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#1. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:03:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? Hi, Previously I used Amsoil Anti-Freeze. I like the product (I'm a dealer.) This last time since I didn't have any Amsoil and wasn't able to make the trip to pick any up. I used BMW stuff. The Amsoil Anti-freeze I use costs as much as the BMW stuff. Amsoil and BMW stuff is $20 a gallon. How often do you need to drain coolant? A lot less often than you change oil. How much to you pay for that Redline, Amsoil, etc... synthetic??? How many quarts does it take??? You change your oil after how many miles??? Oh. Kent > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 13:50:39 -0600 > From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick_Goss@GMACM.COM> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > > I think the big push on bmw and antifreeze is to use something without > phosphates in it, at least that is what the Bentley manual said stating > it can damage the cooling system.... > > I used normal stuff avail at pep boys etc and just checked the > ingredients on the back. Sure enough, some had phos and others did not. > Seemed the longer duration/pre-blended stuff didn't have phos and all > others did. I think I used peak pre-blended 5 year stuff at 7.99 a > gallon. So yeah I paid for water, but everything else had phos in it > and well I am sure the blend is right. > > BTW follow the bleed procedure. Bentley procedure worked flawlessly for > me! > > Patrick Goss > 97 M3/4 > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carl Stern [mailto:carl.stern@xilinx.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 2:40 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:31:53 -0700 > From: Carl Stern <carl.stern@xilinx.com> > Subject: Why not Prestone? > > > I think most people consider Prestone anti-freeze to be a quality > product. > I've used it in all my vehicles, except my M3. The new stuff claims > to work with all color antifreezes, costs about $9/gallon, and aluminum > motors and heads are quite common place these days. None of my other > vehicles have had cooling problems in 20 years, except for a couple of > Ford thermostats. > > Considering the rate at which BMWs consume water pumps, thermostats and > housings, > radiators and necks, I don't really think the orange BMW coolant mix is > doing > us any favors. > So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for twice the price? > > > Carl > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:07:20 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? On Tue, November 29, 2005 11:59 am, Marc Plante said: > Just wanted to clarify that I just need the 75-90 diff fluid and not the > "NS" formulation. From the Red Line web site, in part: 75W90 - It contains friction modifier which is recommended for limited-slip units. 75W90 NS - This GL-5-type geal oil doesn't contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. You should be able to choose correctly now :-) Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - LSD, 75W90 1993 325is #44 JP - LSD, 75W90
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:07:52 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? Yes, in my humble opinion, Redline could have done a better job of labeling their differential fluid - it is confusing. The NS stands for "Non limited-Slip". My English teachers always told me to avoid double negatives. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 --------------------------------------- In a message dated 11/29/05 2:00:00 PM Central Standard Time, marcva@gmail.com writes: Just wanted to clarify that I just need the 75-90 diff fluid and not the "NS" formulation.
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:11:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? On Tue, November 29, 2005 11:39 am, Carl Stern said: > So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for twice the price? An explaination can be found here: <http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Coolant_Flush/E36-Coolant-Flush.htm> Third paragraph from the bottom. Are other coolants on the market that meet the BMW requirement? Maybe, but with a change interval of 2-3 years, paying $6-$7 more for a gallon of coolant just isn't an issue. Why willingly introduce a possible problem into an already troublesome system? My 2 cents (today, that's what, 6 cents so far? :-)), Jim Bassett
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#5. RE: Why not Prestone? - from Don Eilenberger
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:46:00 -0500 From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> Subject: RE: Why not Prestone? At 03:09 PM 11/29/2005, Carl wrote: >Considering the rate at which BMWs consume water pumps, thermostats and >housings, radiators and necks, I don't really think the orange BMW coolant >mix is doing us any favors. Orange? That's not BMW's stuff - that's "Dexcool" - which has a mixed reputation (I have been running it in my real BMW - which has an aluminum block engine/head/radiator/everythingprettymuch except the water pump impeller) for 3 years without a problem. >So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for twice the price? Haven't priced BMW stuff lately - but it seems one of those things where the price varies widely depending on where you're getting it from. When I was hearing prices like $17.00 in California, it was $11.00/gallon in NJ.. and I think the $17/cal stuff was pre-diluted so you're paying $34/gallon in real antifreeze.. >Carl I think there are some concerns over the pH of the antifreeze and ones that are too either base or acidic are suspected of causing the plastic breakdown we all suffer with. This of course may be a big rumor with no fact since we all DO suffer these failures even when the cooling systems are well maintained with official BMW stuff. So - definitive answer - dunno. _______D_o_n__________S_p_r_i_n_g__L_a_k_e__H_t_s____________©1946________ Don Eilenberger, Spring Lk Hts, NJ - http://www.njsbmwr.org/ '98 M3c/5, '03 525iT, '87 K75S
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:30:55 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? >From the Red Line web site, in part: >75W90 - It contains friction modifier which is recommended for >limited-slip units. >75W90 NS - This GL-5-type geal oil doesn't contain the friction modifiers >for limited-slip hypoid differentials. >You should be able to choose correctly now :-) Some racers and autoxers actually use the NS stuff in their LSDs, supposedly it increases the lock-up, the drawback is noise. -Carlos.
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#7. Why not Prestone? - from Alan Leung
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:39:59 -0600 From: "Alan Leung" <alanleung100@hotmail.com> Subject: Why not Prestone? Carl, Orange BMW coolant mix? All the BMW coolant I've seen is blue. Do they have a new formula for newer cars? Also I believe Zionsville only honor the lifetime warranty on their aluminum radiator if BMW coolant is changed every 2 years. May or may not mean anything. Alan >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:31:53 -0700 >From: Carl Stern <carl.stern@xilinx.com> >Subject: Why not Prestone? > > >I think most people consider Prestone anti-freeze to be a quality product. >I've used it in all my vehicles, except my M3. The new stuff claims >to work with all color antifreezes, costs about $9/gallon, and aluminum >motors and heads are quite common place these days. None of my other >vehicles have had cooling problems in 20 years, except for a couple of >Ford thermostats. > >Considering the rate at which BMWs consume water pumps, thermostats and >housings, >radiators and necks, I don't really think the orange BMW coolant mix is >doing >us any favors. >So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for twice the price? > > >Carl
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Alexander Fadeev
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:46:18 -0500 From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? Given that my E36 radiators fell apart within 40-50K miles of running on BWM coolant, I find the religious adherence to that overpriced blue stuff rather curious. Based on my (admittedly statistically insignificant) sample size, both E36s have had better luck keeping OEM radiators in one piece with anything OTHER than BWM coolant. FWIW, I've been using DexCool due to reputation and availability. Pretty much the same reasons I'm using Mobil 1 and RedLine instead of bending over for re-labeled BMW oils (last time I checked BWM was still not a chemical company). Price of non-BMW labeled fluids is hardly a motivator, though it does not hurt. Availability and feedback from fellow Club members is. YMMV, -- alex f > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:20 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:11:42 -0800 (PST) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > > On Tue, November 29, 2005 11:39 am, Carl Stern said: > > So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for > twice the price? > > An explaination can be found here: > <http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Coolant_Flush/E36-Coolant-Fl ush.htm> > Third paragraph from the bottom. > > Are other coolants on the market that meet the BMW > requirement? Maybe, but with a change interval of 2-3 years, > paying $6-$7 more for a gallon of coolant just isn't an > issue. Why willingly introduce a possible problem into an > already troublesome system? > > My 2 cents (today, that's what, 6 cents so far? :-)), Jim Bassett
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:36:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? What about that other drawback? Early clucth pack failure due to increased lockup and increased wear??? Kent > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:30:55 -0500 > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > >>From the Red Line web site, in part: >>75W90 - It contains friction modifier which is recommended for >>limited-slip units. > >>75W90 NS - This GL-5-type geal oil doesn't contain the friction modifiers >>for limited-slip hypoid differentials. > >>You should be able to choose correctly now :-) > > Some racers and autoxers actually use the NS stuff in their LSDs, > supposedly it > increases the lock-up, the drawback is noise. > > -Carlos. > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:42:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? Hi, I have religious adherence to Amsoil then to Redline if Amsoil doesn't make it. I used BMW Blue the last time because I figured it was a safe bet and $10 vs $20 isn't an issue. That being said, I have owned three BMWs. Two have been M3s and E30 and now an E36. In all cases I have gotten at least 90K miles out of the radiators before failing. In my first BMW I ran whatever. I went through 2 radiators in 265K miles. I think it may matter if you don't do any maintenance. If you do it every year or two; do what makes you happy an gives you the warm and fuzzies. Kent > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:46:18 -0500 > From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > > Given that my E36 radiators fell apart within 40-50K miles of running on > BWM > coolant, I find the religious adherence to that overpriced blue stuff > rather > curious. > Based on my (admittedly statistically insignificant) sample size, both > E36s > have had better luck keeping OEM radiators in one piece with anything > OTHER > than BWM coolant. > > FWIW, I've been using DexCool due to reputation and availability. Pretty > much > the same reasons I'm using Mobil 1 and RedLine instead of bending over for > re-labeled BMW oils (last time I checked BWM was still not a chemical > company). > Price of non-BMW labeled fluids is hardly a motivator, though it does not > hurt. Availability and feedback from fellow Club members is. > > YMMV, > > -- > alex f > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 3:20 PM >> To: E36M3 >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? >> >> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:11:42 -0800 (PST) >> From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? >> >> On Tue, November 29, 2005 11:39 am, Carl Stern said: >> > So what's the deal? Why should I continue using it for >> twice the price? >> >> An explaination can be found here: >> > <http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Coolant_Flush/E36-Coolant-Fl > ush.htm> >> Third paragraph from the bottom. >> >> Are other coolants on the market that meet the BMW >> requirement? Maybe, but with a change interval of 2-3 years, >> paying $6-$7 more for a gallon of coolant just isn't an >> issue. Why willingly introduce a possible problem into an >> already troublesome system? >> >> My 2 cents (today, that's what, 6 cents so far? :-)), Jim Bassett > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >