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#1. [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing - from Jason Knight
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:02:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> Subject: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing I think Gerry may be referring to beginners that don't know how to put a car on the track, have gobs of power under their right foot, are used to thinking they're fast because they tailgate on the freeway, and think that they're Schuey (or Alonso or Jr. or whomever). I left DSC on for my first few track days, despite the jabs from my friends that had been tracking their cars for a few years. After about three track events I was going through a long right hand sweeper and noticed that I was being limited and promptly turned it off. Until they at least know the line, having a governor ain't a bad thing. Jason --- Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:37:00 -0500 > From: Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the > Matrix > > Gerry, > > Really? With the DSC on? Are you being facetious > or serious? > > The DSC, IMHO, will only serve to further mask the > behaviour of the > car on the track and give the student a stronger > sense of > invincibility as the car will save him/her 100% of > the time. In a > downpour (as we've experienced at Mosport or > Tremblant before) is a > different story, but in dry conditions, the DSC > won't really let the > student learn anything, again IMHO. > > -- > Roy - '99 M3 Estoril Blue > > On 11/17/05, Gerry Low <gerry@parallel-mkt.com> > wrote: > > Roy, > > The DSC should be left on. > > Gerry > > > > Roy Kao said: > > So here's a question: how do we as instructors > adapt to these ever faster cars to better instruct > students of all levels to make sure that both we and > the students get to go home in one piece after a > school? > >
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#2. Re: Stiff steering - from Stan Shaw
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:04:39 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Re: Stiff steering Hi Dave, I have recently replaced my steering rack (due to some "slack" in the steering), and the end result was stiffer steering. Bizarrely (at least to me) is that the "no return to center" started occurring just before I changed the rack, so I have been suspecting the pump as well. So I have both symptoms that you do, and the rack was just replaced. I was wondering if the rebuilt rack just needed some time to break in. Perhaps the pump is another component likely in need of replacement at 150k+ miles (in my case). The pump being a @$300 part is something I haven't replaced yet. I am interested in other's experience. Regards, Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:20:40 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering I knew it was only a matter of time before Stan chimed in :) Well, I know on my car, I was having the squeaky steering wheel when turning the wheel. People used to think it was the slip ring, but it turned out to be the bearing on the bottom of the steering column. When I R&R'ed mine, that bearing was completely rusted and shot. Now, it's a small bearing, but I'm wondering if yours could be seized? The jiggling to loosen it up and throw the seized balls one way to loosen it, etc... Just my thoughts, Chester --- Stan Shaw <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> wrote: > I have recently replaced my steering rack (due to some "slack" in the > steering), and the end result was stiffer steering. > > Bizarrely (at least to me) is that the "no return to center" started > occurring just before I changed the rack, so I have been suspecting the pump > as well. So I have both symptoms that you do, and the rack was just > replaced.
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering - from Stan Shaw
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:27:30 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering Hi Chester, Explain more please. I replaced the top plastic bearing, but still have the squeaky steering wheel. When I had everything apart I didn't find any bad bearings but I could have missed something, I know I was pretty aggravated when I was dealing with the column. Is there an easy way to deal with it? Regards, Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering - from Christopher Bauer
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:33:08 -0600 From: Christopher Bauer <chrisbauer@vzavenue.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering when I replaced my rack on my e30 I experienced no 'break in time' I'd look somewhere else for the problem, unless you installed it incorrectly. Chris ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:11:43 -0500 >From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> >Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 11:04:39 -0500 >From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> >Subject: Re: Stiff steering > > >I was wondering if the rebuilt rack just needed some time to break in. > >Perhaps the pump is another component likely in need of replacement at 150k+ >miles (in my case). The pump being a @$300 part is something I haven't >replaced yet. > >I am interested in other's experience. > >Regards, >Stan Shaw
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:50:29 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering Yeah...the top bearing is protected from the elements and was probably perfectly fine. To get to the bottom bearing, you have to remove the two shear bolts that hold the column in place. When I did it, I could only see what appeared to be rivets...so I took lots of time to grind/cut them away. Of course, you benefit from my experience because I can tell you that they screw in and all you have to do is grind flats in them and use a screwdriver to remove them. You also have to remove everything from the bottom/firewall side. There is a lock ring/column setup where the steering column passes through the firewall on the interior side. You twist that CCW (IIRC) and then you should be able to take the column off. The only downside is all the wires are still attached so you can't get the column completely out of the car; however, you should be able to remove the rusted out retaining clips and stuff and replace that crap bearing. I packed a lot of grease and then some to avoid having crap go in to contaminate again. Good luck, Chester --- Stan Shaw <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> wrote: > Explain more please. I replaced the top plastic bearing, but still have the > squeaky steering wheel. When I had everything apart I didn't find any bad > bearings but I could have missed something, I know I was pretty aggravated > when I was dealing with the column. Is there an easy way to deal with it?
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering - from Matthew Teel
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:04:02 -0900 From: "Matthew Teel" <mteel@beluga.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering Is this procedure documented anywhere that anyone knows about? I think I need to add this to my ever lengthening list of maintenance items to perform this winter. My steering wheel started to squeak just last week. Matthew 98 M3/4 > -----Original Message----- > From: Chester Wong [mailto:chester_p_wong@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, November 18, 2005 7:52 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering > > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:50:29 -0800 (PST) > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Stiff steering > > Yeah...the top bearing is protected from the elements and was > probably perfectly fine. To get to the bottom bearing, you > have to remove the two shear bolts that hold the column in > place. When I did it, I could only see what appeared to be > rivets...so I took lots of time to grind/cut them away. Of > course, you benefit from my experience because I can tell you > that they screw in and all you have to do is grind flats in > them > ...
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#8. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing - from debuhr@comcast.net
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:19:37 +0000 From: debuhr@comcast.net Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing FWIW, from a student's perspective, I left DSC on for my one and only track day at Thill. Dry track. I felt DSC engage all the time. I always turn it off on the street (I'm a baaaaaad boy :)) and it was very obvious to me when it was engaging. If I turned it off, I'm fairly confident that I would have been fine, but you never know. It was a long drive home and my goal was to kep my shiny car shiny and learn about the line and get used to brakong points an stuff. The fact that DSC was engaging frequently tells me that I was overdriving with regard to my knowledge of the line and track experience. If anything, DSC taught me an important lesson and allowed me to keep my nice M3 in one piece. That might have been the most important lesson of the day. I know I might have felt and learned more with it off. However, I feel I made good improvements throughout the day, kept my car, myself, and most importantly to me, my instructor in one piece. Having said that, I'm glad I used it. After one or two more events, when I feel like I'm ready, and the instructor approves, I'll turn it off and learn some more. > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 08:02:13 -0800 (PST) > From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> > Subject: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing > > I think Gerry may be referring to beginners that don't > know how to put a car on the track, have gobs of power > under their right foot, are used to thinking they're > fast because they tailgate on the freeway, and think > that they're Schuey (or Alonso or Jr. or whomever). I > left DSC on for my first few track days, despite the > jabs from my friends that had been tracking their cars > for a few years. After about three track events I was > going through a long right hand sweeper and noticed > that I was being limited and promptly turned it off. > Until they at least know the line, having a governor > ain't a bad thing. > > Jason > > --- Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:37:00 -0500 > > From: Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the > > Matrix > > > > Gerry, > > > > Really? With the DSC on? Are you being facetious > > or serious? > > > > The DSC, IMHO, will only serve to further mask the > > behaviour of the > > car on the track and give the student a stronger > > sense of > > invincibility as the car will save him/her 100% of > > the time. In a > > downpour (as we've experienced at Mosport or > > Tremblant before) is a > > different story, but in dry conditions, the DSC > > won't really let the > > student learn anything, again IMHO. > > > > -- > > Roy - '99 M3 Estoril Blue > > > > On 11/17/05, Gerry Low <gerry@parallel-mkt.com> > > wrote: > > > Roy, > > > The DSC should be left on. > > > Gerry > > > > > > Roy Kao said: > > > So here's a question: how do we as instructors > > adapt to these ever faster cars to better instruct > > students of all levels to make sure that both we and > > the students get to go home in one piece after a > > school? > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:28:08 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> >I left DSC on for my first few track days, despite the >jabs from my friends that had been tracking their cars >for a few years. After about three track events I was >going through a long right hand sweeper and noticed >that I was being limited and promptly turned it off. >Until they at least know the line, having a governor >ain't a bad thing. Shoot, I did a whole club racing school with the ASC on. They kept us very busy and I was new to driving that car and not once did I even think about the ASC, I kept complaining of fuel starvation as it seemed to only happen on RH corners and neither of my two buddies there asked me about the ASC. On the drive home one asked, "you did turn off the ASC while on track correct?" Me: "D'oh!!" It wasn't a problem it would just slow me down in a couple of places but I can see that if you loose the back end that the ASC lifting for you isn't going to do you any favors, DSC is probably more sophisticated (at least I hope so) so that may not be an issue. That same buddy that was with me spun his M Coupe because the ASC was on but the calibration in the E36 M3 is better than on the M Coupe. The M3 will allow a little aggressiveness before it steps in, the M Coupe will not, it takes away the throttle very early on. Carlos. 98 M3
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#10. Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:29:32 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and Instructing On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:21 AM, debuhr@comcast.net wrote: > The fact that DSC was engaging frequently tells me that I was > overdriving with regard to my knowledge of the line and track > experience. If anything, DSC taught me an important lesson and > allowed me to keep my nice M3 in one piece. That might have been > the most important lesson of the day. Did you have any rear brake pad left at the end? :) - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar