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#1. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:21:49 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? > From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> > That being said, I have owned three BMWs. Two have been M3s and E30 and > now an E36. In all cases I have gotten at least 90K miles out of the > radiators before failing. In my first BMW I ran whatever. I went through 2 > radiators in 265K miles. Comparing results between E30 radiators and E36 radiators isn't at all fair and in no way allows you to draw any conclusions about coolant choices. E30 radiators are notoriously long-lived while E36 radiators suck in comparison (the same of which can be said about many more modern BMW models). Getting 250k out of an E30 radiator isn't at all unusual (unheard of in an E36) while 60k-90k for an E36 radiator seems like the norm (never heard of an E30 radiator failing that early). Regards, Rich
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#2. Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! - from Gary
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:53:57 -0600 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! SO am I the only one who can't stand the crappy plastic clutch pedal? Thing moves around like Jell-O! I think I am going to make one out of something else.. Gary
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Alexander Fadeev
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:09:17 -0500 From: "Alexander Fadeev" <afadeev@smu.edu> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? Rich Dorffer [mailto:e36m3digest@ameritech.net] wrote: > > > Given that my E36 radiators fell apart within 40-50K miles > > of running on BWM coolant, I find the religious adherence > > to that overpriced blue stuff rather curious. > > That is alright, a guy on the E30 list claims all BMW > radiators last "FOREVER"... > > :-) He might be right! After my first E36 radiator croaked, I finally decided to replace the one on my ex-daily driver E30. I had ~200K miles on it at that time on the original (flushed and BMW coolant filled) radiator. At least the last 50+K of those E30 miles rolled on in TX, the scene of the premature E36 radiator demise. > > Based on my (admittedly statistically insignificant) sample > > size, both E36s have had better luck keeping OEM radiators > > in one piece with anything OTHER than BWM coolant. > > Hmm, I would be willing to bet this has more to do with the > radiator than the coolant. I don't believe the failure of > the plastic (typically the necks on the radiator) are due to > the coolant, I believe it is due to inferior material. I agree. However, one of the advertised 'benefits' of low-Ph blue OEM coolant is that it is plastic friendly. Go tell that to my two E36 radiators ;-) FWIW, I personally suspect E36 radiator failures have a lot more to do with the short upper radiator hose and wobbly engine mounts. YMMV, yada, yada, alex f
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:17:51 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! Are you sure it's the clutch pedal and not the bushings in the clutch pedal? I have a Ron Stygar modded clutch pedal and it sits there in the 12 o'clock position. Chester --- Gary <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> wrote: : Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! > > SO am I the only one who can't stand the crappy plastic clutch pedal? > > Thing moves around like Jell-O! I think I am going to make one out of > something else..
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:17:57 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Why not Prestone? --- Alexander Fadeev <afadeev@smu.edu> wrote: > Rich Dorffer [mailto:e36m3digest@ameritech.net] wrote: > > > > > Given that my E36 radiators fell apart within 40-50K miles > > > of running on BWM coolant, I find the religious adherence > > > to that overpriced blue stuff rather curious. > > > > That is alright, a guy on the E30 list claims all BMW > > radiators last "FOREVER"... > > > > :-) > > He might be right! Well, nothing on a car last forever, and I would certainly not say that "ALL BMW RADIATORS LAST FOREVER" (he wasn't speaking just of E30 radiators which are quite robust), I think E36 radiators prove otherwise by themselves. Maybe they last forever sitting on a shelf in their new package... > > Hmm, I would be willing to bet this has more to do with the > > radiator than the coolant. I don't believe the failure of > > the plastic (typically the necks on the radiator) are due to > > the coolant, I believe it is due to inferior material. > > I agree. > However, one of the advertised 'benefits' of low-Ph blue OEM coolant is that > it is plastic friendly. Go tell that to my two E36 radiators ;-) > > FWIW, I personally suspect E36 radiator failures have a lot more to do with > the short upper radiator hose and wobbly engine mounts. Agreed, I believe all those factors can contribute (although the E36 M3 engine mounts are fairly robust, the engine does rock). I don't think the BMW coolant causes the demise of the radiator. The wrong coolant can contribute to the demise of certain parts IMO. Later, Rich
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:23:39 -0600 From: Jamie Howton <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Crappy plastic clutch pedal!! On 11/30/05, Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> wrote: > Are you sure it's the clutch pedal and not the bushings in the clutch pedal? I > have a Ron Stygar modded clutch pedal and it sits there in the 12 o'clock > position. I agree with Chester here, I replaced the bushings on mine with th UUC kit a couple of years ago and it there's no flex in it anymore. -- Jamie Howton 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Re: Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:31:08 -0500 From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Red line...NS formulation not needed? I was thinking the same as you Rich. ; ) Jack On 11/30/05, Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> wrote: > > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:17:11 -0800 (PST) > From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> > Subject: Re: Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > > Yes, in my humble opinion, Redline could have done a better job of > labeling > > their differential fluid - it is confusing. > > Agreed. > > > The NS stands for "Non > > limited-Slip". My English teachers always told me to avoid double > negatives. > > Good advice. Now how is "non limited-slip" a double negative? > > In my opinion, to ease confusion, the one for the limited slip diffs > should have been labeled "LS" > and the other shouldn't have received any denotation. > > Regards, > > Rich > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:32:25 -0800 (PST) From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > From: Gus Iverson <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > This statement is fascinating to me, coming from an IRS Mustang > (Cobra) background. Clutch pack replacement in *street* going Mustangs > was a necessity, let alone cars used in performance applications. > Personally, I replaced the clutch packs in my 5-10 OT / year Cobra > yearly and the clutches were typically used up. > > Now, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Ford spec'ed unit was not up > to the job and required additional maintenance, but I was just > starting to look into maintenance schedules for the limited slip in my > new to me 98 M3/4 with 66k miles and determine if I should be > considering repacking the clutches with my other winter maintenance. You plan to remove the differential and completely tear it a part to replace the clutches or the shims? Do you know where to source those parts? > My question becomes, what is a typical maintenance schedule for the > BMW limited slip? Replace the fluid every couple of years or 30,000 miles. BMW differentials are quite robust and typically overbuilt. The clutches do wear out over time depending on use and maintenance but will easily last 100k - 300k miles in street cars (and even then, they simply reduce the amount of limited slip gradually). > I'm already planning to replace the fluid yearly at > the same time as the transmission fluid but when do I need to concern > myself with the clutches? When they obviously go? Pretty much, there is nothing to do with the clutches until that point when you pack up your diff and send it off to an expert such as Brett Anderson at Koala Motorsport (www.koalamotorsport.com). Regards, Rich
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:33:20 -0500 From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? Indeed, and I'm sorry for not qualifying that. From a racer standpoint, I'm not concerned about a diff that might only last 3 seasons instead of 5, particularly if it's a stock diff that I have no money into. If I get it rebuilt I'll make it to my specs anyway so the fluid will be a non issue. For a street car or nondedicated DE car then I would say not to worry about it, one way or the other. Perhaps Brett Anderson might offer an opinion on the use of the NS fluid in an LS diff. Jack Money Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotorsports.com On 11/30/05, Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> wrote: > > Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Rich Dorffer <e36m3digest@ameritech.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > > What about that other drawback? > > Early clucth pack failure due to increased lockup and increased wear??? > > Generally, many racers aren't nearly concerned about longevity when offset > by a competitive > advantage. > > Regards, > > Rich > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:45:30 -0500 From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? On 11/30/05, Gus Iverson <gus.iverson@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 11/29/05, Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> > wrote: > > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:54:25 -0500 > > From: Jack - Elephant Motorsports <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Red line...NS formulation not needed? > > > > I ran a mix of it in my JS car for 3 seasons with no issues (I think I > ran > > half/half). I'm sure early clutch pack failure is likely depending on > how > > much the mixture and how much it's used. I've never seen anyone > actually > > measure the lifespan though to determing what "early" means. And I've > never > > heard of anyone achieving failure by doing it. > > > > Jack Money > > Elephant Motorsports > > http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > This statement is fascinating to me, coming from an IRS Mustang > (Cobra) background. Clutch pack replacement in *street* going Mustangs > was a necessity, let alone cars used in performance applications. > Personally, I replaced the clutch packs in my 5-10 OT / year Cobra > yearly and the clutches were typically used up. Not surprising. I worked on the Cobra driveline for a little more than a year. It's done like the rest of the car is done. Which gen Cobra? Now, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Ford spec'ed unit was not up > to the job and required additional maintenance, but I was just > starting to look into maintenance schedules for the limited slip in my > new to me 98 M3/4 with 66k miles and determine if I should be > considering repacking the clutches with my other winter maintenance. > > My question becomes, what is a typical maintenance schedule for the > BMW limited slip? I'm already planning to replace the fluid yearly at > the same time as the transmission fluid but when do I need to concern > myself with the clutches? When they obviously go? See Rich D's statements, no point in repeating. Jack Money Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotorsports.com