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#1. Re: Was shifters...now preventing 'money shift' - from Don Eilenberger
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:09:54 -0400 From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Was shifters...now preventing 'money shift' Neil answered me with: >From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> >Subject: Re: Was shifters...now preventing 'money shift' > >on 5/12/05 8:25 AM, Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > VERY interesting - wonder where it attaches. > >To unused motor mount holes on the block below the exhaust manifold. The >outer end bracket is welded to the frame rail nearby. Not an idea location - the force will be much greater given the shorter lever arm from the rotational center.. > > Ideally - I would think some sort of movement restriction at the top of the > > engine would be idea... that is where the most movement will be seen > since it > > is furthest away from the center of rotation (which would be around the > > crankshaft/transmission/driveshaft axis.) > >Yes, exactly. Unfortunately the E36 engine compartment is fairly densely >packed, so coming up with a top end solution is tougher without making a >more expensive or elaborately tooled support like the nice Volvo bracket you >referenced. I'm thinking along the lines of something to where the front engine lifting hook fastens - only problem would be the other end. Another possibility might be the support bracket for the intake manifold and a strut-brace. >The BW stay resembles an adjustable front swaybar link plus a couple of >simple welded (or not...) steel brackets. I think it's really intended for >racing or serious track use with a limited market potential, so elaborate >design and tooling probably was avoided; its mounting location also isn't >optimal. Ah - and it has no "give" in it. Not a good idea for regular use since something is gonna fatigue and give out sooner or later (in this case it sounds like sooner.) >I also think the BW stay would have been better if, again like the Volvo >part, it had included a resilient element at one end. If/when I reinstall >mine I'll probably make this modification myself. I'd like to introduce a >rubber or poly busing at the outer end. I'm not a fan of hard mounting stuff >that vibrates; seems like a recipe for something to crack. Indeed. There has to be some give unless you're planning on becoming friendly with a welder. >Neil I passed the idea on to one of the aftermarket vendors. Haven't heard back yet - I know I'd be interested in one if it was within reason for cost (less than $300 or so..) and it did what I suspect it might. I'll have to give the M3 an eyeball tonight - I agree - it is rather densely packed under hood (especially compared to the 5 series..) Best, _______D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________©1946________ Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ - http://www.njsbmwr.org/ '98 M3c/5, '03 525iT, '87 K75S
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#2. [E36M3] Brake Problems... - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:26:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: [E36M3] Brake Problems... Som wrote > // > // My brake bleed techniques were as follows: > // > // 1st Attempt: Filled pressure bleeder, attached to fluid reservoir, > // pumped to > // 15 psi, went to each wheel (attached the bleed hose, > opened bleed valve, > // let > // run for about 15 seconds *after* the last air bubble I > saw, closed bleed > // valve), unscrewed pressure bleeder from bottle (there was > no button), > // trying > // to slosh out some extra fluid (but not much, still a tad > over max line), > // replaced reservoir cap. > // > // 2nd Attempt: Same as first. > // > // 3rd Attempt: Same as first, except this time had a 2nd > person in the > // car. > // The bleed procedure was like this: press brake -- open > valve -- close > // valve -- > // release brake. Did this 3 times at each wheel. > // > // 4th Attempt: Same as first, except this time the brake pressing > // procedure > // went like this: press brake -- open valve -- press brake > 10 times -- on > // last > // press, closed bleeder before brake was released. Jeremy wrote > > Try doing a manual bleed without the pressure bleeder. Umm, I am pretty sure that is what he was doing on the third and fourth attempts. Jamie wrote > > Here we go again, didn't we just beat this one to death a couple of > weeks ago (or was that another list). Nope, this is where we did it. I still don't believe that anyone established any evidence that the pressure bleeder aerates the fluid and the fluid remains aerated with small bubbles carrying them in suspense up the tube and down into the reservoir where it is pulled into the brake system (all the while, little bubbles suspended in the fluid). Regards, Rich
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Brake Problems... - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 11:58:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Problems... On Wed, May 11, 2005 9:36 pm, Som Naderi said: > I've got some problems with my brakes, and I'm thinking I'm not going to > have > them ready by Thunderhill this weekend -- which really really bums me out. > > Last weekend I swapped out my rotors/pads/brake lines (slotted rotors, HP+ > pads, stainless steel lines). I have since flushed the brakes 4 times and > I: I'm not familiar with the HP+ pads, but are you sure you bedded them in properly? Not-quite-bedded-in pads will exhibit a "spongy" pedal. > 3rd Attempt: Same as first, except this time had a 2nd person in the car. > The bleed procedure was like this: press brake -- open valve -- close > valve -- > release brake. Did this 3 times at each wheel. I've very rarely done the classic "two-person" bleed, but this does NOT sound correct. 1. Open bleed screw. 2. Press down and HOLD brake pedal. 3. Close bleed screw. 4. Release brake pedal. 5. Repeat as necessary. > 4th Attempt: Same as first, except this time the brake pressing procedure > went like this: press brake -- open valve -- press brake 10 times -- on > last > press, closed bleeder before brake was released. You realize that during those "press brake 10 times" with the bleed screw open you've now sucked in a HUGE amount of air into the system? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're describing. > Between each attempt I drove the car and tried several hard, > ABS-activating > brakes. Which is fine if you're trying to get fluid (and any air) circulating out of the ABS pump. But doing this on non-bedded-in pads may compromise the bedding process. Do one thing at a time. Just about everytime I change pads/rotors on the race car, I also bleed the fluid. Follow the bed-in procedure (Hawk Blues) - done. If you want to REALLY be sure, then after the pads are bedded, then go do the ABS-activated bleeding. And BTW, I almost NEVER activate the ABS then re-bleed, and so far have had no problems with braking/pedal feel/etc <knocking on wood for upcoming back-to-back races :-)>. 7+ years, 2 cars, well over 100 track days. Bleeding brakes isn't rocket science :-) You're pushing fluid from one end of the system out the other, in such a manner as to not (re)introduce air into the system in the process. Hope that helps, and that you make it to THill this weekend. Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#4. RE: Brake Problems...and Motive devise - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 12:14:40 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Brake Problems...and Motive devise Additionally, place a block of wood on the floor under the brake pedal as you don't want the MC piston to travel any farther in the piston cylinder with the bleed screw open that it would if the bleed screw is closed. If it does travel farther into the bore the piston seal could be damaged by any piston bore surface imperfections caused by corrosion on the 'unused' portion of the bore. If it is damaged then you will have soft pedal issues cured only by replacing the MC. Yes this was beat to near death but has come back - My motive Brake Pressure Bleeder manual pump pressurizing devise pressure outlet valve can be submersed in BF in the pressure vessel when t edevise contains even only a partial liter of fluid. I have seen bubbles in the volume of fluid within the vessel after pressurizing the devise. However the smallish vertical feed tube connected to the larger diameter big-loop attach tube does a great job of eliminating any residual bubbles from the fluid as the fluid passed into the MC fluid reservoir from the pressurized fluid supply vessel, IMHO. KLBurgess 99 M3/2 that used to have an irritatingly spongy pedal till I replaced a partially seized front caliper. -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 13:20:17 -0400 From: "Jeremy Conners" <jeremy.conners@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Brake Problems... Som, Try doing a manual bleed without the pressure bleeder. This will rule out the bleeder as a possible culprit. Just keep the reservoir full and you'll have no problems. I would have a second person help you to do the pedal pump/open-close procedure. Start with the right rear (RR) followed by LR, RF, LF. I would use 15 pedal pumps/open-close for the each rear and 10 for each front. You must make sure that the reservoir does not empty, so be cautious otherwise you'll need to start over. Robert was incorrect in his statement about ABS not moving fluid. The Teves mkIV system has an open loop return path to the m/c reservoir. Any air bubbles trapped in the ABS HCU will be returned to the m/c reservoir or released into the wheel circuits when the ABS/TCS cycles a few times. After the bleed procedure above, you could drive the car, perform ABS stops, perform TCS launches, then re-bleed the car. If you still have a spongy pedal, it might be the case that your m/c seals are failing. Best regards, Jeremy
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#5. Re: [E36M3] RE: Brake Problems...and Motive devise - from Carey Probst
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 15:30:41 -0400 From: Carey Probst <hcprobst@alum.mit.edu> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Brake Problems...and Motive devise Well, I have the HMSMotorsport pressure bleeder which uses a compressed air source, spare tire, compressor tank, etc. It does not bubble air through the fluid so there is no problem with bubbles in the line. A bit pricey but the HMS service and support was fantastic when I developed a small fluid leak in the pressure cap after 5 years of use. Carey Burgess, Kim L wrote: >Yes this was beat to near death but has come back - My motive Brake >Pressure Bleeder manual pump pressurizing devise pressure outlet valve >can be submersed in BF in the pressure vessel when t edevise contains >even only a partial liter of fluid. I have seen bubbles in the volume of >fluid within the vessel after pressurizing the devise. However the >smallish vertical feed tube connected to the larger diameter big-loop >attach tube does a great job of eliminating any residual bubbles from >the fluid as the fluid passed into the MC fluid reservoir from the >pressurized fluid supply vessel, IMHO. > > >
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#6. Re: windshield/insurance co advice needed - from Hunt Hodgetts
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Hunt Hodgetts <hhodgetts@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: windshield/insurance co advice needed I had the windshield in my M3 replaced a few years ago by a State Farm authorized installer. While they were doing the installation, I asked the technician, who claimed to have 10+ year experience installing windshields, about the "factory windshield vs aftermarket winshield" issue. His answer was that there are only two companies in the world producing auto winshield glass and that both auto manufacturer's and aftermarket brands purchase their windshields from these same two sources. So whether you buy factory or aftermarket glass, you're getting the same product made on the same assembly line. Does anyone know for sure if this guy was bullshitting me or is there any truth to the story?
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Brake Problems... - from Som Naderi
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 14:11:35 -0800 From: "Som Naderi" <som@dimensionracing.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Problems... On Thu, 12 May 2005 11:58:32 -0700 (PDT), Jim Bassett wrote > On Wed, May 11, 2005 9:36 pm, Som Naderi said: > > I've got some problems with my brakes, and I'm thinking I'm not going to > > have > > them ready by Thunderhill this weekend -- which really really bums me out. > > > > Last weekend I swapped out my rotors/pads/brake lines (slotted rotors, HP+ > > pads, stainless steel lines). I have since flushed the brakes 4 times and > > I: > > I'm not familiar with the HP+ pads, but are you sure you bedded them > in properly? Not-quite-bedded-in pads will exhibit a "spongy" pedal. > > > 3rd Attempt: Same as first, except this time had a 2nd person in the car. > > The bleed procedure was like this: press brake -- open valve -- close > > valve -- > > release brake. Did this 3 times at each wheel. > > I've very rarely done the classic "two-person" bleed, but this does NOT > sound correct. > > 1. Open bleed screw. > 2. Press down and HOLD brake pedal. > 3. Close bleed screw. > 4. Release brake pedal. > 5. Repeat as necessary. The only difference was that, for that run, 1 and 2 were swapped -- which I don't think makes it much different since the brake fluid came gushing out when I opened the bleed screw. I closed the screw before the brake was released. > > 4th Attempt: Same as first, except this time the brake pressing procedure > > went like this: press brake -- open valve -- press brake 10 times -- on > > last > > press, closed bleeder before brake was released. > > You realize that during those "press brake 10 times" with the bleed screw > open you've now sucked in a HUGE amount of air into the system? > Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're describing. Not really... I actually got these instructions from the Bentley. I was reluctant to try them because of what you just said -- I was worried about getting air in the lines. But I had a clear 18" hose coming out of the bleeder screw where I could see all the blue brake fluid coming out. When the brake pedal was pressed 10 times, the flow never reversed. I believe this has to do with the fact that I had the pressure bleeder hooked up. Without the 15 psi on the reservoir, I think there definitely would have been a reversal of flow. > > Between each attempt I drove the car and tried several hard, > > ABS-activating > > brakes. > > Which is fine if you're trying to get fluid (and any air) > circulating out of the ABS pump. But doing this on non-bedded-in > pads may compromise the bedding process. Do one thing at a time. > Just about everytime I change pads/rotors on the race car, I also > bleed the fluid. Follow the bed-in procedure (Hawk Blues) - done. If > you want to REALLY be sure, then after the pads are bedded, then go > do the ABS-activated bleeding. You're absolutely right. After the first attempt, I wasn't trying to activate the ABS for bleeding/purging purposes, I was just following the instructions that came with the HP+. They said (and I'm doing this off memory, I don't have the paper in front of me so I may be a bit off) to do 5 or 6 "moderate" stops from 30, and 3 or 4 "hard" stops from 40-45 (or something to that effect). Then wait 15 minutes for them to cool off. Which is exactly what I did... except during the 40mph hard stops, the ABS engaged violently. It was after the 2nd attempt that I went out purely for cycling the ABS. > And BTW, I almost NEVER activate the ABS then re-bleed, and so far have > had no problems with braking/pedal feel/etc <knocking on wood for upcoming > back-to-back races :-)>. 7+ years, 2 cars, well over 100 track days. > > Bleeding brakes isn't rocket science :-) You're pushing fluid from > one end of the system out the other, in such a manner as to not (re) > introduce air into the system in the process. > > Hope that helps, and that you make it to THill this weekend. > > Jim Bassett > 1998 M3/4 > 1993 325is #44 JP Well, in the interest of getting these brakes working, I took the car to Apex Engineering (Apex Motorsports) here in San Diego (great guys, highly recommended) to have them bleed the brakes. They just called me up 20 minutes ago and said my car now stops like a madman (ie, the brakes have been flushed and work great now). I still don't know what I was doing wrong. At one point I had this speculation: when I attach the pressure bleeder cap to the reservoir, there's a good amount of air in the clear hose leading from the bottle to the cap. As I start pumping the pressure bleeder, I thought maybe I was forcing this air into the system. I've asked one person about this theory who says he's pretty sure that wouldn't happen. Can someone verify this? Also, when I asked the Apex guys how they bleed the brakes, they said they did it the same way I did except they only used the pressure bleeder for pressure -- they didn't put fluid in the bottle (similar to the way Jay suggested). Not trying to rehash the old debate, because there very well may be variables here I don't know about, but that's my understanding. I really wish I knew what my problem was so I could save myself the cash next time. Oh well. At least I'll be ready for Thunderhill! White. #00. Parked near the med-building. Will run either group 3 or group 4 depending on my mood. :) Thanks to everyone for their contribution to helping me with this problem! Jay, Jim, Jeremy, Jamie, and the non-J-named guy, Robert. Not that this discussion needs to stop... there is still the mystery of what-the-heck Som did wrong. Just wanted to say I really really appreciate the help! - Som
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#8. Vanos Troubleshooting - from Matt Weimer
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 18:17:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Weimer <mjweimer@yahoo.com> Subject: Vanos Troubleshooting Group, I think there may be a problem with the Vanos unit on my 111k mi. '95 M3. While I was checking the fan clutch several days ago I revved the motor from idle to ~2k and heard a terrible noise from the top end. The noise is most definitely at the very top and front of the motor and does not occur at idle. Is this the symptom of a bad Vanos solenoid or bad Vanos unit? Are there any good online resources to help with this diagnosis? Any wisdom is greatly appreciated. Matt Weimer Hoosier Chapter Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
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#9. Air bubbles throught bleeder - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:01:55 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Air bubbles throught bleeder Interesting topic. I noticed this problem several times on my previous race car, a JS E30 M3. And by several times I mean during one particular attempt to bleed, not over and over again. What I found to be the problem was not getting a good seal between the cap and the reservoir. Once I dealt with that I never saw bubbles again, never have on my E36. I have the Motive pressure bleeder with a really old Steve D'G aluminum cap. BTW, I'm no chemist/fluid analyst but how the hell can less that 2atm of pressure force air bubbles through fluid? I didn't ace chemistry or fluid dynamics but even I know that's not possible. There's a leak in the system somewhere. Jack Money #86 CM M3 Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Air bubbles throught bleeder - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 12 May 2005 21:42:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Air bubbles throught bleeder --- Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> wrote: > BTW, I'm no chemist/fluid analyst but how the hell can less that 2atm of > pressure force air bubbles through fluid? I didn't ace chemistry or fluid > dynamics but even I know that's not possible. There's a leak in the system > somewhere. Hmmm...I'm amazed at the difficulty people have imagining what I mean. Put plainly....remember back to the days when you were a kid drinking milk through a straw. Then you'd start to blow air into the straw while the end of it was submersed in the milk. What did you get? Bubbles! ...and some scolding from your parents :) Now at least with my old Steve D bugsprayer, the outlet of the pumping mechanism was under the brake fluid. One remedy would be to cut the top off a 1 liter bottle or something and put the pump mechanism in that as you screw it in so that the air doesn't touch the brake fluid. It's my understanding that some other pressure bleeder models have the outlet above the brake fluid. If you have that, good for you. If you have the type that you can hear like you farting while sitting in the bathtub when it's filled with water as you pump the handle to pressurize the canister, then you have something similar to my setup. It's my though that every stroke would forcibly push air into the fluid and cause micro bubbles that take a while to float to the top than bigger versions. When I connected everything other than the cap and let the fluid run out the end, I saw tiny bubbles....I mean, really tiny. But let's let this bloody horse die in peace. Chester