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#1. RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link - from Alan Leung
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:29:03 -0500 From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link Ok ... makes sense - but why aren't REAR adjustable sway end links made then? In my twisted way of thinking, am I better off with stock front sway end links so that BOTH my front and rear sways are made effectively stiffer by lowering the car vs. just compensating the front? Real help welcomed (hello, Jim ;> ) >Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:45:00 -0700 >From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> >Subject: RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link > >Alan - I don't recall the exact configuration of our bar/end link/strut >attach, but assuming the bar is horizontal in static position, lowering >the car with the same length end links will push the end-of-bar up >effectively changing the length of the lever arm the strut is acting >against - changing the rate of the bar - result = stiffer bar. > >-------] > ] > ] > >Vs > /] > / ] > / ] >/ > >KLB > > -------------------- 1 -------------------- >Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:44:27 -0500 >From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> >Subject: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link > >It looks like my front sway bar end links are getting loose so it's >probably >time for replacement. I'm thinking about going with adjustable end >links as >I vaguely remember it's a good idea if car will be lowered. Can anyone >tell >me how the adjustment compensates for a lowered front? Just by looking >at >the front suspension I can't quite see how it'd matter. Advices >welcomed. > >Also thanks a lot to Jay, Pat, Keith, Chester, Andrew for answering my >question on how to remove the rear lower control arm. I'm a little >relieved >to know that I don't need to disconnect the drive shaft. > >Alan >95 M3
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#2. Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link On Wed, September 21, 2005 2:34 pm, Alan Leung said: > Ok ... makes sense - but why aren't REAR adjustable sway end links made > then? Ummm, they are. I have 'em attached to the UUC swaybars on the M3. :-) > Real help welcomed > (hello, Jim ;> ) There, happy now? :-) Jim Bassett - my work here is done
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#3. RE: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:18:42 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link Has anyone done the math on this? I doubt very much that lowering affects the stiffness of the bar by any great factor at all. The adjustable link is really more for making sure there is no preload on the bar. Preload that affects the bar is only twisting preload...meaning one side has a longer or shorter link than the other. The sway bar works in twist (and actually called an anti-sway bar since it works against body roll) so as long as the links are the same length there is no preload on the bar (assuming the bar is not permanantly twisted past equilibrium). If you lower the car a lot it may affect it somewhat but I would guess no. By the time you lower it that much you'll be more worried about contact under compression more than anything else. But again, this is not preload. Jack Money #86 CM M3 ---> For Sale, $32k w/spares Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotorsports.com -----Original Message----- From: Burgess, Kim L [mailto:kim.l.burgess@boeing.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:45:00 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link Alan - I don't recall the exact configuration of our bar/end link/strut attach, but assuming the bar is horizontal in static position, lowering the car with the same length end links will push the end-of-bar up effectively changing the length of the lever arm the strut is acting against - changing the rate of the bar - result = stiffer bar. -------] ] ] Vs /] / ] / ] / KLB -------------------- 1 -------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:44:27 -0500 From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> Subject: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link It looks like my front sway bar end links are getting loose so it's probably time for replacement. I'm thinking about going with adjustable end links as I vaguely remember it's a good idea if car will be lowered. Can anyone tell me how the adjustment compensates for a lowered front? Just by looking at the front suspension I can't quite see how it'd matter. Advices welcomed. Also thanks a lot to Jay, Pat, Keith, Chester, Andrew for answering my question on how to remove the rear lower control arm. I'm a little relieved to know that I don't need to disconnect the drive shaft. Alan 95 M3 ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005
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#4. Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:39:09 -0500 From: Jamie Howton <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link > Has anyone done the math on this? I doubt very much that lowering affects > the stiffness of the bar by any great factor at all. The adjustable link is > really more for making sure there is no preload on the bar. Preload that > affects the bar is only twisting preload...meaning one side has a longer or > shorter link than the other. The sway bar works in twist (and actually > called an anti-sway bar since it works against body roll) so as long as the > links are the same length there is no preload on the bar (assuming the bar > is not permanantly twisted past equilibrium). From my experience, the swaybar is free to rotate within the bushings as you move it up or down especially if you have urethane bushings and they are lubed enough to not squeek. I can't see that lowering the car would have any effect on the swaybar loading unless the lowering is uneven from side to side. You can easily validate this yourself, just disconnect the swaybar endlinks and try to move the bar within the bushings, it isn't that hard to do. I guess if you have the stock rubber bushings installed, the bar might not move too easily but if the swaybar resisted the up and down motion of the suspension it would act more like a shock absorber in damping suspension movement than an anti-sway bar. Just my $.02. -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#5. Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link - from cteague@cox.net
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:24:24 -0400 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Question: Adjustable Sway Bar End Link I have a set of the Ground-Control adjustable end links for the rear swaybar. I would guess they are less common since the won't work on the factory bar, only aftermarket bars. The front ones work on the factory or aftermarket bars. Chris > > From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> > > Ok ... makes sense - but why aren't REAR adjustable sway end links made > then? In my twisted way of thinking, am I better off with stock front sway > end links so that BOTH my front and rear sways are made effectively stiffer > by lowering the car vs. just compensating the front? Real help welcomed > (hello, Jim ;> )
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#6. Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 - from ///max
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:40:32 -0400 From: "///max" <max_m3@yahoo.com> Subject: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 I run my Hawk HP+ on my daily driver, at Auto-x events, AND at DE track events. Its best application is for auto-x, so like anything, there are trade-offs for other applications. However, On the street, it's an awesome pad, and I ran them all last winter here in New England, with no issues in the cold. Also I love them at the track, but know that I run street tires on the track. I bought HT-10's for track use with race tires, but haven't gotten out to the track lately. Only have great things to say about these pads! -max > Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:45:49 -0500 > From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> > Subject: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 > > I'm looking for a street/track pad and would like to hear from people who > are running DS2500. I'm most interested in these factors: > > - improved stopping vs. other brand (Axxis, Hawk, Porterfield, etc) > - good initial bite > - dust > - best place to buy > > Thanks a lot for your input. > > Alan > 95 M3 - GC race coilover ready to go on car
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:15:30 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 Seems most covered the other stuff pretty well and for your situation I'd say start with the Hawk HP+. I would also reiterate that dedicated track pads/rotors are still the better way to go and you will eventually do that, just do it now. On the Ferrodo's....I tried them once. It was on Simon's car (JS E30 M3) and he had DS3000's on the front and the 2500's on the rear. They sucked bad. Well, I should qualify that by saying neither of us liked them at all. We ran them in 2 sessions and took them off, yuck. I think a big part of that is being used to the bite of Hawk's, once you get used to that it's hard to switch. I've never once felt another pad with as much bite. I find them easy to modulate and very resistant to any fade, they deal with the heat really well. The Ferrodo's wear like crap too, the Hawks wear really well. Those who have experienced quick rotor wear are not getting them up to temp most likely, I always had good rotor wear, still do. One thing about the Hawks, particularly the HT10's and up, I find they work better with less ducting. I always use some but limiting it helps a lot, they work better when they're hot and it's good to keep them hot. Jack Money #86 CM M3 ---> For Sale, $32k w/spares Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotorsports.com -----Original Message----- From: Alan Leung [mailto:alanleung100@hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:45:49 -0500 From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> Subject: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 I'm looking for a street/track pad and would like to hear from people who are running DS2500. I'm most interested in these factors: - improved stopping vs. other brand (Axxis, Hawk, Porterfield, etc) - good initial bite - dust - best place to buy Thanks a lot for your input. Alan 95 M3 - GC race coilover ready to go on car ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.3/107 - Release Date: 9/20/2005
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#8. Wheels F/S - from Marc Plante
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:10:30 -0400 From: Marc Plante <marcva@gmail.com> Subject: Wheels F/S Have a friend looking for 8" or 8.5 track wheels. Anyone with a F/S that went unanswered? ps sorry about title on my last posting about brakes. I had the title field obscured in GMail. Marc Plante 1997 E36 M3/4 67k 2005 "Child" (on order) Vienna, VA
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#9. RE: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 - from Townsend, William
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:58:19 -0400 From: "Townsend, William" <wtownsen@enterasys.com> Subject: RE: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 I am on the same program as Jonathan, no pad changing for street/track just run track pads. Also thought the Cobalt's were great on street and track. Even cold, could pull your eyeballs out of their sockets, very fun on the street if you don't mind the noise & dust. I recently went to Hawks which I like on the track better (ht-14F/ht-10R) and they last longer but their street performance is lacking as expected (until hot). Not a big enough deal to make me wanna switch back and forth. Dust still just wipes off unlike some other pads. Also had a couple friends run the Ferodo's and at their temp limits were having uneven pad deposits on their rotors. They use hawk now. --Bill 96 M3 coupe red
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#10. Re: [E36M3] RE: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:24:31 -0400 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Feedback Request: Ferodo DS2500 >I recently went to Hawks which I like on the track better >(ht-14F/ht-10R) and they last longer but their street performance is >lacking as expected (until hot). Not a big enough deal to make me wanna >switch back and forth. Dust still just wipes off unlike some other pads. The only thing that concerns me about running aggressive race pads on the street is the wear they put on rotors. How scored are your rotors after running HT-14s and HT-10s on the street? I ran HT-10s for the first time on my E36 M3 at VIR and they worked very well as expected. This car has StopTechs up front though so I didn't want to run the HT-10s on the street and eat away at those rotors, instead I swap in HP+ for street duty and the rotors remain mirror smooth. Carlos. 98 M3