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#1. Re: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel - from mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:24:28 -0400 From: mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel Hi Scott, Yes, this wheel will work. I did the "upgrade" recently with help from Chester and Ron S. For my '97 I needed a column bracket that would mate with the slip ring on the three spoke wheel and allow for the horn contact connection. This ended up being just a $5 part, and a very easy conversion in the end. Your '98 may already have the right bracket. I personally like the three spoke wheel better. Good luck, any other questions just email me. Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA #13 BSP -----Original Message----- From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:42:21 -0500 Subject: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:32:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: 3-spoke wheel Is the '99 3 spoke wheel easy to retro-fit into a '98 sedan? Any other options that keep an airbag? Scott ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. Re: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel - from Scott McClung
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:44:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel Well, I owned a '98 sedan with the 4-spoke wheel and never liked it. I have been driving a few '99's with the 3-spoke wheel and much prefer it to the 4-spoke. But I very well may end up with a '98 sedan again, but before I made any decisions I wanted to ensure there was an upgrade path available for me to get the 3-spoke wheel. Scott Hans Batra <hansbatra@yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:06:55 -0400 From: "Hans Batra" Subject: Re: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel I know this is a popular "upgrade"...and I'm sure I'm in the minority here...but after having had a chance to drive both a 4-spoke M3 and a 3-spoke M3 for a few weeks now, I much prefer the hand-positioning that the 4-spoke provides. Hans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott McClung" To: "E36M3" Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:42 PM Subject: [E36M3] 3-spoke wheel > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:32:51 -0700 (PDT) > From: Scott McClung > Subject: 3-spoke wheel > > Is the '99 3 spoke wheel easy to retro-fit into a '98 sedan? Any other options that keep an airbag? > > Scott > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Falken Azenis 615 and Master Cyl? - from Jeremy Conners
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:26:01 -0400 From: "Jeremy Conners" <jeremy.conners@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Falken Azenis 615 and Master Cyl? Steve, See the interleaved replies below: // I've got a '95, so no ESC or ASC, just ABS, dig? And interesting // note about the braking circuits. I was assuming based on previous // cars circuits. The front/rear split on the E36 is due to the positive scrub radius of the front suspension. The redundant brake circuits are there for safety in the event of a failure in one of the circuits. Typical passenger cars have a diagonal split to the system (as you suggested). This allows for one front brake to be available regardless of the circuit that has failed. The caveat is that if you only brake one front wheel, you are inducing a yaw moment in the direction of that wheel. Now, the interesting thing is the scrub radius. On a car with a negative scrub radius (wheel turning axis intersects outside the center of the contact patch), you get a natural steer based on the reaction about the wheel turning axis (kingpin axis) that counter-acts the yaw from the one wheel braking. They may not be equal, but they will counter each other. For the geometry on our cars, we have a positive scrub radius and therefore the yaw moment from the one wheel braking and the steering would combine to create an even higher yaw for the vehicle. To prevent this, you use a front/rear split to the brake system. The caveat to this is that if the front circuit is the failed circuit, you lose the majority of your braking force due to the proportion that goes to the front wheels. Of course, the government regulates failed circuit stopping distances for vehicles through FMVSS, but that doesn't mean you won't need to change your shorts after. // // With the Azenis 615s, there's so much grip that the wheels don't // lock up and kick on the ABS, but rather grip like mad as the car // sheds speed. THIS is when I feel the car wanting to yaw around the // right front wheel, indicating it's getting more braking torque than // the left front. As I wrote the info above, I thought about the Front Lower Control Arm (lollypop) bushing. These have different stiffness in the longitudinal and lateral directions to absorb/react to different frequencies and loads. Your right one may be failing in the lateral direction and allowing the FLCA to pivot rearward giving toe-out to that side and steering the car. // // I hadn't considered the possibility of the LEFT front sticking, so it // makes sense to go ahead and rebuild my front calipers first and see // how the system responds. // // Either way, these are the tires that should have been on the car all // along! // // Thanks for the input, // Steve //
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Falken Azenis 615 and Master Cyl? - from Steve Klein
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:50:21 -0500 From: Steve Klein <klein@robinsonad.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Falken Azenis 615 and Master Cyl? Wow. Great info! I learn more and more about the particulars of how our cars are suspended every day. I'm sure there are shelves of books I could read. . . No problem with the LCABs I've gone from PolyU to Delrin to the Treehouse Racing units which are on there now. Rock solid, but I had to make grease caps since they point upstream into all the road junk that gets thrown at them. The rest of the suspension is relatively fresh with upgraded bushings and whatnot at all four corners, so I'm focusing on the brakes. The calipers haven't been touched (aside from regular flushing) for 145k/mi, so they're due. Thanks again for the info! Steve On Jun 8, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Jeremy Conners wrote: > > The front/rear split on the E36 is due to the positive scrub radius > of the > front suspension. The redundant brake circuits are there for > safety in the > event of a failure in one of the circuits. Typical passenger cars > have a > diagonal split to the system (as you suggested). This allows for > one front > brake to be available regardless of the circuit that has failed. > The caveat > is that if you only brake one front wheel, you are inducing a yaw > moment in > the direction of that wheel. Now, the interesting thing is the scrub > radius. On a car with a negative scrub radius (wheel turning axis > intersects outside the center of the contact patch), you get a > natural steer > based on the reaction about the wheel turning axis (kingpin axis) that > counter-acts the yaw from the one wheel braking. They may not be > equal, but > they will counter each other. For the geometry on our cars, we have a > positive scrub radius and therefore the yaw moment from the one wheel > braking and the steering would combine to create an even higher yaw > for the > vehicle. To prevent this, you use a front/rear split to the brake > system. > The caveat to this is that if the front circuit is the failed > circuit, you > lose the majority of your braking force due to the proportion that > goes to > the front wheels. Of course, the government regulates failed circuit > stopping distances for vehicles through FMVSS, but that doesn't > mean you > won't need to change your shorts after. > > > > As I wrote the info above, I thought about the Front Lower Control Arm > (lollypop) bushing. These have different stiffness in the > longitudinal and > lateral directions to absorb/react to different frequencies and > loads. Your > right one may be failing in the lateral direction and allowing the > FLCA to > pivot rearward giving toe-out to that side and steering the car.
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#5. Re: STI? - from Hunt Hodgetts
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Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:51:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Hunt Hodgetts <hhodgetts@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: STI? Keep in mind that for the price you will pay for a new STI or EVO, you can now consider an E46 M3... I am flying out to Dallas this weekend to pick up a 2001 BMW M3 with 53k miles and a 6yr/100k BMW CPO warranty for $32,000. As compelling as the STI and EVO are, I would much rather be driving an E46 M3. For those who know me, NO I am not getting rid of my AA Supercharged 95 M3. The E46 is for a customer... Hunt Hodgetts, Atlanta
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal - from Theodore Serbinski
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:14:16 -0400 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal > As has been said many times, there are 3 desireable properties of brake > pads: stopping well, quiet, low dust. Pick 2 :-) > > Jim Bassett - likes quiet, well-stopping brake pads; not so lazy that I > can't wash the car occasionally :-) Ok Jim, so what do you recommend for pads then??? Needing some new ones here soon and I'm not one to be lazy either :) Rotors thinking maybe Zimmerman slotted (since lots of great deals on them....). ted
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 13:32:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal On Thu, June 9, 2005 1:14 pm, Theodore Serbinski said: > Ok Jim, so what do you recommend for pads then??? Needing some new > ones here soon and I'm not one to be lazy either :) For what purpose? I'll assume street driving only. My choice? Simple: stock pads (Jurids) & plain ol' Brembo rotors. Simple & cheap solution, and it works. Having said that, I *may* try another pad when it comes time for new ones, just to compare/contrast. Knowing my luck though, I'll fook it up and end up back with stock pads :-) For the track/driving school (intermediate level and above): A separate set of front Brembos and PF97s pads all around. Beginner/novice level: stock is sufficient. Autox?: Can't really suggest anything, since when I autox'd I used whatever happened to be on the car at the time (stock or PF97) :-) Didn't seem to matter much for me. Racing?: Hawk Blues. Plain or slotted rotors (there may be some benefit from the slotting in this application, but <shrug> can't say for sure, since I haven't noticed any change once the slots wear down on the F rotors on the race car :-)) > Rotors thinking maybe Zimmerman slotted (since lots of great deals on > them...). If they're not less than ~$45/rotor go with the Brembos (at least, that's what I recall I paid for Brembos a while ago). Hope that helps, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal - from Theodore Serbinski
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:59:09 -0400 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal Thanks Jim! > For what purpose? Beginner DE schools and autox events + obviously street use since it is my daily as well. But being in DC, being able to stop like you could on a track might be helpful as well ;-) > I'll assume street driving only. My choice? Simple: stock pads (Jurids) & > plain ol' Brembo rotors. Simple & cheap solution, and it works. Interesting, plain and simple. Actually heard that about the rotors, never about those pads. So those pads are considered "stop quickly & quietly but a bit dirty" then? > Having said that, I *may* try another pad when it comes time for new ones, > just to compare/contrast. Knowing my luck though, I'll fook it up and end > up back with stock pads :-) Which one is this? Thanks! ted
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal On Thu, June 9, 2005 2:02 pm, Theodore Serbinski said: > Thanks Jim! Welcome. >> I'll assume street driving only. My choice? Simple: stock pads (Jurids) >> & >> plain ol' Brembo rotors. Simple & cheap solution, and it works. > > Interesting, plain and simple. Actually heard that about the rotors, > never about those pads. So those pads are considered "stop quickly & > quietly but a bit dirty" then? Well, replace "stop quickly" with "stop well" and you've got it. I've never had a problem in stopping when I've needed to with the stock pads. But, for me, if I want to "stop quickly" I get into the race car with AP racing F brakes, E46 328i vented rears and Hawk Blue pads <BG>. >> Having said that, I *may* try another pad when it comes time for new >> ones, >> just to compare/contrast. Knowing my luck though, I'll fook it up and >> end >> up back with stock pads :-) > > Which one is this? Dunno. I'd have to do a bit of research and go back through saved list posts on that subject. Or may do the "lazy" thing and just go with stock :-) Jim Bassett
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal - from Theodore Serbinski
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Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:17:54 -0400 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake Fade + Soft Pedal > Dunno. I'd have to do a bit of research and go back through saved list > posts on that subject. Great well keep us posted if you find anything comparable to the Jurids. Btw, what is your take on Pagids? I think these are the pads on my car iirc, but not positive. They seem to be fairly dustless but they are sqealing a lot lately, even after I put on some anti-squeal behind the pads... hmmm maybe I have the loud and clean brakes, eh? Rather go for some quiet and "stops-well" :-) ted