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#1. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Andy Radin
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 10:49:47 -0700 From: "Andy Radin" <fourfa@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel I've had an oil pressure gauge in my E36 M3 for years. Normal behavior on my car is 20psi at cold idle, 5 psi at hot idle, 59 psi max (regulated by a bypass valve so same cold or hot). So that part is normal for this car. Cruise pressure varies with temperature, basically the 59psi max comes at a higher and higher RPM as the car warms up. If you set a warning light for something useful at the track (15psi would be my guess) it *will* be lit all the time at idle. I have absolutely no idea how the flywheel could have affected it, especially with a 3-second running average. I can only guess that something electrical got affected while the mechanic was in there, like the ground for the senders (grounded to the block through the oil filter housing, if it's a typical setup). andy r. 98 m3/2 >>I have the SPA gauge set to average the pressure over 3.0 >>seconds and to give me a warning light if the pressure drops below 5 PSI >>(where the car has always idled at). >Yikes. So you're saying your car has 5 psi of oil pressure at idle? >If so then yeah something is screwed up. My 244,000 mile oil burning M20 >on my POS E30 idles >at 17 psi when hot and I was worried about that. BTW your warning light >should be set at something probably >north of 25 or 30-ish psi IMO. I think the factory ones (or so I hear) are >set a 7psi and most people >feel that's way too late to throw the light.
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#2. [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel > Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:26:28 -0400 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel > > >I have the SPA gauge set to average the pressure over 3.0 > >seconds and to give me a warning light if the pressure drops > below 5 PSI > >(where the car has always idled at). > > Yikes. So you're saying your car has 5 psi of oil pressure at idle? > If so then yeah something is screwed up. My 244,000 mile oil > burning M20 > on my POS E30 idles > at 17 psi when hot and I was worried about that. My E36 M3 runs at 17-19 psi hot. 5 psi is way too low, your stock light should be triggering at that point. I wonder if there is something wrong with your sensor or gauge. > BTW your warning light > should be set at something probably > north of 25 or 30-ish psi IMO. That would be great if you wanted to see the light and/or hear the buzzer every time you are at idle or the rpms are less than ~2,000 rpms.... ;-) Most go with 15-20 psi or potentially target a psi just under the standard idle psi. > I think the factory ones (or > so I hear) are > set a 7psi and most people > feel that's way too late to throw the light. That sounds about right and any warning sooner than 7 psi would be more time. 7 psi doesn't give you much of a chance. 15-20 psi would give you additional incremental time albeit you would still have to act quickly. > IMO the ltw flywheel should not affect any of this. Agreed. Regards, Rich - would like to add a warning light/buzzer to my E36 M3 at 15 psi.
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Tom Reynolds
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:44:50 -0700 From: Tom Reynolds <kjtar@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Rich, just going by what I've seen on some of my cars, 3 bar is normal operating oil pressure, around 1 1/2 to maybe 2 bar, depending on outside temp, is what I've generally seen at idle. (Figure "bar" is 1 atmospheric pressure, around 14.7 psi). So, maybe you should have your warnings set to around 20 psi? Best regards, Tom Reynolds Sand Springs, OK At 01:12 PM 05/18/2005 -0500, Rich Dorffer wrote: > >Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:10:36 -0700 (PDT) >From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> >Subject: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel > >> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 08:26:28 -0400 >> From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel >> >> >I have the SPA gauge set to average the pressure over 3.0 >> >seconds and to give me a warning light if the pressure drops >> below 5 PSI >> >(where the car has always idled at). >> >> Yikes. So you're saying your car has 5 psi of oil pressure at idle? >> If so then yeah something is screwed up. My 244,000 mile oil >> burning M20 >> on my POS E30 idles >> at 17 psi when hot and I was worried about that. > >My E36 M3 runs at 17-19 psi hot. 5 psi is way too low, your stock light should be triggering at >that point. I wonder if there is something wrong with your sensor or gauge. > >> BTW your warning light >> should be set at something probably >> north of 25 or 30-ish psi IMO. > >That would be great if you wanted to see the light and/or hear the buzzer every time you are at >idle or the rpms are less than ~2,000 rpms.... > >;-) > >Most go with 15-20 psi or potentially target a psi just under the standard idle psi. > >> I think the factory ones (or >> so I hear) are >> set a 7psi and most people >> feel that's way too late to throw the light. > >That sounds about right and any warning sooner than 7 psi would be more time. 7 psi doesn't give >you much of a chance. 15-20 psi would give you additional incremental time albeit you would still >have to act quickly. > >> IMO the ltw flywheel should not affect any of this. > >Agreed. > >Regards, > >Rich - would like to add a warning light/buzzer to my E36 M3 at 15 psi. > > >************************************************* >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > >DIGEST INFORMATION: >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >************************************************* > > > > > >-- >Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 05/09/2005 > > -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.11.7 - Release Date: 05/09/2005
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:27:53 -0400 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel >That would be great if you wanted to see the light and/or hear the buzzer every time you are at >idle or the rpms are less than ~2,000 rpms.... ;-) True, that's why I wouldn't add a buzzer, I think I could live with a light flickering at idle if I knew that it could potentially save you from an expensive engine rebuild. On the track you're not going to be at 2,000 rpm or under so I would personally go with a sender closer to the 25-30 psi I mentioned. I don't have any experience with an engine failing on the track with gauges so I don't know what the gauges actually do for you at that exact moment. Most people have electrical gauges so that in itself may be useless when the engine lets go on the track (too much of a delay to give you a good warning). I think I just convinced myself that I need to get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and warning light for the future track car whatever that may be. :-) Richard John has a warning system that I believe can take input from about 4 different senders (from your gauges <VDO, Autometer, etc>) and the warning light is wired into your helmet so there's no chance that you're going to miss it. Seemed like a pretty good idea to me. Carlos.
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Thomas Philip
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:43:04 -0400 From: Thomas Philip <tphilip@omtay.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel On May 18, 2005, at 3:32 PM, Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com wrote: > I think I could live with a light > flickering at idle if I knew that it could potentially save you > from an > expensive engine rebuild. On the track you're not going to be at > 2,000 rpm or under so I would personally go with a sender closer to > the > 25-30 psi I mentioned. My non-M E36 has a Nordskog analog gauge with an adjustable warning light output. The light is set to fire at 30 psi -- I've never seen it trigger on track but I do see on the cool down laps and hot idle. It's hooked up to a cluster of LEDs at the base of the dash. A buzzer was intriguing until I realized I'd never hear it over the exhaust and wind noise. tom
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 13:15:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Seems high to me. I know a number of people with E36s and all of them see an idle operating pressure in the 17-20 psi range when hot. I personally see mine tucked right under the 20 psi mark on my gauge at idle when up to temp (using RedLine 10W40). I see close to 60 psi at operating temp with normal rpms (~2,000-2,500 and above IIRC). With 1 bar equal to 14.7 psi, you are saying 22.0 - 29.4 psi. That seems more common when the oil is still cool, the pressure drops at idle as the oil comes up to operating temps. I would agree though that you should set it as high as you can without it continually warning you (otherwise, you would grow immune to it). BMW specifies 1.0 bar for the minimum oil pressure at idle and 4.0 bar as the max regulated oil pressure. Regards, Rich --- Tom Reynolds <kjtar@earthlink.net> wrote: > Rich, just going by what I've seen on some of my cars, 3 bar is normal > operating oil pressure, around 1 1/2 to maybe 2 bar, depending on outside > temp, is what I've generally seen at idle. (Figure "bar" is 1 atmospheric > pressure, around 14.7 psi). So, maybe you should have your warnings set to > around 20 psi? > Best regards, > Tom Reynolds > Sand Springs, OK
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Bruce H
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:20:05 +0000 From: gobuffs93@comcast.net (Bruce H) Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Last year the Barber DE a friend in a recently rebuilt E30 M3 2.3 with a NEW BMW oil pump was going across the start/finish line on his cool down lap when the oil pressure light (at 25-30 psi) flickered. He shut it down and was towed in. Turns out the most of the nuts holding the pump together were finger tight and a few had fallen out. Saved him from rebuilding the S14 again (and you guys know how much it costs to rebuild an S14). The only thing that saved him was the oil pressure warning light they installed. If it would have just been the idiot light it wouldn't have saved him. They also had a very bright light installed that you can't miss. I will be installing both of these items when I start building my track car. Bruce -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:27:53 -0400 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel > True, that's why I wouldn't add a buzzer, I think I could live with a light > flickering at idle if I knew > that it could potentially save you from an expensive engine rebuild. On > the track you're not going to be at > 2,000 rpm or under so I would personally go with a sender closer to the > 25-30 psi I mentioned. I don't have any > experience with an engine failing on the track with gauges so I don't know > what the gauges actually do for you at that > exact moment. Most people have electrical gauges so that in itself may be > useless when the engine lets go on the track > (too much of a delay to give you a good warning). I think I just convinced > myself that I need to get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and warning light > for the future track car whatever that may be. :-) >
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#8. (e-mail) Won't align - from Mark Greer
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 17:02:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mark Greer" <mark.greer@excite.com> Subject: (e-mail) Won't align I just saw my previous post. I'm not sure why the formating is crazy. Sorry.Anyway. Upon further review of the dealer's alignment print-out I see they assumed the 'Sport Suspension' specs.That could be of issue -- no? Mark, 1997 Sedan _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!
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#9. Photo ticket (California?) - from jakeadavis@comcast.net
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 21:13:08 +0000 From: jakeadavis@comcast.net Subject: Photo ticket (California?) Take a look at http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm particularly http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm Hope this helps. Jake
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel - from Dave Arnold
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 18:31:53 -0400 From: "Dave Arnold" <air2daa@insightbb.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Ok, seems like we have some varying opinion about normal idle pressure but seem to agree that mine is low at 5PSI. I'm questioning if this is where my sensor is located - for the people who are getting 15 - 17PSi idle, where/how have you mounted you pressure sender? How does an oil pump fail? Could this be an indication or is it most likely the gauge setup? Dave -----Original Message----- From: Bruce H [mailto:gobuffs93@comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:22 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 20:20:05 +0000 From: gobuffs93@comcast.net (Bruce H) Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel Last year the Barber DE a friend in a recently rebuilt E30 M3 2.3 with a NEW BMW oil pump was going across the start/finish line on his cool down lap when the oil pressure light (at 25-30 psi) flickered. He shut it down and was towed in. Turns out the most of the nuts holding the pump together were finger tight and a few had fallen out. Saved him from rebuilding the S14 again (and you guys know how much it costs to rebuild an S14). The only thing that saved him was the oil pressure warning light they installed. If it would have just been the idiot light it wouldn't have saved him. They also had a very bright light installed that you can't miss. I will be installing both of these items when I start building my track car. Bruce -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:27:53 -0400 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Pressure Question with light weight flywheel > True, that's why I wouldn't add a buzzer, I think I could live with a light > flickering at idle if I knew > that it could potentially save you from an expensive engine rebuild. On > the track you're not going to be at > 2,000 rpm or under so I would personally go with a sender closer to the > 25-30 psi I mentioned. I don't have any > experience with an engine failing on the track with gauges so I don't know > what the gauges actually do for you at that > exact moment. Most people have electrical gauges so that in itself may be > useless when the engine lets go on the track > (too much of a delay to give you a good warning). I think I just convinced > myself that I need to get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and warning light > for the future track car whatever that may be. :-) > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#11. Re: [E36M3] Traffic citation - from david tow
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Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 15:39:25 -0700 From: "david tow" <david_tow@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Traffic citation Valuable info indeed! Thanks a lot, Lowell and Jake!