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#1. Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:57:04 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] More than a year ago I started accumulating parts for an oil cooler setup, but for the usual lame reasons never got around to completing the project. A sweltering summer this year and the diabolically hot June DE/CR at Putnam Park finally impelled me to get this project done in time for this past weekend's Buckeye school at Mid Ohio. My installation consists of 4 main elements: 1) The Euro E36 M3/world E46 M3 oil filter housing. It needs to be modified (drill/tap) to adapt one of the two rear sensor ports to accept the US-spec engine's external VANOS oil line. I also drilled and tapped both cooler ports to 3/8" NPT to take adapters for the AN fittings (see next section), although now you can buy a nicely thought-out adapter from list sponsor Turner: <http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TEN9910200> This would be a much better and easier solution. Installation of the filter housing requires pulling the alternator first. This filter housing already incorporates a thermostat to control oil flow to the cooler. 2) AN-10 braided SS jacket hose with 45 degree Aeroquip swivel fittings and AN-10 to 3/8" NPT adapters at each end of each hose. I was able to pick these up locally, but you can order them online from: <http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/aero.htm> I also slipped a length of 1.25" OD/1" ID clear vinyl tubing (hardware store) over each hose to protect adjacent car parts from abrasion. 3) A Perma-Cool 203 oil radiator like the one shown on the left here: <http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page11.html> which I special ordered through list sponsor Bimmerworld. 4) The oil cooler mounting. Initially I attached it to the inner aluminum front bumper beam with a couple of 8mm bolts and spacers, using one existing (enlarged) and one new hole. Although I haven't seen it myself I believe that this is how VPD: <http://victoryproductdesign.com/engine_main36.htm> mounts theirs. However since the cooler then has to come off with the bumper this makes access very awkward, requiring the oil hoses to be detached (messy!), pushing me to come up with a better solution. This consists of a 1" square section hollow aluminum extrusion (hardware store) clamped under the bumper shock absorber shafts with omega-shaped 1" conduit support brackets bolted to the aluminum extrusion. The cooler is attached by 8mm bolts via spacers and hangs below, behind the lower mesh grille. This mount is lightweight and very solid, and allows the bumper to be pulled off without disturbing the cooler or its plumbing. [Cost and results continued in Part 2] Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD!
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#2. Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:03:02 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] [Continued from description in Part 1] The approximate parts cost of this oil cooler installation was: E46 M3 filter housing $275 AN-10 hose, fittings 185 Perma-Cool 203 oil radiator 150 Mounting hardware 25 Total $635 (plus S&H and tax) This is about the same as VPD's $640 kit, but was more attractive to me due to the factory oil filter housing as well as my improved mounting. Using the Turner adapter would add $45 ($60 but delete 2 of the NPT/AN adapters) but be well worth it IMO. Bimmerworld also offers the complete Euro oil cooler kit for an aggressive $699 price, see: <https://secure5.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=bimmerworl&B usType=BtoC&Count1=720104396&Count2=637244820> This uses the factory formed oil lines instead of AN hoses and has, anecdotally, a somewhat lower effective cooling capacity than I ended up with. Against these good ready-made options you have to weigh the extra work to modify/install the filter housing and fabricate the mounting. Clearly my DIY approach isn't for everyone, but the result is both robust and effective. It would also be easy to substitute a larger Perma-Cool oil radiator for more severe applications. Hard running in a low to mid 90 degree ambients at Mid Ohio this past weekend gave oil temps in a modest 210-220 range measured at the filter housing. In a slightly higher ambient at the shorter and slower Putnam track I saw well over 240 degrees, so it looks as if the oil cooler is worth a good 25 degrees lower oil temperature. (Note that these are all with an oversize 57mm core PWR aluminum radiator which itself drops oil temps by 10+ degrees; however the oil cooler's relative effect should be similar with a stock or other radiator.) In anticipation of the lower oil temps I had also switched from 15W-50 to the less thick 0W-40 Mobil 1, which should be better for non-track or lower ambient use. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD!
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:35:24 -0500 From: Jamie Howton <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] Very nice writeup Neil. Thanks for taking the time to document your findings. I'll be going a similar route over the winter to get ready for next season. Regards -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:47:29 -0400 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 1] >This consists of a >1" square section hollow aluminum extrusion (hardware store) clamped under >the bumper shock absorber shafts with omega-shaped 1" conduit support >brackets bolted to the aluminum extrusion. The cooler is attached by 8mm >bolts via spacers and hangs below, behind the lower mesh grille. This mount >is lightweight and very solid, and allows the bumper to be pulled off >without disturbing the cooler or its plumbing. Neil can you get a picture of that? :-) I'd like to see different alternatives of attaching the cooler before I have to do mine. I have the whole euro setup but I didn't think ahead and order a radiator that had the required mounting locations for the oil cooler (euro rad, or S54 M Roadster/Coupe one). I have to make mine work with the Zionsville Al. one. Carlos. 98 M3
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] - from Alexander Fadeev
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:17:53 -0500 From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] Great write-up, Neil. I do have on conceptual question. You estimate the oil cooler dropping the operating temperatures by ~25F degrees from 240's to 220's. RedLine recommends running its 15W50 oil above 225F: http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?pvID=54&prodID=45&subcatID=14 Both Redline and Mobile 1 have flash points above 450F. I've heard club racers start worrying about oil temps north of 280. So what exactly does one gain by moving the oil temps DOWN and OUT of the Redline's recommended operating range? What is the operating range for different weight synthetic motor oils (hard to come by on the net)? -- alex f > -----Original Message----- > From: Neil Maller [mailto:neil.maller@gte.net] > > Hard running in a low to mid 90 degree ambients at Mid Ohio > this past weekend gave oil temps in a modest 210-220 range > measured at the filter housing. In a slightly higher ambient > at the shorter and slower Putnam track I saw well over 240 > degrees, so it looks as if the oil cooler is worth a good 25 > degrees lower oil temperature. > > (Note that these are all with an oversize 57mm core PWR > aluminum radiator which itself drops oil temps by 10+ > degrees; however the oil cooler's relative effect should be > similar with a stock or other radiator.)
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] - from Andrew Kalman
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:39:51 -0700 From: Andrew Kalman <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] Re oil coolers. It should be obvious that you always want your oil running above 212F, as you want any water / water vapors that have accumulated (due to condensation, etc.) to burn out of the oil. Last weekend at Thunderhill in my stock M3 LWT in 100 degree temps I saw 230-240F oil temps running Mobil 1 15W-50. Even at Buttonwillow in 110F heat I've never seen above 250F. I run the bigger / Euro radiator with a box-stock motor. If I were making a lot more than 240hp I suppose I would look at installing the cooler. I have all the euro oil cooler parts in a box (and I think Neil's solution on the cooler & hose side looks better than the factory) but as I have never seen 250F or higher oil temps, I have not put the cooler on the car. --Andrew >Great write-up, Neil. >I do have on conceptual question. >You estimate the oil cooler dropping the operating temperatures by ~25F >degrees from 240's to 220's. > >RedLine recommends running its 15W50 oil above 225F: >http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?pvID=54&prodID=45&subcatID=14 > >Both Redline and Mobile 1 have flash points above 450F. I've heard club racers >start worrying about oil temps north of 280. > >So what exactly does one gain by moving the oil temps DOWN and OUT of the >Redline's recommended operating range? >What is the operating range for different weight synthetic motor oils (hard to >come by on the net)? > >-- >alex f > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Neil Maller [mailto:neil.maller@gte.net] >> >> Hard running in a low to mid 90 degree ambients at Mid Ohio >> this past weekend gave oil temps in a modest 210-220 range >> measured at the filter housing. In a slightly higher ambient >> at the shorter and slower Putnam track I saw well over 240 >> degrees, so it looks as if the oil cooler is worth a good 25 >> degrees lower oil temperature. >> >> (Note that these are all with an oversize 57mm core PWR >> aluminum radiator which itself drops oil temps by 10+ >> degrees; however the oil cooler's relative effect should be >> similar with a stock or other radiator.) > > > > >************************************************* >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > >DIGEST INFORMATION: >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >************************************************* -- ______________________________________ Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com
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#7. anyone using this? - from marco
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:40:40 -0700 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: anyone using this? http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TEN9990001 Marco
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] - from Alexander Fadeev
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:45:14 -0500 From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] Good lower bound of the oil temp range, Andrew, thanks. The really extreme upper bound would be the oil's flash point. Still, I was somewhat surprised how hard it is to come by the official 'desirable' oil temp range for a given oil viscosity. -- alex f > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Kalman [mailto:aek@pumpkininc.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:40 PM > To: e36m3@bmw-m.net > Cc: Alexander Fadeev > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] > > Re oil coolers. > > It should be obvious that you always want your oil running > above 212F, as you want any water / water vapors that have > accumulated (due to condensation, etc.) to burn out of the oil. > > Last weekend at Thunderhill in my stock M3 LWT in 100 degree > temps I saw 230-240F oil temps running Mobil 1 15W-50. > > Even at Buttonwillow in 110F heat I've never seen above 250F. > > I run the bigger / Euro radiator with a box-stock motor. If I > were making a lot more than 240hp I suppose I would look at > installing the cooler. > > I have all the euro oil cooler parts in a box (and I think > Neil's solution on the cooler & hose side looks better than > the factory) but as I have never seen 250F or higher oil > temps, I have not put the cooler on the car. > > --Andrew > > > > > > >Great write-up, Neil. > >I do have on conceptual question. > >You estimate the oil cooler dropping the operating > temperatures by ~25F > >degrees from 240's to 220's. > > > >RedLine recommends running its 15W50 oil above 225F: > >http://www.redlineoil.com/products_motoroil.asp?pvID=54&prodI D=45&subca > >tID=14 > > > >Both Redline and Mobile 1 have flash points above 450F. I've > heard club > >racers start worrying about oil temps north of 280. > > > >So what exactly does one gain by moving the oil temps DOWN > and OUT of > >the Redline's recommended operating range? > >What is the operating range for different weight synthetic > motor oils > >(hard to come by on the net)? > > > >-- > >alex f > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Neil Maller [mailto:neil.maller@gte.net] > >> > >> Hard running in a low to mid 90 degree ambients at Mid Ohio this > >> past weekend gave oil temps in a modest 210-220 range measured at > >> the filter housing. In a slightly higher ambient at the > shorter and > >> slower Putnam track I saw well over 240 degrees, so it > looks as if > >> the oil cooler is worth a good 25 degrees lower oil temperature. > >> > >> (Note that these are all with an oversize 57mm core PWR aluminum > >> radiator which itself drops oil temps by 10+ degrees; however the > >> oil cooler's relative effect should be similar with a > stock or other > >> radiator.) > > > > > > > > > >************************************************* > >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport > >http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance > >http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing > >http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. > >http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > > >DIGEST INFORMATION: > >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > >************************************************* > > > -- > ______________________________________ > Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] RE: Shifting woes - 2nd plea for help - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:50:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Shifting woes - 2nd plea for help On Wed, August 17, 2005 1:40 pm, Jim Bassett said: > On Wed, August 17, 2005 1:20 pm, Burgess, Kim L said: >> Can we get Suzy to 'host' the pdf Roundel file? > > I can put it up on my host tonight. Did the original poster get a copy of the Roundel article? I haven't put it up on my web host yet, and another list member made a good point yesterday about not putting it up on the Web, it being copyrighted material. If I get around to it, I'll ask Satch for permission to put it up, but in the meantime I can email it to whoever wants a copy. Jim Bassett
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:56:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil Cooler Report [Part 2] --- Andrew Kalman <aek@pumpkininc.com> wrote: > I run the bigger / Euro radiator with a box-stock motor. If I were > making a lot more than 240hp I suppose I would look at installing the > cooler. That statement isn't entirely true anymore!! :) Reminds me of a guy that Wayne, Jim and I met at the track last year. He had an evo that was a monster. When he lifted at the end of the straight, there would be 3 feet of fire out of the exhaust! We asked him what he's done to the car and he said that it was stock. We were impressed. After talking some more, we come to find that it had cams. His response after we called him on it, "O...everyone does cams...it's a throwaway!" WTF? He then had a whole after market suspension and a few other things...I forgot. Chester
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#11. Re: [E36M3] anyone using this? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:59:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] anyone using this? I'm not sure what the whole sales pitch is with that particular product. They talk about accuracy of oil temp and how by measuring from the sump, it gives you a better idea of the oil temp that is lubricating the engine and how the oil gets hotter from the pump, etc. So how does the engine get lubricated? From the sloshing oil in the pan? No...from the oil after the oil pump. Does their claim make sense to anyone?? Chester --- marco <m3driver@iname.com> wrote: > http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TEN9990001