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#1. Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:38:25 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:31 PM, Scott McClung wrote: > 350Z is quite a bit heavier, right? What drew me to the RX8 was > the 3000lb weight. Hell, the Mazdaspeed miata would be an even > better choice if it were not a ragtop (minor detail, right?) Autoweek reports in the new issue that the Miata will be available next year with a folding hard top. $2-3K price premium. - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar
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#2. RE: [E36M3] RX8? - from Alexander Fadeev
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:20:18 -0500 From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RX8? Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] wrote: > > it would probably run somewhere between $16-18K to build > a decent M3 track car, maybe as high as $20K, but the RX8 > at $25K is brand new with a 4 year warrantee Scott, You do realize that the value of a 4 year warrantee should be severely discounted once you start adding track mods. Not only are you raising the prospect of denied warrantee claims, but the parts you are likely to be modifying are the things that will be most likely to wear/tear on track. > and can also be had for outstanding lease rates for what > I term as - rent-a-racer :-) Unless you know that the lease residual rates are grossly under-estimated (highly unlikely), why would you want to tango with the lease return prospects? For a track-only car! FWIW, I do agree that E36s are getting old and the frequency of the required repairs may be approaching the PITA threshold for some. But if you can rationalize a track-only car, a business case for a Lotus Elise should not be much harder to construct. 1984 pounds baby, 1984 pounds .... ;-) alex f
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#3. Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from marco
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:05:39 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? here's my two cents 1) Lots of E36s out there. Junk yard parts are easy to find. As long as you don't rip out the rear subframe and trailing arm mounts you're golden. Re-enforce those places and the car is fine. Weren't many RX-8 sold, right. 2) I've been told that RX-8s get really shitty gas mileage. It'll make the CTS-V look miserly. 3) I've recently jumped feet first into the engine management/tuning world for my race car. One thing I learned (via books) is that a rotary engine pings one time. Then it's dead. So if you're looking to do some serious mods on the car you better find someone that really knows how to tune them. 4) The caddy while a fabulous street car, but I think it would take a lot of upgrades to make it as trackable as an M3. While I'm absolutely intoxicated with the torque out of the caddy motor, I don't have the desire to change it's street manners at all, except to maybe lower it a few inches so it doesn't look like it's ready to go four wheeling (which I may add it does just fine as evidenced by my spectacular off at T1 at Thill). Get an S54, dump it in a E36 chassis and have fun ;-) Marco 95 E36 M2.935 DM 02 Chevy Shrekmobile 04 CTS-V -----Original Message----- From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:02 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? Close, but not quite :-) Street cars: E36M3 E39M5 Z06 E46330i CTS-V Race / track cars: '89 IROC - had for 10 years '91 Corvette - had for 6 years and still own I am re-evaluating my track-use and trying to decide if owning a dedicated track car plus the associated tow rig and trailer is really worth it. I've been in that mode for more than 10 years and with the amount I get to the track (4-5 times / year) the strategy of a dedicated race car _ tow rig is making less and less sense. Especially since the C4 is a very expensive car to campaign in a competitive road racing series and there is not much place to run it anyway other than SCCA ITE. And I really don't have the time / budget to go whole-hog down that road. So I am considering my alternatives if I dump the race car which include: - street / track car capable of driving to/from events - such as E36 M3, RX8 or Sub sti - run the CTS-V for track days running the CTS-V worries me because the car is worth a lot of coin and tracking can certainly cause some damage, plus the car does weigh 3850lbs so while the handling is quite amazing for such a heavy car, it still is a heavy car and will be eating tires among other things. Brakes are simply outstanding, however - 4-piston brembos with 14-14.5" rotors all round!! Either way, I'm keeping the CTS-V as my street car. Love it - fits all my daily driver needs quite well. Scott Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: Wasn't it you who did something like: E36M3 E39M5 E36M3 Corvette E36M3 ?? So here we go again? Well, if you do get a RX-8, we'll see ya back in a few months ;) Chester --- Scott McClung wrote: > Has anyone here considered moving to (or has moved to) an RX8 as a dual > porpose street / track car? Seems to be a very equivalent if not better > handling car to the E36 M3, considering same HP, slightly less weight > (3000lbs), similar tires sizes, and evidence by the fact that 8 out of the > top 9 finishers in Topeka in BS were driving them. Considering the E36 is > now a 15 year old platform and is getting to an age where maint and repairs > becomes a significant factor, and the RX8 is a brand new model with full > warrantee it seems like it would be an attractive option. Yes, I realize it > is butt-ugly :-) But wondering if anyone has considering going that route or > has gone that route from a previous E36 M3 DE type of track toy + street > sports car. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#4. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Scott M
Top
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:13:14 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? If I were doing the motor swap thing, I'd be more inclined to do a S50 motor in an E30 chassis - lighter, simpler, cheaper, etc. etc. That would fly. Scott on 11/14/05 9:53 PM, Marco Romani at mromani@valuescience.com wrote: > here's my two cents > > 1) Lots of E36s out there. Junk yard parts are easy to find. As long as > you don't rip out the rear subframe and trailing arm mounts you're golden. > Re-enforce those places and the car is fine. Weren't many RX-8 sold, right. > > 2) I've been told that RX-8s get really shitty gas mileage. It'll make the > CTS-V look miserly. > > 3) I've recently jumped feet first into the engine management/tuning world > for my race car. One thing I learned (via books) is that a rotary engine > pings one time. Then it's dead. So if you're looking to do some serious > mods on the car you better find someone that really knows how to tune them. > > 4) The caddy while a fabulous street car, but I think it would take a lot of > upgrades to make it as trackable as an M3. While I'm absolutely intoxicated > with the torque out of the caddy motor, I don't have the desire to change > it's street manners at all, except to maybe lower it a few inches so it > doesn't look like it's ready to go four wheeling (which I may add it does > just fine as evidenced by my spectacular off at T1 at Thill). > > Get an S54, dump it in a E36 chassis and have fun ;-) > > Marco > 95 E36 M2.935 DM > 02 Chevy Shrekmobile > 04 CTS-V > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:02 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > Close, but not quite :-) > > Street cars: > E36M3 > E39M5 > Z06 > E46330i > CTS-V > > Race / track cars: > '89 IROC - had for 10 years > '91 Corvette - had for 6 years and still own > > I am re-evaluating my track-use and trying to decide if owning a dedicated > track car plus the associated tow rig and trailer is really worth it. I've > been in that mode for more than 10 years and with the amount I get to the > track (4-5 times / year) the strategy of a dedicated race car _ tow rig is > making less and less sense. Especially since the C4 is a very expensive car > to campaign in a competitive road racing series and there is not much place > to run it anyway other than SCCA ITE. And I really don't have the time / > budget to go whole-hog down that road. > > So I am considering my alternatives if I dump the race car which include: > - street / track car capable of driving to/from events - such as E36 M3, RX8 > or Sub sti > - run the CTS-V for track days > > running the CTS-V worries me because the car is worth a lot of coin and > tracking can certainly cause some damage, plus the car does weigh 3850lbs so > while the handling is quite amazing for such a heavy car, it still is a > heavy car and will be eating tires among other things. Brakes are simply > outstanding, however - 4-piston brembos with 14-14.5" rotors all round!! > > Either way, I'm keeping the CTS-V as my street car. Love it - fits all my > daily driver needs quite well. > > Scott > > Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Wasn't it you who did something like: > > E36M3 > E39M5 > E36M3 > Corvette > E36M3 > ?? > > So here we go again? Well, if you do get a RX-8, we'll see ya back in a few > months ;) > > Chester > > --- Scott McClung wrote: >> Has anyone here considered moving to (or has moved to) an RX8 as a dual >> porpose street / track car? Seems to be a very equivalent if not better >> handling car to the E36 M3, considering same HP, slightly less weight >> (3000lbs), similar tires sizes, and evidence by the fact that 8 out of the >> top 9 finishers in Topeka in BS were driving them. Considering the E36 is >> now a 15 year old platform and is getting to an age where maint and > repairs >> becomes a significant factor, and the RX8 is a brand new model with full >> warrantee it seems like it would be an attractive option. Yes, I realize > it >> is butt-ugly :-) But wondering if anyone has considering going that route > or >> has gone that route from a previous E36 M3 DE type of track toy + street >> sports car. > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#5. Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Scott M
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:16:22 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? I wouldn't mod the car beyond shocks and R tires and track pads. Otherwise I'd leave it completely stock. And I would not only drive it on the track, but point being it would not be my daily driver. I don't see why there would be a problem with lease return, assuming I don't bang things up - anything I did there would have to be fixed first of course. And then swap the shocks back to stock and put the street rims / tires back on and stock brake pads and all of a sudden it was only driven on sunday afternoons after church :-) on 11/14/05 5:20 PM, Alexander Fadeev at afadeev@smu.edu wrote: > Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] wrote: >> >> it would probably run somewhere between $16-18K to build >> a decent M3 track car, maybe as high as $20K, but the RX8 >> at $25K is brand new with a 4 year warrantee > > Scott, > You do realize that the value of a 4 year warrantee should be severely > discounted once you start adding track mods. > Not only are you raising the prospect of denied warrantee claims, but the > parts you are likely to be modifying are the things that will be most likely > to wear/tear on track. > >> and can also be had for outstanding lease rates for what >> I term as - rent-a-racer :-) > > Unless you know that the lease residual rates are grossly under-estimated > (highly unlikely), why would you want to tango with the lease return > prospects? For a track-only car! > > FWIW, I do agree that E36s are getting old and the frequency of the required > repairs may be approaching the PITA threshold for some. > But if you can rationalize a track-only car, a business case for a Lotus Elise > should not be much harder to construct. 1984 pounds baby, 1984 pounds .... > ;-) > > alex f > >
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#6. Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Scott M
Top
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:29:53 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? WRT to the lotus suggestion - I had a thought tonight as I climbed up Montebello Road on my road bike in the dark - if I was going to spend mid $20's for a track / street sports car, I could get an early NSX - those things are bulletproof, reliable and handle extremely well. I have a buddy with one so I have spent much time in it and some driving it too, and while it is no Elise I am sure, it is pure sex on wheels. Plus that way I could sell it in 3 years if I wanted to for low $20's vs. the RX8 that will be worth sub $15K most likely. Alternatively, I could get a FRC C5 (pre-Z06 hard-top) for around $20K and have 90% of Z06 performance with a couple grand in tuning. I would much rather go that route than spend $40-large on a track toy when I already own a $50K street-toy!! (CTS-V) So the Elise is out!! But I've also been thinking do I even want to have $20K invested in a track / street toy, and I am thinking I'd like to keep it to a $10K budget if possible. One car that comes to mind is a well prepped 325is E30. I saw one in the new Roundell with a Dinan stroker motor, quaffe 3.91 diff, redone trans, nice suspension and etc. for $8K. I am sure I could get something nice in an E30 that is still reasonably quick and reliable and probably would out-handle an E36 M3 (due to lower weight) for around $10K. Nissan early 300ZX turbo (late 80's) may be another option. Miata with a roll bar could work too - I've seen well driven and set-up examples that can keep up with seemingly much stouter iron. Trying to rack my brain for what else might fit the bill. Probably best / cheapest to find a fully prepped car that already works well and that somebody put some time and $$ into and pick it up for pennies on the dollar. Just like someone will do on my C4 race car... Scott on 11/14/05 5:21 PM, Alexander Fadeev at afadeev@smu.edu wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:20:18 -0500 > From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] RX8? > > Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] wrote: >> >> it would probably run somewhere between $16-18K to build >> a decent M3 track car, maybe as high as $20K, but the RX8 >> at $25K is brand new with a 4 year warrantee > > Scott, > You do realize that the value of a 4 year warrantee should be severely > discounted once you start adding track mods. > Not only are you raising the prospect of denied warrantee claims, but the > parts you are likely to be modifying are the things that will be most likely > to wear/tear on track. > >> and can also be had for outstanding lease rates for what >> I term as - rent-a-racer :-) > > Unless you know that the lease residual rates are grossly under-estimated > (highly unlikely), why would you want to tango with the lease return > prospects? For a track-only car! > > FWIW, I do agree that E36s are getting old and the frequency of the required > repairs may be approaching the PITA threshold for some. > But if you can rationalize a track-only car, a business case for a Lotus Elise > should not be much harder to construct. 1984 pounds baby, 1984 pounds .... > ;-) > > alex f > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#7. RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from marco
Top
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:02:58 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? yeah but then you still have an E30 rear suspension. bleck. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:13 PM To: Marco Romani; E36M3 Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? If I were doing the motor swap thing, I'd be more inclined to do a S50 motor in an E30 chassis - lighter, simpler, cheaper, etc. etc. That would fly. Scott on 11/14/05 9:53 PM, Marco Romani at mromani@valuescience.com wrote: > here's my two cents > > 1) Lots of E36s out there. Junk yard parts are easy to find. As long as > you don't rip out the rear subframe and trailing arm mounts you're golden. > Re-enforce those places and the car is fine. Weren't many RX-8 sold, right. > > 2) I've been told that RX-8s get really shitty gas mileage. It'll make the > CTS-V look miserly. > > 3) I've recently jumped feet first into the engine management/tuning world > for my race car. One thing I learned (via books) is that a rotary engine > pings one time. Then it's dead. So if you're looking to do some serious > mods on the car you better find someone that really knows how to tune them. > > 4) The caddy while a fabulous street car, but I think it would take a lot of > upgrades to make it as trackable as an M3. While I'm absolutely intoxicated > with the torque out of the caddy motor, I don't have the desire to change > it's street manners at all, except to maybe lower it a few inches so it > doesn't look like it's ready to go four wheeling (which I may add it does > just fine as evidenced by my spectacular off at T1 at Thill). > > Get an S54, dump it in a E36 chassis and have fun ;-) > > Marco > 95 E36 M2.935 DM > 02 Chevy Shrekmobile > 04 CTS-V > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:02 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > Close, but not quite :-) > > Street cars: > E36M3 > E39M5 > Z06 > E46330i > CTS-V > > Race / track cars: > '89 IROC - had for 10 years > '91 Corvette - had for 6 years and still own > > I am re-evaluating my track-use and trying to decide if owning a dedicated > track car plus the associated tow rig and trailer is really worth it. I've > been in that mode for more than 10 years and with the amount I get to the > track (4-5 times / year) the strategy of a dedicated race car _ tow rig is > making less and less sense. Especially since the C4 is a very expensive car > to campaign in a competitive road racing series and there is not much place > to run it anyway other than SCCA ITE. And I really don't have the time / > budget to go whole-hog down that road. > > So I am considering my alternatives if I dump the race car which include: > - street / track car capable of driving to/from events - such as E36 M3, RX8 > or Sub sti > - run the CTS-V for track days > > running the CTS-V worries me because the car is worth a lot of coin and > tracking can certainly cause some damage, plus the car does weigh 3850lbs so > while the handling is quite amazing for such a heavy car, it still is a > heavy car and will be eating tires among other things. Brakes are simply > outstanding, however - 4-piston brembos with 14-14.5" rotors all round!! > > Either way, I'm keeping the CTS-V as my street car. Love it - fits all my > daily driver needs quite well. > > Scott > > Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Wasn't it you who did something like: > > E36M3 > E39M5 > E36M3 > Corvette > E36M3 > ?? > > So here we go again? Well, if you do get a RX-8, we'll see ya back in a few > months ;) > > Chester > > --- Scott McClung wrote: >> Has anyone here considered moving to (or has moved to) an RX8 as a dual >> porpose street / track car? Seems to be a very equivalent if not better >> handling car to the E36 M3, considering same HP, slightly less weight >> (3000lbs), similar tires sizes, and evidence by the fact that 8 out of the >> top 9 finishers in Topeka in BS were driving them. Considering the E36 is >> now a 15 year old platform and is getting to an age where maint and > repairs >> becomes a significant factor, and the RX8 is a brand new model with full >> warrantee it seems like it would be an attractive option. Yes, I realize > it >> is butt-ugly :-) But wondering if anyone has considering going that route > or >> has gone that route from a previous E36 M3 DE type of track toy + street >> sports car. > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#8. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Scott M
Top
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:33:54 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? Can't be that bad, I've seen plenty of E30 M3's that were as fast or faster than E36 M3's even tho down 50+ hp and more torque. on 11/14/05 11:11 PM, marco at m3driver@iname.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:02:58 -0800 > From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> > Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > yeah but then you still have an E30 rear suspension. bleck. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:13 PM > To: Marco Romani; E36M3 > Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > > If I were doing the motor swap thing, I'd be more inclined to do a S50 motor > in an E30 chassis - lighter, simpler, cheaper, etc. etc. That would fly. > > Scott > > on 11/14/05 9:53 PM, Marco Romani at mromani@valuescience.com wrote: > >> here's my two cents >> >> 1) Lots of E36s out there. Junk yard parts are easy to find. As long as >> you don't rip out the rear subframe and trailing arm mounts you're golden. >> Re-enforce those places and the car is fine. Weren't many RX-8 sold, > right. >> >> 2) I've been told that RX-8s get really shitty gas mileage. It'll make > the >> CTS-V look miserly. >> >> 3) I've recently jumped feet first into the engine management/tuning world >> for my race car. One thing I learned (via books) is that a rotary engine >> pings one time. Then it's dead. So if you're looking to do some serious >> mods on the car you better find someone that really knows how to tune > them. >> >> 4) The caddy while a fabulous street car, but I think it would take a lot > of >> upgrades to make it as trackable as an M3. While I'm absolutely > intoxicated >> with the torque out of the caddy motor, I don't have the desire to change >> it's street manners at all, except to maybe lower it a few inches so it >> doesn't look like it's ready to go four wheeling (which I may add it does >> just fine as evidenced by my spectacular off at T1 at Thill). >> >> Get an S54, dump it in a E36 chassis and have fun ;-) >> >> Marco >> 95 E36 M2.935 DM >> 02 Chevy Shrekmobile >> 04 CTS-V >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] >> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:02 AM >> To: E36M3 >> Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? >> >> >> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) >> From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? >> >> Close, but not quite :-) >> >> Street cars: >> E36M3 >> E39M5 >> Z06 >> E46330i >> CTS-V >> >> Race / track cars: >> '89 IROC - had for 10 years >> '91 Corvette - had for 6 years and still own >> >> I am re-evaluating my track-use and trying to decide if owning a dedicated >> track car plus the associated tow rig and trailer is really worth it. > I've >> been in that mode for more than 10 years and with the amount I get to the >> track (4-5 times / year) the strategy of a dedicated race car _ tow rig is >> making less and less sense. Especially since the C4 is a very expensive > car >> to campaign in a competitive road racing series and there is not much > place >> to run it anyway other than SCCA ITE. And I really don't have the time / >> budget to go whole-hog down that road. >> >> So I am considering my alternatives if I dump the race car which include: >> - street / track car capable of driving to/from events - such as E36 M3, > RX8 >> or Sub sti >> - run the CTS-V for track days >> >> running the CTS-V worries me because the car is worth a lot of coin and >> tracking can certainly cause some damage, plus the car does weigh 3850lbs > so >> while the handling is quite amazing for such a heavy car, it still is a >> heavy car and will be eating tires among other things. Brakes are simply >> outstanding, however - 4-piston brembos with 14-14.5" rotors all round!! >> >> Either way, I'm keeping the CTS-V as my street car. Love it - fits all my >> daily driver needs quite well. >> >> Scott >> >> Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Wasn't it you who did something like: >> >> E36M3 >> E39M5 >> E36M3 >> Corvette >> E36M3 >> ?? >> >> So here we go again? Well, if you do get a RX-8, we'll see ya back in a > few >> months ;) >> >> Chester >> >> --- Scott McClung wrote: >>> Has anyone here considered moving to (or has moved to) an RX8 as a dual >>> porpose street / track car? Seems to be a very equivalent if not better >>> handling car to the E36 M3, considering same HP, slightly less weight >>> (3000lbs), similar tires sizes, and evidence by the fact that 8 out of > the >>> top 9 finishers in Topeka in BS were driving them. Considering the E36 is >>> now a 15 year old platform and is getting to an age where maint and >> repairs >>> becomes a significant factor, and the RX8 is a brand new model with full >>> warrantee it seems like it would be an attractive option. Yes, I realize >> it >>> is butt-ugly :-) But wondering if anyone has considering going that route >> or >>> has gone that route from a previous E36 M3 DE type of track toy + street >>> sports car. >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> >> > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#9. RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from marco
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:45:11 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? It's not "bad", it's just old. A bit twitchier at the limit, an E36 is much more forgiving. Those E36s must have been driven poorly ;-) Seriously - a well driven E30 M3 can be very competitive, but IMO a good driver in equally prepared cars will have better lap times in an E36. I might be stepping out on a limb but by and large most E30 M3 drivers you find at the track are better drivers than their E36 brethren. They have to be. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 11:34 PM To: marco; E36M3 Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? Can't be that bad, I've seen plenty of E30 M3's that were as fast or faster than E36 M3's even tho down 50+ hp and more torque. on 11/14/05 11:11 PM, marco at m3driver@iname.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:02:58 -0800 > From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> > Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > yeah but then you still have an E30 rear suspension. bleck. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:13 PM > To: Marco Romani; E36M3 > Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? > > > If I were doing the motor swap thing, I'd be more inclined to do a S50 motor > in an E30 chassis - lighter, simpler, cheaper, etc. etc. That would fly. > > Scott > > on 11/14/05 9:53 PM, Marco Romani at mromani@valuescience.com wrote: > >> here's my two cents >> >> 1) Lots of E36s out there. Junk yard parts are easy to find. As long as >> you don't rip out the rear subframe and trailing arm mounts you're golden. >> Re-enforce those places and the car is fine. Weren't many RX-8 sold, > right. >> >> 2) I've been told that RX-8s get really shitty gas mileage. It'll make > the >> CTS-V look miserly. >> >> 3) I've recently jumped feet first into the engine management/tuning world >> for my race car. One thing I learned (via books) is that a rotary engine >> pings one time. Then it's dead. So if you're looking to do some serious >> mods on the car you better find someone that really knows how to tune > them. >> >> 4) The caddy while a fabulous street car, but I think it would take a lot > of >> upgrades to make it as trackable as an M3. While I'm absolutely > intoxicated >> with the torque out of the caddy motor, I don't have the desire to change >> it's street manners at all, except to maybe lower it a few inches so it >> doesn't look like it's ready to go four wheeling (which I may add it does >> just fine as evidenced by my spectacular off at T1 at Thill). >> >> Get an S54, dump it in a E36 chassis and have fun ;-) >> >> Marco >> 95 E36 M2.935 DM >> 02 Chevy Shrekmobile >> 04 CTS-V >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] >> Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:02 AM >> To: E36M3 >> Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? >> >> >> Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 10:00:22 -0800 (PST) >> From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? >> >> Close, but not quite :-) >> >> Street cars: >> E36M3 >> E39M5 >> Z06 >> E46330i >> CTS-V >> >> Race / track cars: >> '89 IROC - had for 10 years >> '91 Corvette - had for 6 years and still own >> >> I am re-evaluating my track-use and trying to decide if owning a dedicated >> track car plus the associated tow rig and trailer is really worth it. > I've >> been in that mode for more than 10 years and with the amount I get to the >> track (4-5 times / year) the strategy of a dedicated race car _ tow rig is >> making less and less sense. Especially since the C4 is a very expensive > car >> to campaign in a competitive road racing series and there is not much > place >> to run it anyway other than SCCA ITE. And I really don't have the time / >> budget to go whole-hog down that road. >> >> So I am considering my alternatives if I dump the race car which include: >> - street / track car capable of driving to/from events - such as E36 M3, > RX8 >> or Sub sti >> - run the CTS-V for track days >> >> running the CTS-V worries me because the car is worth a lot of coin and >> tracking can certainly cause some damage, plus the car does weigh 3850lbs > so >> while the handling is quite amazing for such a heavy car, it still is a >> heavy car and will be eating tires among other things. Brakes are simply >> outstanding, however - 4-piston brembos with 14-14.5" rotors all round!! >> >> Either way, I'm keeping the CTS-V as my street car. Love it - fits all my >> daily driver needs quite well. >> >> Scott >> >> Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: >> Wasn't it you who did something like: >> >> E36M3 >> E39M5 >> E36M3 >> Corvette >> E36M3 >> ?? >> >> So here we go again? Well, if you do get a RX-8, we'll see ya back in a > few >> months ;) >> >> Chester >> >> --- Scott McClung wrote: >>> Has anyone here considered moving to (or has moved to) an RX8 as a dual >>> porpose street / track car? Seems to be a very equivalent if not better >>> handling car to the E36 M3, considering same HP, slightly less weight >>> (3000lbs), similar tires sizes, and evidence by the fact that 8 out of > the >>> top 9 finishers in Topeka in BS were driving them. Considering the E36 is >>> now a 15 year old platform and is getting to an age where maint and >> repairs >>> becomes a significant factor, and the RX8 is a brand new model with full >>> warrantee it seems like it would be an attractive option. Yes, I realize >> it >>> is butt-ugly :-) But wondering if anyone has considering going that route >> or >>> has gone that route from a previous E36 M3 DE type of track toy + street >>> sports car. >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> >> > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#10. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 23:53:27 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RX8? On Nov 14, 2005, at 11:41 PM, Scott M wrote: > Can't be that bad, I've seen plenty of E30 M3's that were as fast > or faster > than E36 M3's even tho down 50+ hp and more torque. They weigh 300 lbs less. Ask me how I know. The M-Coupe is a great example of a car that weighs in at E36-levels but has the E30 rear suspension. It's, umm, not super-well regarded at the limit. - Mark E36 325is JP #117 ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar