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#1. Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from Jason Knight
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:27:07 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the Matrix A very hard pill, which is why I have a Nissan Sentra in the driveway next to the M3. Car cost $1800, I have maybe another $1000 into it, most expensive item to replace is an axle, which is $400, which is more than the cost of an engine. I had a e30 that was going to be the track car, but this car will get built for the ser cup series, which is cheap and fun. Only downside is that now I'm the guy giving point bys, which frankly isn't as fun as getting them. As I got faster the financial risk was starting to slow me down. Jason --- docwyte@comcast.net wrote: > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:59:20 +0000 > From: docwyte@comcast.net > Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the > Matrix > > Unfortunately with the cars being written off, most > insurance policies aren't covering the damages. > That's a hard pill to swallow on a relatively new > and expensive car... >
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#2. Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the Matrix - from docwyte@comcast.net
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:49:15 +0000 From: docwyte@comcast.net Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the Matrix Tell me about it. When I went shopping for a track car I didn't want to spend more than $5k. Unfortunately I couldn't find anything decent in that price range that was rwd. Then I got frustrated and bought the 951S at more double my budget. Then I added all the safety gear (seats, harnesses and rollbar) and now I realize I have a track car that's about triple the initial amount I wanted to spend. Doh. -------------- Original message -------------- > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:27:07 -0800 (PST) > From: Jason Knight > Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the Matrix > > A very hard pill, which is why I have a Nissan Sentra > in the driveway next to the M3. Car cost $1800, I have > maybe another $1000 into it, most expensive item to > replace is an axle, which is $400, which is more than > the cost of an engine. I had a e30 that was going to > be the track car, but this car will get built for the > ser cup series, which is cheap and fun. > > Only downside is that now I'm the guy giving point > bys, which frankly isn't as fun as getting them. > > As I got faster the financial risk was starting to > slow me down. > > Jason > > --- docwyte@comcast.net wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:59:20 +0000 > > From: docwyte@comcast.net > > Subject: Re: Re: [E36M3] E36M3 Twitchy E30 and the > > Matrix > > > > Unfortunately with the cars being written off, most > > insurance policies aren't covering the damages. > > That's a hard pill to swallow on a relatively new > > and expensive car... > > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member - from Mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:55:44 EST From: Mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member Welocome back, Scott. If I were to ever sell my M3 I was thinking it would take a 911 Porsche to do so? But, you gave that up? For a back seat? You still have the same amount of time as yesterday (can't sell the kid...believe me it only gets more time consuming...but in a good way). How about your honest opinion of the two machines, granted the cost factor is way different. I sat in a new Carrera last week, wow, what a high quality feel...but the sticker said $95K...started me thinking...buy a 350Z as a daily driving, keep the 97M3 for the track, and pocket the change! Am I way off base here? cheers, Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA 2005 Philly Region BSP Champion
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#4. Turner Brake Kit - from Jeff Bjerke
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:19:57 -0600 From: "Jeff Bjerke" <jbjerke@charter.net> Subject: Turner Brake Kit About a month ago I was discussing the front brake kit on my E36 M3 race car. It was from Turner Motorsport and used 840 4-pot pads and E46 M3 rotors. Someone replied to me indicating they had one of these kits and wanted to sell it. I can not remember who this was. If you read this, please respond to jbjerke@charter.net Thanks- Jeff
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#5. WTB: set of SSR 18x8.5 wheels - from mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 13:55:04 -0500 From: mdriver13@aol.com Subject: WTB: set of SSR 18x8.5 wheels Group, I'm wondering if anyone has a set of 18x8.5 SSR GT1 or Competition wheels they are interested in selling or even a trade plus cash for my set of 17x8 SSR Integral 2 wheels in very good condition???? regards, Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA 2005 Philly Region BSP Champion
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#6. RE: Clutch R&R - Summary and Results - from FranKirsten
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:56:23 -0700 From: "FranKirsten" <frankirsten@msn.com> Subject: RE: Clutch R&R - Summary and Results Glad to hear your as satisfied as I was after that flywheel/clutch setup. It is quite a nice upgrade to do when one has to replace a clutch anyways. I found it to be one of the best add-ons I put into my M3. Cordially, Frank
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#7. Re: [E36M3] How long will you keep your E36 M3? - from Roy Kao
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:18:38 -0500 From: Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How long will you keep your E36 M3? I've had mine new since Novermber of 1998 and there were a couple of moments when the E36 would've been gone but decided to keep it. I was going to replace with the E46 M3 but decided that I eventually want a dedicated track car and didn't want one that weighed 3,400 lbs. Then recently, thought about getting a new toy like the Porsche 997S or even an Aston Martin V8 Vantage...but then found out we're expecting! So much for those best laid plans... So, bit the bullet and bought a 2nd hand aluminum trailer this fall and the M3 is at the shop getting a comprehensive track car reengineering as I write this...so the E36 will be in my possession for a few years longer! -- Roy - '99 M3 Estoril Blue > > Just curious, with the recent talk about E30s and E36s. How long do you > expect to keep your E36 M3? > > I have had my '96 M3 for 7.5 years, and intend to keep it FOREVER. > > Regards, > Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net > Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 > Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ > 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ > 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ > > "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams
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#8. RE: [E36M3] intro, new old member - from Scott
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:19:52 -0800 From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] intro, new old member Sure, a quick? Comparison of the 911 and m3 The rough progression for me was 911 ('03 996) -> Kid 18mos later -> Honda Pilot added to the mix because our S4 Avant turned out to be a microcar when it came to carrying infant seats and all the other crap -> not driving the 996 at all and watching money evaporate (depreciation) in the garage. I figured I wouldn't drive it much at all for the next year, and that it would depreciate at the rate of about another 8-10g this year (especially w/the cayman coming into the product mix) The lack of usage, coupled w/quite a bit of frustration w/the car including a very notchy gearbox (full $12k replacement thankfully under warranty), constant shimmy problems, and oil pressure (wet sump, would lose oil pressure on cloverleafs...) and general robustness issues led me to get rid of it. I drove the Pilot exclusively for ~6mos while I figured out what to buy (what a rolling castration that is for a car guy), and driving an e36 m3 again made it all clear. FWIW, the 996 depreciated more in 2 years than the M3 cost to purchase -- quite a bit more :) As for the e46 m3 or the 997, for some reason the e46 m3 has never done it for me. I think it's the weight gain. The 997 is an amazing machine, but it's also a very technically sophisticated car and I'm not a fan of the creep upward in driver aids, auto-damped suspension, etc. Also, they're still running the weaker wet sump engines in the non-gt3/turbo cars. Interior quality has sure increased in the 997, though. For the same $$ I'd go w/a 996 GT3, but they unfortunately lack any back seat. OK, quick comparison 996 to e36 m3. Note that I installed what's called the Euro M030 suspension on my 996 which really transformed the handling. - 911 has a very different handling feel from anything else on the road. The light-front-end feel takes a while to get used to. With this you get a very low polar-moment for the front end which means the car will change directions very quickly and you've got a big heavy tail to contend with though the rear susp and huge tires do a good job of handling this. A very different feel from the M3, not necessarily better or worse, though I personally prefer the feel of a balanced front engine rear drive car. - 911 has way more mechanical grip, it seems. The limits were so high that I very very rarely exceeded them on the street. There were a few memorable mountain drives, but the general sense was that the car wasn't really trying hard on the road. Oh, random comment but the lack of a LSD in the 911 really sucked. - Hard to find a car w/better steering feel than the 911. The bushings on my M3 are pretty worn, so I don't think it's a fair comparison at this point. I remember the M3 having great feel when new, so I'm hoping a refresh will help here. - Power: 911 is obviously faster, though the M3 doesn't feel slow in comparison. Again like the above there's so much power in the 911 that the opportunity to stretch its legs were very few and far between. - Power delivery is a different story. The 996 3.6 has a very pronounced cam/intake change late in the rev band (IIRC about 3.5-4k). This leads to an uneven feel where power ramps more quickly between 4k and redline which feels like it's very close, making it easy to hit the rev limiter if you're not anticipating this late rev kick. The e36s power delivery is more linear. - M3 feels like the engine is the heart of the car. Lots of good noise and vibration as part of the experience. Again the 911 is an odd experience because the fury is happening in the tail end. Great noises in both cars, but I like the feel of the M3 a bit better, and I think the noises it makes are sweeter. - Gearbox: the 85k mile gearbox in my new M3 shifts so much better than the 911, even w/the Porsche short-shift kit installed. - Room: e36 has a decent back seat which will scale better w/kids. (911, not so much) The e36 m3 is a great blend of power, handling, feel and practicality. The power isn't overwhelming, but the sound/feel is awesome. The handling of the M3 is much more balanced and accessible than the 911. The limits are a bit lower which I actually like -- it's more fun. After a blast in the M3, you feel like the car was a partner. W/the 911, you're amazed that something w/such a whacked weight distribution just did what it did -- not sure you'd live through it if you tried it again :) Both great cars, IMO. After owning the 911, I don't think Porsche can justify the $$ premium over cars like the M3 given the 996/997's shift towards mass production (like the rest of the automotive world). If BMW built a brand new e36 M3, I'd buy one. Unfortunately there's nothing like it being offered for sale today IMO. If I were to buy another 911, it would probably be a nice narrow body 993, or a 996 GT3. Bob, you mentioned picking up a 350z and keeping the M3. For me the lack of a back seat killed the 350z for me, though I like the car. I remember a comparo between the 350z, a 996, and ? (e46 m3?) and the 350z was quicker around the track than the 996. Formidable performance cars. I was personally leaning more towards an STI in that price range but I had a hard time w/the wings. You should drive one; quite a machine. Scott. -----Original Message----- From: Mdriver13@aol.com [mailto:Mdriver13@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:02 AM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:55:44 EST From: Mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member Welocome back, Scott. If I were to ever sell my M3 I was thinking it would take a 911 Porsche to do so? But, you gave that up? For a back seat? You still have the same amount of time as yesterday (can't sell the kid...believe me it only gets more time consuming...but in a good way). How about your honest opinion of the two machines, granted the cost factor is way different. I sat in a new Carrera last week, wow, what a high quality feel...but the sticker said $95K...started me thinking...buy a 350Z as a daily driving, keep the 97M3 for the track, and pocket the change! Am I way off base here? cheers, Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA 2005 Philly Region BSP Champion ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#9. Re: [E36M3] How long will you keep your E36 M3? - from Roy Kao
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:26:37 -0500 From: Roy Kao <royckao@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How long will you keep your E36 M3? I'm lucky enough to be able to keep the E36 as a track car now (all I need to find is good heated off-site storage for it and the trailer!) and have an '04 Audi A8L for daily driving duties. But I may be back in the BMW daily driver fold again...have a small deposit for production slot for an E60 M5, though the Audi lease doesn't end until April '07! But not sure I can live with (purely my opinion) the challenging looks of the E60 so may stick with another Audi as an alternative: the just announced S8. -- Roy - '99 M3 Estoril Blue > -------------------- 11 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:57:20 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] How long will you keep your E36 M3? > > I kept mine for 2.5 years as well. Sold it for something bigger and more useable for hauling 4 adults for my business use - E39 M5. Then got a hair up my butt for a sports car so had a Z06 for a year. Now I'm back in a more suitable replacement for the E39 M5 - a CTS-V. Which I have a 3-year lease on, so in theory it will be around at least that long.... > > Scott >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member - from Scott M
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Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:46:54 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member You can de-wing the STI. But it only helps a little bit..... Scott on 11/19/05 12:21 PM, Scott at stiles_s@hotmail.com wrote: > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 12:19:52 -0800 > From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] intro, new old member > > Sure, a quick? Comparison of the 911 and m3 > > The rough progression for me was 911 ('03 996) -> Kid 18mos later -> Honda > Pilot added to the mix because our S4 Avant turned out to be a microcar when > it came to carrying infant seats and all the other crap -> not driving the > 996 at all and watching money evaporate (depreciation) in the garage. I > figured I wouldn't drive it much at all for the next year, and that it would > depreciate at the rate of about another 8-10g this year (especially w/the > cayman coming into the product mix) > > The lack of usage, coupled w/quite a bit of frustration w/the car including > a very notchy gearbox (full $12k replacement thankfully under warranty), > constant shimmy problems, and oil pressure (wet sump, would lose oil > pressure on cloverleafs...) and general robustness issues led me to get rid > of it. I drove the Pilot exclusively for ~6mos while I figured out what to > buy (what a rolling castration that is for a car guy), and driving an e36 m3 > again made it all clear. FWIW, the 996 depreciated more in 2 years than the > M3 cost to purchase -- quite a bit more :) > > As for the e46 m3 or the 997, for some reason the e46 m3 has never done it > for me. I think it's the weight gain. The 997 is an amazing machine, but > it's also a very technically sophisticated car and I'm not a fan of the > creep upward in driver aids, auto-damped suspension, etc. Also, they're > still running the weaker wet sump engines in the non-gt3/turbo cars. > Interior quality has sure increased in the 997, though. For the same $$ I'd > go w/a 996 GT3, but they unfortunately lack any back seat. > > OK, quick comparison 996 to e36 m3. Note that I installed what's called the > Euro M030 suspension on my 996 which really transformed the handling. > - 911 has a very different handling feel from anything else on the road. The > light-front-end feel takes a while to get used to. With this you get a very > low polar-moment for the front end which means the car will change > directions very quickly and you've got a big heavy tail to contend with > though the rear susp and huge tires do a good job of handling this. A very > different feel from the M3, not necessarily better or worse, though I > personally prefer the feel of a balanced front engine rear drive car. > - 911 has way more mechanical grip, it seems. The limits were so high that I > very very rarely exceeded them on the street. There were a few memorable > mountain drives, but the general sense was that the car wasn't really trying > hard on the road. Oh, random comment but the lack of a LSD in the 911 really > sucked. > - Hard to find a car w/better steering feel than the 911. The bushings on my > M3 are pretty worn, so I don't think it's a fair comparison at this point. I > remember the M3 having great feel when new, so I'm hoping a refresh will > help here. > - Power: 911 is obviously faster, though the M3 doesn't feel slow in > comparison. Again like the above there's so much power in the 911 that the > opportunity to stretch its legs were very few and far between. > - Power delivery is a different story. The 996 3.6 has a very pronounced > cam/intake change late in the rev band (IIRC about 3.5-4k). This leads to an > uneven feel where power ramps more quickly between 4k and redline which > feels like it's very close, making it easy to hit the rev limiter if you're > not anticipating this late rev kick. The e36s power delivery is more linear. > - M3 feels like the engine is the heart of the car. Lots of good noise and > vibration as part of the experience. Again the 911 is an odd experience > because the fury is happening in the tail end. Great noises in both cars, > but I like the feel of the M3 a bit better, and I think the noises it makes > are sweeter. > - Gearbox: the 85k mile gearbox in my new M3 shifts so much better than the > 911, even w/the Porsche short-shift kit installed. > - Room: e36 has a decent back seat which will scale better w/kids. (911, not > so much) > > The e36 m3 is a great blend of power, handling, feel and practicality. The > power isn't overwhelming, but the sound/feel is awesome. The handling of the > M3 is much more balanced and accessible than the 911. The limits are a bit > lower which I actually like -- it's more fun. After a blast in the M3, you > feel like the car was a partner. W/the 911, you're amazed that something > w/such a whacked weight distribution just did what it did -- not sure you'd > live through it if you tried it again :) > > Both great cars, IMO. After owning the 911, I don't think Porsche can > justify the $$ premium over cars like the M3 given the 996/997's shift > towards mass production (like the rest of the automotive world). If BMW > built a brand new e36 M3, I'd buy one. Unfortunately there's nothing like it > being offered for sale today IMO. If I were to buy another 911, it would > probably be a nice narrow body 993, or a 996 GT3. > > Bob, you mentioned picking up a 350z and keeping the M3. For me the lack of > a back seat killed the 350z for me, though I like the car. I remember a > comparo between the 350z, a 996, and ? (e46 m3?) and the 350z was quicker > around the track than the 996. Formidable performance cars. I was personally > leaning more towards an STI in that price range but I had a hard time w/the > wings. You should drive one; quite a machine. > > Scott. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mdriver13@aol.com [mailto:Mdriver13@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:02 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member > > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2005 11:55:44 EST > From: Mdriver13@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] intro, new old member > > Welocome back, Scott. > > If I were to ever sell my M3 I was thinking it would take a 911 Porsche to > do > so? But, you gave that up? For a back seat? You still have the same > amount > of time as yesterday (can't sell the kid...believe me it only gets more time > > consuming...but in a good way). > > How about your honest opinion of the two machines, granted the cost factor > is > way different. I sat in a new Carrera last week, wow, what a high quality > feel...but the sticker said $95K...started me thinking...buy a 350Z as a > daily > driving, keep the 97M3 for the track, and pocket the change! Am I way off > base > here? > > cheers, > > Bob Gill > 97 ///M3 coupe > Philly Region SCCA > 2005 Philly Region BSP Champion > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >