, since Mo is a bit younger than Don, I thought it would >be easier for him to jump into the car while it was on a lift. Mo is probably QUITE a bit younger than Don :-) >Since we ran into an issue a long time ago on Wayne's car where he pushed >hard on the clutch pedal and the pin that secures the master cylinder >pushrod eyelet snapped, I >told Mo to go real easy. On the E46, the pin that goes through the clutch >pedal is plastic. On the E36, it's metal. Anyway, Mo claims he went easy >but being on the bottom of the car watching the hose pressurize real >quickly, I don't think he was. There was also a rather bad crack noise where Mo said "What was that?" I sort of thought at this point we had a problem. I think I know what happened and why. Mo had to pull the pedal up off the floor. When there is no hydraulic pressure pushing the pedal out from the floor - the over-center helper spring has two positions it wants the pedal at.. all the way at the top of travel, and all the way at the bottom. As soon as it goes over-center with no back-pressure in the master-cylinder it will head for the clutch-stop. This means you have to use your toe to lift it back up if you're sitting in the seat doing this. And using your toe - it is not unimaginable that one could pull up too far. I think that's what happened and I think that is what cracked the eyelet molded on the master-cylinder rod. >Anyway, with the hydraulics bled, I proceeded to put the slave cylinder >back in being mindful to be careful and not drop the pin into >the tranny. I got it on, then attempted to thread on a nut but it dropped. I >pulled the slave just a bit to see if I could get the nut but then I heard >this >clunk and my heart sank. Not a problem...I've dropped a tranny before. I've never seen anyone quite as calm as Chester was when this happened. It was basically a no-problem sort of thing. I was IMPRESSED (Chester, dunno what you do - but I think we want you at the big button that ends the world.. composure under stress was very impressive. Didn't even hear an "Ah sh*t..") Bitto snip.. >But we had the tranny off in 1 hour 20 minutes. Also discovered that >the person who did the clutch job a few weeks ago really liked >grease...greased >EVERYTHING! GO FREEDMAN TIRE SERVICE! Well - it looks like they did antiseize the exhaust bolts/nuts, which was a good thing. And they didn't skimp on materials (always looking for the bright side of things!) >So after getting the tranny back on and attaching the slave cylinder, I >wandered to the cabin of the car to see if we had clutch pedal action. Tis >when I saw two broken halves of an eyelet. Another heart sinking moment.... >Some epoxy and zip ties and another hour detour and we had completed Don's >car. > Sorry Don....it really should have taken 20 minutes. Ugh. Yeah - that wasn't a good moment, but the epoxy and tie-wrap made it well enough for me to drive it home (about 60 miles away..) More snippage.. >Chester Footnote: I have a great neighbor of 30 years now who used to be a mechanic, owned his own shop and taught high-school and technical school auto mechanics. He's about 85 or so now, but still walks the dog every night, and will stop by to chat if the garage door is open. He stopped last night as I was sticking out of the under-dash area. He asked what happened.. I said "Well, we were just trying to modify one little thing.." and he started laughing.. he said "Yup - one little 'improvement' can lead to a world of hurting.." He'd been there done that more than once. I look at it as a learning experience. I learned how to drop the tranny on an E36 (not hugely different than the last Volvo tranny I swapped about 20 years ago.) I learned if that's gonna happen again on this car I should buy new reverse-torx bolts, mine are getting chewed up. I got to meet Chester and learned how cool he is under pressure. All around - it was almost a positive experience, and Chester IS invited for dinner at the NJ shore any time he wants to come down.. (and lemme know how much the hose was - I'll PayPal you..) Best,
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Don Eilenberger
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:22:21 -0400 From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Jeremy said: >It was my understanding that the clutch mechanism has 3 springs. 2 are >assist springs that help during compression of the pedal and 1 is a return >spring. This will result in an unbled pedal being pulled to the floor after >a threshold in travel is reached. Actually - only the one spring. The Z series used the same pedal and mount assembly and use a simple return spring (Ron Styger had some info on putting that setup on an M3 I believe). The one spring is an over-center design that WILL result in the pedal being pulled to the floor after the center is passed. >Now the fun one is being under the car and using a kludge setup to bleed the >slave. Your buddy pumps the clutch 2 times in a row when the clamp slips >and you end up covered in ATE SuperBlue. Of course the slave was >reassembled and (knock on wood) all has been well since. I hate when that happens.. >Jeremy >97 M3 _______D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________©1946________ Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ - http://www.njsbmwr.org/ '98 M3c/5, '03 525iT, '87 K75S
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Just a random 2 cents that popped into my head while I read this little "drama" :-) 1. Two Words - pressure bleeder :-) (Most of you track/autox guys & gals have a portable air tank, right? Buy some air hose, fittings and the Brake Reservoir Cap Adapter from Steve D'G at The Ultimate Garage, and you're set. I like this set up 'cause I use just the amount of fluid needed to bleed or flush. YMMV. I'll be happy to provide details/pictures of my set-up if anyone's interested.) B. The clutch slave cylinder can be bleed in situ, eliminating the risk of dropping the rod into the transmission. Both of my local mechanics suggested this, and I've not had a problem. Like I said, just my 2 cents. IMO. YMMV. PDCC. :-) Jim Bassett - generally works on his cars by himself 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#4. Need an A/C pulley - from geoff atkinson
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:39:23 -0400 From: "geoff atkinson" <pskalc@hotmail.com> Subject: Need an A/C pulley Hi All, It looks like I need the A/C pulley that bolts to the front of the crank pulley... Any of you racers out there have one taking up space? I just figured I'd ask before going to the dealer... And, if any of you will be at Lime Rock on the 22nd (Friday) I can get it from you there. Thank you. -Geoff Atkinson '95 heater-mobile (street/track) '89 M3 puzzle etc.
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:51:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Haha. Don actually brought his pressure bleeder and I also had one on had from Wayne's plethora or tools. I, however, don't like pressure bleeding... Hahaha. Especially not the ones where you pump air through the brake fluid. About bleeding the slave in place, the nipple isn't at the highest point. Call me a stickler for following BMW's outlined procedure...and since I had the BMW tool....might as well, right? Chester --- Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > 1. Two Words - pressure bleeder :-) (Most of you track/autox guys & gals > have a portable air tank, right? Buy some air hose, fittings and the Brake > Reservoir Cap Adapter from Steve D'G at The Ultimate Garage, and you're > set. I like this set up 'cause I use just the amount of fluid needed to > bleed or flush. YMMV. I'll be happy to provide details/pictures of my > set-up if anyone's interested.) > > B. The clutch slave cylinder can be bleed in situ, eliminating the risk of > dropping the rod into the transmission. Both of my local mechanics > suggested this, and I've not had a problem.
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Walter J
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:58:51 -0400 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Jim Bassett wrote: >1. Two Words - pressure bleeder > No kidding... even the $35 gouging I took on a PTFE bottle with some hose and a cap seems cheap compared to the # of times I've bled my brakes and clutch all alone in my garage on the evening before a track event sans drama.
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:14:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. On Wed, April 20, 2005 11:51 am, Chester Wong said: > Especially not the ones where you pump air through the brake > fluid. Well, I'm no fluid-ologist <g>, but it seems that pressure bleeding isn't pumping air THROUGH the fluid, but rather increasing the existing pressure ON TOP of the fluid. In any event, I've had no problems doing pressure bleeding for ~8 years. > About bleeding the slave in place, the nipple isn't at the highest point. Not a problem when pressure bleeding. OK, I think the horse is well and truly dead :-) > Call > me a stickler for following BMW's outlined procedure... BMW's, or Bentley's? Not the same thing, and IIRC, this is one of the few times I've deviated from a procedure in the Bentley manual. > and since I had the > BMW > tool....might as well, right? And see where you got you? :-) Cheers, Jim Bassett
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 12:18:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. --- Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > On Wed, April 20, 2005 11:51 am, Chester Wong said: > > Especially not the ones where you pump air through the brake > > fluid. > > Well, I'm no fluid-ologist <g>, but it seems that pressure bleeding isn't > pumping air THROUGH the fluid, but rather increasing the existing pressure > ON TOP of the fluid. I guess it depends on the type of pressure bleeder aparatus you have. I have the Steve D one collecting dust (if anyone wants to buy it off me, shoot me an e-mail). This particular one forces the air through the brake fluid to pressurize the container. I once experimented and allowed the fluid to go through to the cap and I looked at the fluid...lots of tiny bubbles suspended in the fluid from forcing it through the fluid. > > Call > > me a stickler for following BMW's outlined procedure... > > BMW's, or Bentley's? Not the same thing, and IIRC, this is one of the few > times I've deviated from a procedure in the Bentley manual. BMW's TIS. > > and since I had the > > BMW > > tool....might as well, right? > > And see where you got you? :-) Some good exercise....nothing like a dropping a tranny to start off the season ;) Chester
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Road Atlanta Race (was New Data System) - from FS
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:44:01 -0400 From: "FS" <freestat@stny.rr.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Road Atlanta Race (was New Data System) Hi James, (switching topics) I finally had a chance to catch the World Challenge race on SPEED last night; what caused a Bimmerworld car (I can't remember who was driving) to hop/spin mid-race at Road Atlanta? Bill -------------------- 4 -------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:36:04 -0400 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: New Data System I just picked up a new data product that will be amazing for driver training and improvement. It installs in minutes, is easy to use, has lots of good data, including GPS and the ability to compare lines around the track. And then you can pull it from your car, put it in a friends, and do a back to back comparison. Price will be super reasonable, around the $1,000 range. More info later but I was super excited to find it and thought I would share now. I preach it all the time - there is nothing like data to really make you a better driver - spend the money on it now instead of the next go-fast goody and you will be way better off in the long run. James
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. - from K.C. Boyce
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Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:53:41 -0400 From: "K.C. Boyce" <k_boyce@e30eta.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Clutch Master Cylinder, CDV, etc. Huh? I have a Steve D. cap with a quick-connect fitting on top that accepts pressure from a compressor. Or, in my case, a kluged garden sprayer... :-) Did he make several varieties available? I'd agree with Chester's experience not to force air through the brake fluid while bleeding! KC Boyce '97 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 3:26 PM <snip> I have the Steve D one collecting dust (if anyone wants to buy it off me, shoot me an e-mail). This particular one forces the air through the brake fluid to pressurize the container. I once experimented and allowed the fluid to go through to the cap and I looked at the fluid...lots of tiny bubbles suspended in the fluid from forcing it through the fluid.