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#1. Oktoberfest '05 - from Jonathan Evans
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:12:38 +0000 From: "Jonathan Evans" <jonathanevans@hotmail.com> Subject: Oktoberfest '05 Anyone going to Oktoberfest at VIR? I've let my BMCCA mmbership lapse in recent years and have been looking for a reason to rejoin. And VIR is a couple of hours away, so I have no excuse. http://www.tarheelbmwcca.org/oktoberfest.htm And from the national club website they mention something about raffling off FIVE M5's. Don't want to miss that opportunity! http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Oktoberfest_2005 -Jonathan Evans 95 M3
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#2. Follow-up Question on Bilstein C/O's - from Patrick Kelly
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 12:18:41 -0400 From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> Subject: Follow-up Question on Bilstein C/O's Regarding Turner's new PSS9 kit for the E36M3, it is listed as a '96-'99 application.any reason why this won't work on a '95? TIA Pat Kelly 95M3 pkelly@agincourtcapital.com
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#3. RE: [E36M3]NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:03:54 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. Tom Clark (thanks Tom!!!) shared a response and said his wife as passenger wasn't really fond of the heavier sprung suspension of his TCKline kit 400/frt/rear. I could really use some more list advice from people whom drive equivalently sprung suspensions daily with rates similar to the new bilstein CO kit (400/685) that Turner has just introduced. Although it's my 2nd vehicle, my M3 is a street car first and since it's the nicest by far I'd almost consider it my primary vehicle when weather permits here in philly since its so much fun to drive :) I also don't want to ruin and make an over-harsh ride to the point that the SO complains, or our expected child is uncomfortable. Me I'd be happy driving a slot car, but it's not always about me! Thanks, Patrick Goss 97 M3/4 - 92K, on original tired suspension, lowered 1" up front due to 1 broken front spring, 2nd cut to match... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:42 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT So the bilstein kit for the 3.2 is 460frt and 685r (rears progressive) vs Stock M3 @ 105/335, that's a sizeable increase. Can anybody comment on how this coilover kit might be to live with on a day to day street basis? In the past I never complained having an integra which was much lighter than my M3 where I autox'd on 400/350 linear springs driven daily. Now I must admit I am currently driving on 245/255 R tyres (weather permitting) on the street almost daily right now, so I guess as driver I am prone to put up with more. I do have a 2nd beater vehicle. Passengers and a child in an infant seat may complain more. Really thou, what can be expected with 460/685 springs on the street? One unrelated attraction to coil-overs is the rumored strut clearance provided, which might allow me to get rid of the spacer with my 9" forgelines.... Patrick Goss -----Original Message----- From: twisty M3 [mailto:twistym3@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:17:12 -0700 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT For anyone else who was curious as to the actual spring rates with this coilover kit, I just got this info directly from Bilstein: << The spring rate on our PSS9 M3 3.2L is 460 lbs/in. front and progressive rate 685 lbs/ins. rear. The 3.0L is 500 lbs/ins. front and 685 lbs/ins. rear. >> Jonathan L. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#4. Re: [E36M3]NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT - from Sue Kraft
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:23:55 -0500 From: Sue Kraft <suekraft@new.rr.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT Patrick Goss - PA wrote: >Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:03:54 -0500 >From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> >Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT > >List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? > > Could be the subject line. Looks like you're trying to sell something instead of ask for advice. It does say <AD> in the subject line, not help needed. Sue
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#5. RE: [E36M3]NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT - from Rex Tener
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:24:34 -0700 From: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT At 01:09 PM 8/30/2005 -0500, Patrick Goss - PA wrote: >List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? The guilt, I can't take it. :-) >I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring >rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance >gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. I run TC Kline Racing Koni DA CO with 400 front and 500 rear springs on my 1996 M3. In my experience, street ride harshness is strongly correlated to the strut/shock compression setting. That is one of the reasons I have the Koni DA's. I run zero clicks compression on the street and 1 turn out from full soft on rebound and the ride is very nice, much better than the worn out stock shocks with stock springs that were on the car before and better than my 2001 M Coupe with stock springs and Koni single adjustables. I have not noticed any extra wheel clearance as the front struts seem to have the same outside diameter as the stock ones. It really depends on the spring length and how low the perch must be to achieve the desired ride height. -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com
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#6. Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:30:17 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Lets's try this one last time with a better subject line. Sorry for double post. Responses receive positive Karma. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA [mailto:Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:10 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:03:54 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. Tom Clark (thanks Tom!!!) shared a response and said his wife as passenger wasn't really fond of the heavier sprung suspension of his TCKline kit 400/frt/rear. I could really use some more list advice from people whom drive equivalently sprung suspensions daily with rates similar to the new bilstein CO kit (400/685) that Turner has just introduced. Although it's my 2nd vehicle, my M3 is a street car first and since it's the nicest by far I'd almost consider it my primary vehicle when weather permits here in philly since its so much fun to drive :) I also don't want to ruin and make an over-harsh ride to the point that the SO complains, or our expected child is uncomfortable. Me I'd be happy driving a slot car, but it's not always about me! Thanks, Patrick Goss 97 M3/4 - 92K, on original tired suspension, lowered 1" up front due to 1 broken front spring, 2nd cut to match... -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:42 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT So the bilstein kit for the 3.2 is 460frt and 685r (rears progressive) vs Stock M3 @ 105/335, that's a sizeable increase. Can anybody comment on how this coilover kit might be to live with on a day to day street basis? In the past I never complained having an integra which was much lighter than my M3 where I autox'd on 400/350 linear springs driven daily. Now I must admit I am currently driving on 245/255 R tyres (weather permitting) on the street almost daily right now, so I guess as driver I am prone to put up with more. I do have a 2nd beater vehicle. Passengers and a child in an infant seat may complain more. Really thou, what can be expected with 460/685 springs on the street? One unrelated attraction to coil-overs is the rumored strut clearance provided, which might allow me to get rid of the spacer with my 9" forgelines.... Patrick Goss -----Original Message----- From: twisty M3 [mailto:twistym3@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 08:17:12 -0700 From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT For anyone else who was curious as to the actual spring rates with this coilover kit, I just got this info directly from Bilstein: << The spring rate on our PSS9 M3 3.2L is 460 lbs/in. front and progressive rate 685 lbs/ins. rear. The 3.0L is 500 lbs/ins. front and 685 lbs/ins. rear. >> Jonathan L. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. RE:NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:37:25 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: RE: <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT on 8/30/05 10:29 AM, "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> wrote: >> The spring rate on our PSS9 M3 3.2L is 460 lbs/in. front and progressive >> rate 685 lbs/ins. rear. The 3.0L is 500 lbs/ins. front and 685 lbs/ins. >> rear. > I believe another list member posted a similar question to this, but is there > any feedback from those running other coilover kits as to these rates? The > sound reasonable to me, but possibly a pretty big variation from front to > rear, as it seems many of the TCK and GC users run close-to equal rates front > to rear. 500# all around seems to be the number I see most, but any and all > feedback would be appreciated. I have the TCK Koni DA setup with 450F/500R linear rate springs. This is very good on the track and acceptable on smooth roads, but it beats you up somewhat on broken surfaces. I've also tried 350F/400R which is awesome on the street, but not quite firm enough for a track car. Which way to go is an individual choice, depending on whether you want a track car that's usable on the street or a daily driver that's pretty good on the track. (Not that a stock M3 is any slouch.) I'm guessing that the stated 685 lb/in is the average over its travel of the progressive rate rear, so it might be softer or similar to mine initially but stiffer in the end. It would be interesting to know how much travel the PSS9 shocks have. The Koni DA's are short and don't have a lot of travel, so their springs need to be fairly stiff from the get-go. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 77 MGB - Original owner, need to sell 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD!
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:41:25 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Thanks Rex, good point on the double adjustability of the TC Kline kit. I understand how this can offer the flexibility to make it more versatile for street/track. I must admit I am not sure what the bilstein coilover kit offers in adjustability, as the website merely states is has 9 adjustability steps and does not define if its rebound or compression. If only single adjustable, my quess would be compression only (as I think back to how my old koni SA were on the integra), but somebody feel free to comment on that if they know. Thanks, Patrick (sending out good karma like its on sale for a $1.49) -----Original Message----- From: Rex Tener [mailto:rex_tener@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:25 PM To: Patrick Goss - PA Cc: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT At 01:09 PM 8/30/2005 -0500, Patrick Goss - PA wrote: >List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? The guilt, I can't take it. :-) >I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring >rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance >gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. I run TC Kline Racing Koni DA CO with 400 front and 500 rear springs on my 1996 M3. In my experience, street ride harshness is strongly correlated to the strut/shock compression setting. That is one of the reasons I have the Koni DA's. I run zero clicks compression on the street and 1 turn out from full soft on rebound and the ride is very nice, much better than the worn out stock shocks with stock springs that were on the car before and better than my 2001 M Coupe with stock springs and Koni single adjustables. I have not noticed any extra wheel clearance as the front struts seem to have the same outside diameter as the stock ones. It really depends on the spring length and how low the perch must be to achieve the desired ride height. -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:03:42 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? This just in from Bilstein's website: "BILSTEIN B16 PSS9 provide the greatest degree of uniform damping Significantly higher damping forces on shorter strokes, which increase much more homogeneously when changing from compression to rebound (up/down). BILSTEIN B16 PSS9 suspensions with individual damping force adjustment include a setting range of approx. 30%, from the "softest" (9) to the firmest (1). At the softest setting the B16 PSS9 suspensions already unfold the handling performance of a sports shock absorber, with additional reserves available for the ambitious driver. The BILSTEIN threaded suspensions with individual damping force adjustment modify the force simultaneously both on the compression and rebound strokes" The last sentence states it I think. Single adjustment which changes the compression and rebound at the same time. Thus if I understand correctly , might not offer as much of the flexibility that Rex stated with his Koni DA where he is able to adjust each setting exclusively. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA [mailto:Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:50 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:41:25 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Thanks Rex, good point on the double adjustability of the TC Kline kit. I understand how this can offer the flexibility to make it more versatile for street/track. I must admit I am not sure what the bilstein coilover kit offers in adjustability, as the website merely states is has 9 adjustability steps and does not define if its rebound or compression. If only single adjustable, my quess would be compression only (as I think back to how my old koni SA were on the integra), but somebody feel free to comment on that if they know. Thanks, Patrick (sending out good karma like its on sale for a $1.49) -----Original Message----- From: Rex Tener [mailto:rex_tener@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:25 PM To: Patrick Goss - PA Cc: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT At 01:09 PM 8/30/2005 -0500, Patrick Goss - PA wrote: >List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? The guilt, I can't take it. :-) >I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring >rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance >gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. I run TC Kline Racing Koni DA CO with 400 front and 500 rear springs on my 1996 M3. In my experience, street ride harshness is strongly correlated to the strut/shock compression setting. That is one of the reasons I have the Koni DA's. I run zero clicks compression on the street and 1 turn out from full soft on rebound and the ride is very nice, much better than the worn out stock shocks with stock springs that were on the car before and better than my 2001 M Coupe with stock springs and Koni single adjustables. I have not noticed any extra wheel clearance as the front struts seem to have the same outside diameter as the stock ones. It really depends on the spring length and how low the perch must be to achieve the desired ride height. -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too - from Tom Melton
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Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:10:05 -0400 From: "Tom Melton" <Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Koni single adjustable shocks are rebound adjustable, not compression adjustable... -Tom >>> "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> 8/30/2005 2:49:54 PM >>> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:41:25 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Free Karma: When does your suspension get too harsh for street? Thanks Rex, good point on the double adjustability of the TC Kline kit. I understand how this can offer the flexibility to make it more versatile for street/track. I must admit I am not sure what the bilstein coilover kit offers in adjustability, as the website merely states is has 9 adjustability steps and does not define if its rebound or compression. If only single adjustable, my quess would be compression only (as I think back to how my old koni SA were on the integra), but somebody feel free to comment on that if they know. Thanks, Patrick (sending out good karma like its on sale for a $1.49) -----Original Message----- From: Rex Tener [mailto:rex_tener@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:25 PM To: Patrick Goss - PA Cc: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] <AD> NEW ! E36 M3 SPECIFIC BILSTEIN COIL OVER KIT At 01:09 PM 8/30/2005 -0500, Patrick Goss - PA wrote: >List members, what happened to our list, only 1 reply...? The guilt, I can't take it. :-) >I am still looking for advice on my below post concerning heavier spring >rates and daily driving comfortability as well as extra wheel clearance >gained (if any) when switching from regular front struts to coil-overs. I run TC Kline Racing Koni DA CO with 400 front and 500 rear springs on my 1996 M3. In my experience, street ride harshness is strongly correlated to the strut/shock compression setting. That is one of the reasons I have the Koni DA's. I run zero clicks compression on the street and 1 turn out from full soft on rebound and the ride is very nice, much better than the worn out stock shocks with stock springs that were on the car before and better than my 2001 M Coupe with stock springs and Koni single adjustables. I have not noticed any extra wheel clearance as the front struts seem to have the same outside diameter as the stock ones. It really depends on the spring length and how low the perch must be to achieve the desired ride height. -- Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************