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#1. RE: [E36M3] RE: Why not Prestone? - from Matthew Teel
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:56:20 -0900 From: "Matthew Teel" <mteel@beluga.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Why not Prestone? > ... This of > course may be a big rumor with no fact since we all DO suffer > these failures even when the cooling systems are well > maintained with official BMW stuff. Oddly... I've only replaced the coolant in my car once in seven years and 117K miles with original BMW product and my coolant is clean and my radiator, hoses, tank etc. look pretty much like new. Maybe the heat of summer has more to do with failures than anything else? My car has never seen ambient temps over 89 degrees except perhaps for the first 26 miles of it's life in L.A. Matthew (AK) 98 M3/4
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Matthew Teel
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:05:08 -0900 From: "Matthew Teel" <mteel@beluga.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > Orange BMW coolant mix? All the BMW coolant I've seen is > blue. Do they have a new formula for newer cars? FYI - My Land Rover coolant is bright orange, comes in a nifty Land Rover labeled plastic container and costs $40/gallon. IMO, Now that's expensive! I still use it, because I've heard to not use it is to doom your engine to certain death. It contains something called "Organic Acid Technology" and "Bittering Agents", what ever the heck that is. Matthew (AK) 98 M3/4
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:54:25 -0500 From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? I ran a mix of it in my JS car for 3 seasons with no issues (I think I ran half/half). I'm sure early clutch pack failure is likely depending on how much the mixture and how much it's used. I've never seen anyone actually measure the lifespan though to determing what "early" means. And I've never heard of anyone achieving failure by doing it. Jack Money Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotorsports.com On 11/29/05, Kent L. Shephard <kents@kls-consulting.com> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 15:36:03 -0800 (PST) > From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > What about that other drawback? > Early clucth pack failure due to increased lockup and increased wear??? > > Kent > > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:30:55 -0500 > > From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > > > > >>From the Red Line web site, in part: > >>75W90 - It contains friction modifier which is recommended for > >>limited-slip units. > > > >>75W90 NS - This GL-5-type geal oil doesn't contain the friction > modifiers > >>for limited-slip hypoid differentials. > > > >>You should be able to choose correctly now :-) > > > > Some racers and autoxers actually use the NS stuff in their LSDs, > > supposedly it > > increases the lock-up, the drawback is noise. > > > > -Carlos. > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Raza Uddin
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:01:51 -0800 From: Raza Uddin <raza.uddin@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? On 11/29/05, Matthew Teel <mteel@beluga.com> wrote: > > My Land Rover coolant is bright orange...It contains something called > "Organic Acid Technology" and "Bittering Agents", what ever the heck that > is. Maybe that's so it looks stylish for the eventual spill, in pure British car tradition. ;) I've never had a radiator failure (yet) in either my E36s, but I am pretty sure it is not far down the line. My stock, original radiator on my M3/4 has gone 116K and the neck and hoses look great even after a season or so of autocrossing and mulitple track days. I'm planning on upgrading to a Zionsville unit at some point (in preparation of eventual FI). What about Redline Water Wetter and DI water? From a pure heat transfer argument, DI water is the best fluid. And since I don't live where it will freeze (I love SF, CA), should I still consider anti-freeze? Drive Safely, Raza
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Jason Knight
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 19:22:18 -0800 (PST) From: Jason Knight <knight2244@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? Whereas we've had the race car sitting out overnight at WSIR when it was below freezing and saw no issue with just water and Redline Water Wetter in the cooling systme, I think that the only time that Water Wetter only in the cooling system should be for a race car, where dumping coolant on the track could cause real problems for cars around you. For a street car, why not run coolant? There's the off chance that the next ice age could draw nigh, and the last thing us SoCal folks would want in that situation would be to have a frozen engine block! For all those considering saving the cost of a couple of tanks of gas on coolant, search the archives regarding coolant. There's a couple of postings out there of a nice article that I usually get half way through before it renews my faith in going to the manufacturer for coolant. That's ust my (inflation adjusted) two cents. Jason > What about Redline Water Wetter and DI water? From > a pure heat transfer > argument, DI water is the best fluid. And since I > don't live where it will > freeze (I love SF, CA), should I still consider > anti-freeze? > > Drive Safely, > Raza
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 22:51:07 -0800 From: Gus Iverson <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? On 11/29/05, Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:54:25 -0500 > From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > I ran a mix of it in my JS car for 3 seasons with no issues (I think I ran > half/half). I'm sure early clutch pack failure is likely depending on how > much the mixture and how much it's used. I've never seen anyone actually > measure the lifespan though to determing what "early" means. And I've never > heard of anyone achieving failure by doing it. > > Jack Money > Elephant Motorsports > http://www.elephantmotorsports.com This statement is fascinating to me, coming from an IRS Mustang (Cobra) background. Clutch pack replacement in *street* going Mustangs was a necessity, let alone cars used in performance applications. Personally, I replaced the clutch packs in my 5-10 OT / year Cobra yearly and the clutches were typically used up. Now, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Ford spec'ed unit was not up to the job and required additional maintenance, but I was just starting to look into maintenance schedules for the limited slip in my new to me 98 M3/4 with 66k miles and determine if I should be considering repacking the clutches with my other winter maintenance. My question becomes, what is a typical maintenance schedule for the BMW limited slip? I'm already planning to replace the fluid yearly at the same time as the transmission fluid but when do I need to concern myself with the clutches? When they obviously go? Gus
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#7. Red Line Oil - IO Port Racing Sale - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:37:50 -0800 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: Red Line Oil - IO Port Racing Sale Jim!! Dec 7th 2005 12 hours only Dear Valued Customer: I am writing you today to inform you of our upcoming 12-hour, 1-day sale. This sale is for Wednesday, December 7th, 2005, from 8 AM to 8 PM Pacific Time. Almost everything in our giant on-line catalog will be on sale! 20% off: Red Line Oil - Books - Racer's Tape 10% off I/O Port Manufactured Items: Camera Mounts - Seat Brackets and Braces - Mirrors - Steering Wheel Adaptors 5% off: Autopower - Kirkey - Longacre - Bell - Pyrotect - All Other Items We will close our doors to receive orders by phone, fax and email only. Do not call or place an order before 8 AM Pacific Time (11 AM to 11 PM EST). ONLY orders received by phone, fax or email during sale hours will receive sale prices. Internet orders will receive an extra 5% off the sale price. This 5% is applied to the subtotal before tax (if applicable) and shipping is added. Internet orders will not show the sale price or the added discount. These discounts will be applied by our staff before charging your credit card. During the sale we will accept credit card payment only. No shipping will take place on Wednesday and because of sales volume, your order may not ship right away. If you are in a hurry for your order, please send a separate email to support@IOPortRacing.com with your request and we will try to accommodate your wishes. We will do everything possible to at least inform you of our abilities. Order over $100.00 worth of product and receive free UPS ground shipping.* Discounts are taken off our most current discount price list. Prices on the Internet are also current. 20% Red Line discount supersedes our normal 15% discount on case quantities. *Red Line Oil, roll bars and cages, seats, utility jugs and some other items are oversize and do not qualify for free shipping. Please see our Web site policy page for full details. No discounts on AMB or radios. Remember: Receive an extra 5% off all orders placed on the Internet using our Web site order form. Please go to: www.IOPortRacing.com I/O Port will make all future communication by email only. We will no longer send postcards. You are already on our email list. If you would like to opt out, please reply to this email with the word "Remove" in the subject and we will promptly take you off the email list. Kim Burgess - No Affiliation or interest
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > What about that other drawback? > Early clucth pack failure due to increased lockup and increased wear??? Generally, many racers aren't nearly concerned about longevity when offset by a competitive advantage. Regards, Rich
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:16:33 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > Given that my E36 radiators fell apart within 40-50K miles of running on BWM > coolant, I find the religious adherence to that overpriced blue stuff rather > curious. That is alright, a guy on the E30 list claims all BMW radiators last "FOREVER"... :-) You must be doing something wrong... > Based on my (admittedly statistically insignificant) sample size, both E36s > have had better luck keeping OEM radiators in one piece with anything OTHER > than BWM coolant. Hmm, I would be willing to bet this has more to do with the radiator than the coolant. I don't believe the failure of the plastic (typically the necks on the radiator) are due to the coolant, I believe it is due to inferior material. I also believe the coolant choice is much more relevant for the remainder of the system (all of the varying metal components). For that reason, I use BMW coolant. It also didn't hurt that I bought a case of it on "close-out" when it was well under $8/gallon. The price has increased substantially to around $20/gallon retail. > FWIW, I've been using DexCool due to reputation and availability. What reputation is that? There are many voices that declare DexCool as bad. > Pretty much > the same reasons I'm using Mobil 1 and RedLine instead of bending over for > re-labeled BMW oils (last time I checked BWM was still not a chemical > company). I agree when it comes to oil and don't buy their oil, there are better alternatives. Their basic synthetic oil (5W30) used to be quite cheap, it has increased in price significantly. Regards, Rich
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#10. Re: Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:17:11 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: Red line...NS formulation not needed? > Yes, in my humble opinion, Redline could have done a better job of labeling > their differential fluid - it is confusing. Agreed. > The NS stands for "Non > limited-Slip". My English teachers always told me to avoid double negatives. Good advice. Now how is "non limited-slip" a double negative? In my opinion, to ease confusion, the one for the limited slip diffs should have been labeled "LS" and the other shouldn't have received any denotation. Regards, Rich