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#1. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Scott M
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:09:25 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars So James, you are speaking from experience - better to do a E36 325 vs. E30 in your view? I think that is a reasonable approach. Better to find a car already built, but then again would not cost too much to roll my own either. on 11/15/05 8:51 AM, James Clay at james@bimmerworld.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:12:43 -0500 > From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars > > Or try an E36 325 if you want to stick with a BMW. With a good driver > it should be almost the fastest car on the track in any given school > weekend. And it is not nearly as frustrating as driving a power car > that passes on the straights, gets 1-2 turns before it is sucked up to > someone else's bumper. Easily built for $10k, add a 280+ horse M3 > engine for $3500 ballpark if you have to have more power in the future, > or engines are about $500 for these too now - if you dig. And if you > ever decide to go race, this will fit nicely into a class! > > > James Clay > http://www.bimmerworld.com <http://www.bimmerworld.com/> > http://www.bimmerworldracing.com <http://www.bimmerworldracing.com/> > Engineered BMW Performance > 540.639.9648 > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S - from Scott M
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:12:28 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S Z06 had pretty good steering feel and feedback, but I actually prefer the C4 steering... Much like BMW, GM is making the new products softer and gentler... which isn't better to guys like us.... but is for the 95% that buy the cars, so.. on 11/15/05 9:31 AM, Jon Phillips at jphillips@futurenetworkusa.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:24:39 -0800 > From: Jon Phillips <jphillips@futurenetworkusa.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S > > True enough, re., your Z06 vs Cayman S comparo. But I wasn't even > beginning to factor in price. In fact, I wasn't even looking at > horsepower or potential track times when I mentioned the Cayman. The > Cayman interests me because it's a mid-engined car with (apparently) > incredible chassis rigidity. Reportedly, it bears all of the Boxter's > best pure driving qualities, but also erases the Boxter's handling foibles. > > For me, it's more about fun factor and steering feel than track times... > I have heard that while Corvettes can be made to go blindingly fast, > they do so with a dead steering feel and feedback. The book on Boxsters, > meanwhile, is that they have great steering feel, weighting, feedback, > etc, but that they plow too much out of the box. I figure a well-tuned > Cayman -- or maybe even a stock Cayman -- should correct this. > > Anyhow, add in the "luxury" refinement and comfort of a $60K car, and > the Cayman becomes a very intriguing dual-purpose street/track car. > > on 11/15/2005 9:11 AM Alan Leung said the following: > >> Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:04:44 -0600 >> From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> >> Subject: RE: RX8 now Cayman S >> >> While I have always secretly hoped that the Boxster would be made in >> hardtop form I have a feeling that the Cayman is a bit on the "too >> little too late" side. A boxster can be had for more reasonable price >> now but as a convertible it's not very trackworthy. While the Cayman >> is a dream come true at 60G new it's got to be a >> street/occasional-track car and it'll be years before the price will >> come down enough for dedicated track use. At that pirce range the new >> Z06 should hands down be the best new choice for track. I think the >> Cayman is a very handsome car but with only 295 hp it's very hard to >> make the math work. >> >> Alan >> >>> >>> >>> Cayman S: Now THIS is car that looks incredible on paper. >> > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Scott M
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:13:36 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars If you hear of any good street or track cars in this vein come up for sale, keep me in mind and let me know. Scott on 11/15/05 9:32 AM, Mark Dadgar at mark@pdc-racing.net wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:30:19 -0800 > From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars > > On Nov 15, 2005, at 8:51 AM, James Clay wrote: >> Or try an E36 325 if you want to stick with a BMW. With a good driver >> it should be almost the fastest car on the track in any given school >> weekend. And it is not nearly as frustrating as driving a power car >> that passes on the straights, gets 1-2 turns before it is sucked up to >> someone else's bumper. Easily built for $10k, add a 280+ horse M3 >> engine for $3500 ballpark if you have to have more power in the >> future, >> or engines are about $500 for these too now - if you dig. And if you >> ever decide to go race, this will fit nicely into a class! > > I could not agree more! > > We are having a ton of fun out here in JP. Lots of really close racing. > > Here's some of my in-car from the Laguna club race a couple of weeks > back: > > http://www.dadgar.com/gallery/racing/laguna10-05/ > CRLaguna10-05SundayRace1.mov > > http://www.dadgar.com/gallery/racing/laguna10-05/ > CRLaguna10-05SundayRace2.mov > > Quicktime 7 required (H.264 codec). You can get that free from > http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download > > I qualified 14 of 38 on Saturday, ahead of a bunch of bigger motor > (ie IP and CM) cars. Naturally, they motored off into the distance > when the green dropped and (also due to some stupidity on my part) I > finished 24th. That race set the grid for both starts on Sunday, > unfortunately, so I ended up starting farther back than I normally > would. > > Laguna really rewards HP. > > Anyway, see if you can spot the part in race 2 that got my heart rate > up. > > - Mark > E36 325is JP #117 > ----- > mark@pdc-racing.net > > Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: > http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:18:00 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:13 AM, Scott M wrote: > If you hear of any good street or track cars in this vein come up > for sale, > keep me in mind and let me know. > Here's one: http://www.justracing.com/classified/173 - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Scott M
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:20:53 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars btw - what do track and street versions of the 325is E36 weigh? I would guess somewhere in the 3100# for the street car, maybe can get down to 3000 or so by removing a few things. What do the race cars weigh? 2700? Assuming still using glass windows, but removing side glass and gutting doors and etc. And factoring in a good light-wt cage. Buying a finished car is the way to go, having gone the build it myself route with the C4, if the goal is to race. But DIY might work to build a track / street car and then prep cost to go true racing won't be huge at that point - maybe 3-4K for the safety and you can go racing. I imagine engines are cheap for the 325's too, eh? Or even pick up a junkyard 2.8, but not sure what that does to the class situation. on 11/15/05 8:51 AM, James Clay at james@bimmerworld.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:12:43 -0500 > From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars > > Or try an E36 325 if you want to stick with a BMW. With a good driver > it should be almost the fastest car on the track in any given school > weekend. And it is not nearly as frustrating as driving a power car > that passes on the straights, gets 1-2 turns before it is sucked up to > someone else's bumper. Easily built for $10k, add a 280+ horse M3 > engine for $3500 ballpark if you have to have more power in the future, > or engines are about $500 for these too now - if you dig. And if you > ever decide to go race, this will fit nicely into a class! > > > James Clay > http://www.bimmerworld.com <http://www.bimmerworld.com/> > http://www.bimmerworldracing.com <http://www.bimmerworldracing.com/> > Engineered BMW Performance > 540.639.9648 > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Track cars - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:44:36 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars Here is our project car. Sorely in need of an update since we just won the VIR 13 hour with it and we are only on the maintenance writeup. http://www.bimmerworld.com/projects.htm I like the E36 vanos - has more power, timing chain engine, way better rear suspension, etc. And at this point, they don't cost much more. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com http://www.bimmerworldracing.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648 -----Original Message----- From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:09 PM To: James Clay; E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars So James, you are speaking from experience - better to do a E36 325 vs. E30 in your view? I think that is a reasonable approach. Better to find a car already built, but then again would not cost too much to roll my own either. on 11/15/05 8:51 AM, James Clay at james@bimmerworld.com wrote:
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Track cars - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:47:23 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars Weight is ballpark right, we race ITS at 2850 with driver, but you can get them down to 2400 with steel (not including driver). I get engines for under $500. I will have a couple for sale this winter - more racecar than cheap track car though. Email if interested. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com http://www.bimmerworldracing.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648 -----Original Message----- From: Scott M [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 2:21 PM To: James Clay; E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars btw - what do track and street versions of the 325is E36 weigh? I would guess somewhere in the 3100# for the street car, maybe can get down to 3000 or so by removing a few things. What do the race cars weigh? 2700? Assuming still using glass windows, but removing side glass and gutting doors and etc. And factoring in a good light-wt cage. Buying a finished car is the way to go, having gone the build it myself route with the C4, if the goal is to race. But DIY might work to build a track / street car and then prep cost to go true racing won't be huge at that point - maybe 3-4K for the safety and you can go racing. I imagine engines are cheap for the 325's too, eh? Or even pick up a junkyard 2.8, but not sure what that does to the class situation. on 11/15/05 8:51 AM, James Clay at james@bimmerworld.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:12:43 -0500 > From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars > > Or try an E36 325 if you want to stick with a BMW. With a good driver > it should be almost the fastest car on the track in any given school > weekend. And it is not nearly as frustrating as driving a power car > that passes on the straights, gets 1-2 turns before it is sucked up to > someone else's bumper. Easily built for $10k, add a 280+ horse M3 > engine for $3500 ballpark if you have to have more power in the > future, or engines are about $500 for these too now - if you dig. And > if you ever decide to go race, this will fit nicely into a class! > > > James Clay > http://www.bimmerworld.com <http://www.bimmerworld.com/> > http://www.bimmerworldracing.com <http://www.bimmerworldracing.com/> > Engineered BMW Performance > 540.639.9648 > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 11:25:59 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars On Nov 15, 2005, at 11:22 AM, Scott M wrote: > What do the race cars weigh? 2700? Assuming still using glass > windows, but > removing side glass and gutting doors and etc. And factoring in a > good > light-wt cage. Depends on the class. Class minimum for a JP E36 325is is 2900lbs *with* driver. My car weighs 2955 with me in it and I weigh about 200lbs, so I need to get another 50lbs out of the car. But in any case it means the car weighs 2750 or so. - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Track cars - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:57:49 -0600 From: Jamie Howton <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Track cars James, How did you close up the sunroof hole on your project car? Thanks -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Track cars - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 16:32:16 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Track cars The cheap/easy way. Cut 1"x.5" tabs out of plate steel, use 2 front, 2 rear, and one on each end. Weld them on the body, butting into the downward lip. The sunroof panel will rest on them. Bend up if needed or clearance the panel with a grinder to get a flat surface. Tack it all in. It you put a lot of heat in, it will warp the roof. Then tape around the bottom and run caulk around the top. Use a wet finger to smooth - you can make it look great or like junk in this step. You can either match the caulk to the body color or paint it if you are painting the car. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com http://www.bimmerworldracing.com Engineered BMW Performance 540.639.9648 James, How did you close up the sunroof hole on your project car? Thanks -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL