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#1. Re: [E36M3] RX8? - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:34:47 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? >Now we could start a whole thread on how one person's preferred set up >results in a car undriveable for another person. I like a car set up to >oversteer a bit, I could see how someone that doesn't could have problems >with my car and spin the be-jeezus out of it. I'm had the majority of seat >time in an E36 - so I'm pretty well attuned to the way they feel. E30's >feel twitchy to me at the limit, but I've had maybe 1/20th the time in an >E30. Hell my caddy feels less twitchy than an E30 ;-) I've never heard anyone describe an E30 as twitchy, as you said perhaps there was something wrong with the E30's suspension or alignment. :-P I described mine as more of a go-kart, semi-lightweight with incredible handling and I have never thought of the rear suspension as a drawback. I like the E36 M3's handling as well but my one issue with it is all that weight, you can feel it *everywhere*. Oh well, perhaps the perfect car for me is one of those E30 frankenbimmers with an S50/52/yurro motor in it. Someday perhaps. :-) Carlos. 98 M3
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#2. Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from Jon@treehouseracing.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:55:48 -0600 From: "Jon@treehouseracing.com" <jon@treehouseracing.com> Subject: Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Carlos et al - Yes an E30 with worn rear bushings will be extremely twitchy as the rear tires will be pointing outward (positive toe) this is like unwanted 4 wheel steering. But even a straight running E30 may be perceived as twitchy when you're an E36 driver. Ok, don't get all bent out of shape here people, this is merely my OPINION: E36 Drivers are in the Matrix. All seems well and beautiful. Your world is pretty and neat. Also seems like the norm. While driving, you think you're eyes are open and you think you know what's going on. See, E36's lie to their drivers and tell them what they want to hear: "yeah, go ahead, it'll be fine" they say that and are right most of the time, but when pushed, they will tell you that everything is alright until it's wayyy too late, when they simply whisper "oops". Meanwhile you're grabbing as much wheel and brake as possible while the car spins off into all sorts of ugly places. Afterward, most honest drivers will tell you they are not quite sure 100% what specifically happened. E30 Drivers have taken the proverbial Red Pill. They are quite awake and reminded of it frequently. It's not as pretty a place, a bit louder, a bit dirtier. The E30 car sugar coats NOTHING. A careful, deliberate but modest input has the car agreeing with you, but start pushing and it will say: "I would'nt do that if I were you" A little more and the E30 starts to push or get loose and it let's you know it really doesn't appreciate your input. A last second, abrupt turn of the wheel under gas and the car screams: "What the hell are you thinking? Are you stupid!?" As you wickedly lose traction and spin into oblivion. It's a harsher world, but at least it's real. More opinion and experience: I have instructed quite a few E36 drivers and I will say, "did you feel that" just after the rear got light a little or started to slip. 9 times out of 10 they will say: "huh? no." Before you burn me at the stake, let me say that if an E36 is prepared to the matched level of an E30, the e36 will beat it. Now, that is a FACT. Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi - DM #052 TreehouseRacing.com M50conversion.com 615.333.9118 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:34:47 -0500 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > >>Now we could start a whole thread on how one person's preferred set up >>results in a car undriveable for another person. I like a car set up to >>oversteer a bit, I could see how someone that doesn't could have problems >>with my car and spin the be-jeezus out of it. I'm had the majority of > seat >>time in an E36 - so I'm pretty well attuned to the way they feel. E30's >>feel twitchy to me at the limit, but I've had maybe 1/20th the time in an >>E30. Hell my caddy feels less twitchy than an E30 ;-) > > I've never heard anyone describe an E30 as twitchy, as you said perhaps > there was something wrong with the E30's suspension or alignment. :-P > > I described mine as more of a go-kart, semi-lightweight with incredible > handling and I have never thought of the rear suspension as a drawback. I > like the E36 M3's handling as well but my one issue with it is all that > weight, you can feel it *everywhere*. Oh well, perhaps the perfect car > for > me is one of those E30 frankenbimmers with an S50/52/yurro motor in it. > Someday perhaps. :-) > > Carlos. > 98 M3 > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: ABS/ASC Light - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:16:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: ABS/ASC Light On Tue, November 15, 2005 11:01 am, Stan Shaw said: > Would the BMW dealer have the right diagnostic tools? At least the > scanner > will tell me which wheel the problem is at, even if not whether it is the > wire or not, correct? Hi Stan, Yes, the dealer most certainly would have the proper tool to read the fault code from the ABS computer, as possibly a good independent. However, having BTDT on my '98 M3, I'll wager it's the Brake Pedal Travel Sensor. Easy to replace yourself, about $100 or so in parts for the sensor kit. From my post of Dec 31, 2003, in part: P/N 34 33 1 182 594 (list price $110.48) This is the repair kit which gets you the switch, o-ring, couple of circlips and several colored plastic end caps for the shaft of the switch. Note the color of the plastic end cap of the old switch and install the same one on the new switch. Use the o-ring on the new switch. I didn't see one on the old one, and installed the new one without it at first. Vacuum leak resulted :-) Cheers, Jim Bassett
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#4. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from marco
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:21:20 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Jon, Amusing analogy. I do agree the E30 probably does a better job of telegraphing it's at the limit, but I believe the inherent design of the E36 suspension is better and in a skilled driver's hands that is able to recognize when its approaching the limit will have better lap times. Of course a well driven E30 will beat a poorly driven E36. Which car is more fun to drive? Probably the E30. Which one will win more races? The E36. I actually would love to try one of the E30/S50/52 transplants. I would imagine an S54 in an E30 wouldn't be that much harder to do than a S50/52. That could be interesting ;-) I most definitely agree with your last paragraph. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Jon@treehouseracing.com [mailto:jon@treehouseracing.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:02 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:55:48 -0600 From: "Jon@treehouseracing.com" <jon@treehouseracing.com> Subject: Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Carlos et al - Yes an E30 with worn rear bushings will be extremely twitchy as the rear tires will be pointing outward (positive toe) this is like unwanted 4 wheel steering. But even a straight running E30 may be perceived as twitchy when you're an E36 driver. Ok, don't get all bent out of shape here people, this is merely my OPINION: E36 Drivers are in the Matrix. All seems well and beautiful. Your world is pretty and neat. Also seems like the norm. While driving, you think you're eyes are open and you think you know what's going on. See, E36's lie to their drivers and tell them what they want to hear: "yeah, go ahead, it'll be fine" they say that and are right most of the time, but when pushed, they will tell you that everything is alright until it's wayyy too late, when they simply whisper "oops". Meanwhile you're grabbing as much wheel and brake as possible while the car spins off into all sorts of ugly places. Afterward, most honest drivers will tell you they are not quite sure 100% what specifically happened. E30 Drivers have taken the proverbial Red Pill. They are quite awake and reminded of it frequently. It's not as pretty a place, a bit louder, a bit dirtier. The E30 car sugar coats NOTHING. A careful, deliberate but modest input has the car agreeing with you, but start pushing and it will say: "I would'nt do that if I were you" A little more and the E30 starts to push or get loose and it let's you know it really doesn't appreciate your input. A last second, abrupt turn of the wheel under gas and the car screams: "What the hell are you thinking? Are you stupid!?" As you wickedly lose traction and spin into oblivion. It's a harsher world, but at least it's real. More opinion and experience: I have instructed quite a few E36 drivers and I will say, "did you feel that" just after the rear got light a little or started to slip. 9 times out of 10 they will say: "huh? no." Before you burn me at the stake, let me say that if an E36 is prepared to the matched level of an E30, the e36 will beat it. Now, that is a FACT. Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi - DM #052 TreehouseRacing.com M50conversion.com 615.333.9118 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:34:47 -0500 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > >>Now we could start a whole thread on how one person's preferred set up >>results in a car undriveable for another person. I like a car set up to >>oversteer a bit, I could see how someone that doesn't could have problems >>with my car and spin the be-jeezus out of it. I'm had the majority of > seat >>time in an E36 - so I'm pretty well attuned to the way they feel. E30's >>feel twitchy to me at the limit, but I've had maybe 1/20th the time in an >>E30. Hell my caddy feels less twitchy than an E30 ;-) > > I've never heard anyone describe an E30 as twitchy, as you said perhaps > there was something wrong with the E30's suspension or alignment. :-P > > I described mine as more of a go-kart, semi-lightweight with incredible > handling and I have never thought of the rear suspension as a drawback. I > like the E36 M3's handling as well but my one issue with it is all that > weight, you can feel it *everywhere*. Oh well, perhaps the perfect car > for > me is one of those E30 frankenbimmers with an S50/52/yurro motor in it. > Someday perhaps. :-) > > Carlos. > 98 M3 > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: ABS/ASC Light - from Stan Shaw
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:41:08 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: ABS/ASC Light Hi Jim, Thanks, any way to verify the switch function, maybe with a jumper wire? Regards, Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from Reid Conti
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:45:53 -0800 From: Reid Conti <reid@conti.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix > Carlos et al - > > Yes an E30 with worn rear bushings will be extremely twitchy as the rear > tires will be pointing outward (positive toe) this is like unwanted 4 wheel > steering. By rear bushings do you mean RTABs or subframe bushings? > I have instructed quite a few E36 drivers and I will say, "did you feel > that" just after the rear got light a little or started to slip. 9 times out > of 10 they will say: "huh? no." Interesting. That makes a lot of sense to me. I always found it pretty easy to control powerslides and such (in the rain) in my 95 M3. The only spin I had was on mostly dry ground (just a light sprinkling), pushing it a bit, and the back end came around so fast I was shocked.. but then again, I had only owned the car for a few days, and it turned out the spin was due to a 6psi outside rear tire on that sharp corner.. explains it all! Anyway, the car was totally predictable, but I didn't notice rear end movement until it actually started to slide, it was harder to notice it being "loose." My 00 M Coupe I haven't driven at the limits as much, although I DID do a car control clinic in it (never did one in the M3). It is twitchier, and the back end came around really quick on me once in the wet (I mean really quick), but I have thus far chalked up the handling quirks/differences to the subframe bushings (putting in IE subframe bushings this weekend) and the fact that you sit back against the rear wheels... so my experience with the back end getting loose in the MC is like what it would be like to be in the back seat of the M3 when it got loose... FWIW, near the limits I feel the back end of the coupe bumping a bit before it goes (but it rarely goes since I have sticky S03's on the rear and bald tires up front!) - reid
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#7. Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:14:04 -0800 (PST) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S I completely agree - I know I sure don't, that is part of why I was able to obtain within 5mph corner speeds in an E36 M3 that wasn't even my car, so I was driving it well under control at a back to back drive with my Z06 at THill earlier this year. Hell of a point. And part of why I am questioning the logic behind continuing to build the monster C4 that I am building - it would take someone with the capabilities of Boris Said to really drive it well. Not sure I will ever get there..... Which is why my track time, limited as it has been - in an E36 M3 was about my favorite track experience. The car is magical at a place like Laguna, for example. More fun to drive than a C4 with 400hp anyway..... Scott docwyte@comcast.net wrote: No doubt that the Z06 is the best bang for the buck. I'd rather have a Cayman tho. Seriously, do any of us really have the skills to wheel a Z06 around the track to its potential? I think a Cayman is probably more car than most of us can exploit... -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:18:15 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott McClung > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S > > Previous C5 Z06 ran 3.9sec 0-60, C&D clocked the new one at 3.3 I think. > > Alan Leung wrote:Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 15:48:13 > -0600 > From: "Alan Leung" > Subject: RE: RX8 now Cayman S > > My comment was based on the track car thread and while I agree the Cayman is > no sloth (flame suit on) but for pure preformance it's going to be hard to > compare that to the 0-60 time of 4.2s of the Z06 which apparently can lap > the 'Ring as fast as a GT3. > > >-------------------- 9 -------------------- > >Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 18:52:49 +0000 > >From: docwyte@comcast.net > >Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S > > > >What math? With 295hp, the Cayman does 0-60mph in 4.8 seconds. That's > >plenty fast. > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support ! the E36M 3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:28:00 -0800 (PST) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Interesting story and analogy there Jon. I must say that a stock C5 Z06 is very much like the E36 M3 that you describe below that it completely sucks it's driver into over-confidence and then can snap with absolutely no warning when you push it 5% more. Been there, done that. Cost me couple tho..... :-( At least the E36 isn't so powerful and with such high limits that you are carrying a bit less speed when it loses all comprehension of grip with the surface, so maybe there is a chance of less serious concequences that way. In all my time driving the E36 M3 spirited on the street and a couple track days I never went past that point with it - except that one time in the wet on T9 at Laguna which is an off camber fast sweeping downhill corner, and it didn't take much speed to lose grip in the wet - felt like slow motion, but there was as you say zero warning it just snapped. But I never got to that point in the dry with that car. Much easier to get there in a C5 Z06. I can only imagine the hell of trying to competently drive the C6 Z06. I personally have no desire to own one. The C5 was stupid scary fast already. Adding 100hp won't help matters much. Not for me.... I'm almost thinking my buddy with his NSX might have it more right than I used to think, not that he ever pushes it in his particular car, but the steering feel and feedback in that car is simply unreal. I am pretty sure I've driven it harder than he has, btw :-) Yes, he was with me. No, he wasn't smiling :-) But he is not a track driver.... Scott "Jon@treehouseracing.com" <jon@treehouseracing.com> wrote: Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:55:48 -0600 From: "Jon@treehouseracing.com" Subject: Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Carlos et al - Yes an E30 with worn rear bushings will be extremely twitchy as the rear tires will be pointing outward (positive toe) this is like unwanted 4 wheel steering. But even a straight running E30 may be perceived as twitchy when you're an E36 driver. Ok, don't get all bent out of shape here people, this is merely my OPINION: E36 Drivers are in the Matrix. All seems well and beautiful. Your world is pretty and neat. Also seems like the norm. While driving, you think you're eyes are open and you think you know what's going on. See, E36's lie to their drivers and tell them what they want to hear: "yeah, go ahead, it'll be fine" they say that and are right most of the time, but when pushed, they will tell you that everything is alright until it's wayyy too late, when they simply whisper "oops". Meanwhile you're grabbing as much wheel and brake as possible while the car spins off into all sorts of ugly places. Afterward, most honest drivers will tell you they are not quite sure 100% what specifically happened. E30 Drivers have taken the proverbial Red Pill. They are quite awake and reminded of it frequently. It's not as pretty a place, a bit louder, a bit dirtier. The E30 car sugar coats NOTHING. A careful, deliberate but modest input has the car agreeing with you, but start pushing and it will say: "I would'nt do that if I were you" A little more and the E30 starts to push or get loose and it let's you know it really doesn't appreciate your input. A last second, abrupt turn of the wheel under gas and the car screams: "What the hell are you thinking? Are you stupid!?" As you wickedly lose traction and spin into oblivion. It's a harsher world, but at least it's real. More opinion and experience: I have instructed quite a few E36 drivers and I will say, "did you feel that" just after the rear got light a little or started to slip. 9 times out of 10 they will say: "huh? no." Before you burn me at the stake, let me say that if an E36 is prepared to the matched level of an E30, the e36 will beat it. Now, that is a FACT. Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi - DM #052 TreehouseRacing.com M50conversion.com 615.333.9118 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "E36M3" Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 20:34:47 -0500 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RX8? > >>Now we could start a whole thread on how one person's preferred set up >>results in a car undriveable for another person. I like a car set up to >>oversteer a bit, I could see how someone that doesn't could have problems >>with my car and spin the be-jeezus out of it. I'm had the majority of > seat >>time in an E36 - so I'm pretty well attuned to the way they feel. E30's >>feel twitchy to me at the limit, but I've had maybe 1/20th the time in an >>E30. Hell my caddy feels less twitchy than an E30 ;-) > > I've never heard anyone describe an E30 as twitchy, as you said perhaps > there was something wrong with the E30's suspension or alignment. :-P > > I described mine as more of a go-kart, semi-lightweight with incredible > handling and I have never thought of the rear suspension as a drawback. I > like the E36 M3's handling as well but my one issue with it is all that > weight, you can feel it *everywhere*. Oh well, perhaps the perfect car > for > me is one of those E30 frankenbimmers with an S50/52/yurro motor in it. > Someday perhaps. :-) > > Carlos. > 98 M3 > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#9. Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S - from docwyte@comcast.net
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 05:30:47 +0000 From: docwyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S Esp when the writers of both C&D and R&T described the new Z06 as a real handful on the track... Hell, my 944 turbo S is more car that I can exploit at this time, even on its stock suspension etc. It's got plenty of power, that's not the issue, it's more the nut behind the wheel! I do a passable job getting it around the track, enough so it takes someone with real skill to get by me with a car at a similar or gerater power level than I have, but I know I'm still leaving tons on the table. -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:14:04 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott McClung > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: RX8 now Cayman S > > I completely agree - I know I sure don't, that is part of why I was able to > obtain within 5mph corner speeds in an E36 M3 that wasn't even my car, so I was > driving it well under control at a back to back drive with my Z06 at THill > earlier this year. Hell of a point. And part of why I am questioning the logic > behind continuing to build the monster C4 that I am building - it would take > someone with the capabilities of Boris Said to really drive it well. Not sure I > will ever get there..... Which is why my track time, limited as it has been - > in an E36 M3 was about my favorite track experience. The car is magical at a > place like Laguna, for example. More fun to drive than a C4 with 400hp > anyway..... > > Scott > > docwyte@comcast.net wrote: > No doubt that the Z06 is the best bang for the buck. I'd rather have a Cayman > tho. Seriously, do any of us really have the skills to wheel a Z06 around the > track to its potential? I think a Cayman is probably more car than most of us > can exploit... >
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#10. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from Walter J
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Date: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 00:53:32 -0500 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Twitchy E30 and the Matrix marco wrote: >> >>I described mine as more of a go-kart, semi-lightweight with incredible >>handling and I have never thought of the rear suspension as a drawback. >> It is... its the reason you have to wait to get on the power while the guy next to you is flat and walking away. The E30 feels great, I drive one every day. But, like sex - sometimes you finish better wearing a condom.