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#1. RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:52:39 -0600 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Please allow me clarify, the question is what size does AA normally use in their original kit. I'm not trying to improve their kit but rather fill in the missing pieces on a used AA kit I already have and preparing to install in its stock form. I'm only missing the injectors, and calling AA direct has yielded inflated price quotes for a simple bosch injector which they are unwilling to share specs on. I understand its business, but I willing to research, learn and mostly save a little if I can get a definitive answer! I think it's these injectors but not sure and not willing to volunteer my engine as a test mule. Bosch part # 0280150945 available new below, unfortunately AA want$ double the price unfortunately. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8044830654 &rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 BTW the only reason I think it's these is the previous owner of the kit said they were red top injectors and various folks on bimmerforums think it's merely the same app as a ford mustang using 30 lbs. So no I don't have any 'real' evidence it is these. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: marco [mailto:m3driver@iname.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:32 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:27:00 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Exactly! I've somewhat forgotten what Patrick's original question was. Is it what size does AA use or what size should they use? For a 355hp rated motor I think 30lbs is too low at 80% duty cycle - not only can too much fuel pressure cause an injector to lock, so can running it at too high of a duty cycle. To be on the safe side I'd expect 38-40lb injectors with a stock fpr. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Tom Melton [mailto:Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:12 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:09:01 -0500 From: "Tom Melton" <Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Patrick (and all), There is no connection to the FPR. They supply larger injectors and program the injector "on time" in the maps within the DME to support the injectors. The old trick is to have a rising rate FPR, or an FMU (fuel management unit) that is vacuum/boost controlled and utilize stock injectors. Increasing the Fuel Pressure is a cheap trick to make an injector appear larger. The big downside is that if you increase the fuel pressure too much you can cause the injector to no longer flow fuel as it locks up. Then you get parts breakage due to too lean a mixture. That is what AA is commenting on, they did it correctly in the DME tables, thus touting their LACK of NEED for a FMU/AFPR. -Tom >>> "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> 3/14/2006 10:52:06 am >>> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 09:53:45 -0600 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Thanks Marco, please do check. I'd wager on the FPR being electronically controlled, or else AA wouldn't comment as such. Big misrep on their part if they are wrong, and they have a lot of these out there. I have lost bets before thou. Guess we have to ask ourselves in absence of manual adjustment, how else would they flow the increased fuel required at boost? It probably has to be electronic and controllable by reflashing the ECU otherwise people would have a lot broken parts. Is there another option to increase fuel/increase pressure other than what is commonly referred to as a FPR? Hmmm!!!! Patrick -----Original Message----- From: marco [mailto:m3driver@iname.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 10:32 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:24:30 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger I'm no expert but I have no idea how they are adjusting a stock M3 fuel pressure regulator via the ECU. I'm pretty sure it's a mechanical device. I just R&R'd my entire car wiring harness and I don't remember hooking up anything to the fuel pressure regulator. If I remember I'll take a closer look tonight when I get home. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA [mailto:Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:22 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:17:33 -0600 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Claims below via their website are: STOCK 198.9 WHP | 202.9 Ft/lbs AA Supercharger 282.6 WHP | 262.4 Ft/Lbs Rear Wheel GAINS 83.6 WHP | 59.6 Ft/Lbs BMW E36 M3 Supercharger Kit - 355 Engine Horsepower This M3 Supercharger system for your 1995 - 1999 M3 features the new Rotrex Supercharger unit and includes both a front mounted intercooler and an oil cooler. The system delivers instantaneous power and low end torque unfamiliar to other types of supercharger systems. This is achieved while running super unleaded fuel with the factory exhaust catalyst and stock muffler. There is no need for adding a Mechanical Fuel Pressure Regulator, or any other ancillary add-ons to compensate for ignition or fuel. It is all done in the software, just like how the factory would. BMW M3 Supercharger Kit Components: Rotrex C30-94 Trim Supercharger Pressure (Boost) level of 8psi 6 high flow Injectors High temperature hoses with clamps Hi Flow auxiliary electric fan K&N Air Filter Mandrel Bent tubing Special uni-belt with additional rollers Front Mounted air to air Intercooler Front Mounted air to air Oil Cooler Active Autowerke Race By-pass Valve All installation hardware included Active Autowerke Dyno tweaked Software *The kit comes complete along with an illustrated directional manual for installation. *2 Year Warranty with Free Tech Support http://www.activeautowerke.com/dyno/97_M3_vs_97_M3_supercharged.cfm Marco, I have seen redtops all over ebay (actually a popular ford smallblock choice), and they are all 30lbs. As for fuel pressure they are claiming to do it via the computer reflash. What do you think? Patrick Fuel injectorless -----Original Message----- From: marco [mailto:m3driver@iname.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 12:02 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:58:31 -0800 From: "marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger reds are "probably" 30lbs/hour. at least my injectors in my race car are red and they are 30lbs. How much hp does that AA put out? 30lbs sounds low to me unless they've bumped the fuel pressure significantly over stock. I sized mine to a 300hp motor at 80% duty cycle max. Marco ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 11:56:52 -0500 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Please people, a little editing on these posts, this is ridiculous. This also isn't rocket science, they control the injectors and the amount of time they are open via the fuel maps. Using a FPR alone in a motor like this is a kludge, even AA can get this much right (i.e., increasing the injector size and modifying the fuel maps to control fuel, who knows if they did it correctly). Therefore, there is no need to change the FPR or try to control it. Regards, Rich
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#3. Best prices from a dealer - from David Flanary
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:04:40 -0800 From: "David Flanary" <dflanary@markhamvineyards.com> Subject: Best prices from a dealer I just learned that Nick Alexander BMW (in LA) is no longer offering the BMWCCA discount. They had been offering parts at cost + 20% (yes cost plus, not retail less XX%). Also, shipping was free. I have bought all my parts from them since getting my car back in 1999. As my '99 is approaching 100K, I am looking at a big parts order (new control arms, bushings, brakes, some trim parts, etc) and would prefer to order from a dealer. Who's out there that I should buy from? I am in NorCal. Dave
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer - from Jay Hudson
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:21:45 -0800 From: "Jay Hudson" <jwhud@budget.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer Try Pacific BMW in Glendale, CA. They do mail order and discount too. Jay > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:04:40 -0800 > From: "David Flanary" <dflanary@markhamvineyards.com> > Subject: Best prices from a dealer > > I just learned that Nick Alexander BMW (in LA) is no longer offering the > BMWCCA discount. They had been offering parts at cost + 20% (yes cost > plus, > not retail less XX%). Also, shipping was free. I have bought all my parts > from them since getting my car back in 1999. > > > > As my '99 is approaching 100K, I am looking at a big parts order (new > control arms, bushings, brakes, some trim parts, etc) and would prefer to > order from a dealer. Who's out there that I should buy from? > > > > I am in NorCal. > > > > Dave
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer - from Rex Tener
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:26:21 -0800 From: Rex Tener <rex_tener@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer At 10:12 AM 3/14/2006, David Flanary wrote: >As my '99 is approaching 100K, I am looking at a big parts order (new >control arms, bushings, brakes, some trim parts, etc) and would prefer to >order from a dealer. Who's out there that I should buy from? > >I am in NorCal. I am in NorCal too. I have been buying from the Internet Parts arm of Crevier BMW in SoCal. Their service so far has been excellent and their prices seem to be the lowest around, usually 50% less than the local NorCal dealers. I don't mind paying the sales tax and shipping is quicker and cheaper than the dealers from other parts of the nation. Though, the ideal internet parts dealer for us NorCal BMW owners would be one in Oregon or Nevada, no tax and quick shipment. Rex Tener rex_tener@yahoo.com
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#6. WTB and F/S chip for late 95 - from tim ng
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:05:00 -0500 From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> Subject: WTB and F/S chip for late 95 WTB: looking for a name brand chip (Turner, AA, Conforti) for a late 95 M3 with 3.5" Euro HFM, CAI, EWS, 5 spd car. selling: Conforti chip for late 1995 M3 selling: Conforti chip for EARLY 1995 M3 with 3.5" Euro HFM, CAI, big injectors. willing to swap chips if someone has what i need. Tim Ng BMWCCA # 36497 95 BUZZNM3 92 325ic M-Technic 91 M3 street car 88 M3/2.5 DM race car 87 325is D.E. car ------------------ CAR FOR SALE 90 535ia ------------------ Pace shadow 26 ft enclosed trailer my web page: http://groups.msn.com/M3stuff/pictures
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#7.Bentley manual and possibly a chip - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:32:43 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: <FS> Bentley manual and possibly a chip Tim's message reminded me I have a 95 M3 Conforti chip for a 94 production date car. I don't need it as I sold the car 8 years ago. Anyway... For Sale E36 Bentley manual, $45 shipped within the U.S. Make an offer on the chip if you're interested in it. -Carlos 98 M3 Sharked x-95 M3 was Sharked twice (yurro HFMed the 2nd time)
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer - from Mike Frank
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:44:19 -0500 From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer Dave, I've recently received great service from Richmond BMW. Their prices were pretty good too I think, but I didn't shop around much. They were considerably better than my local dealer at 10% off "retail" for CCA members. I'm in Indianapolis so shipping is quick as well. I'm sure others can give you some additional recommendations. HTH, Mike Frank 97 M3 > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 10:04:40 -0800 > From: "David Flanary" <dflanary@markhamvineyards.com> > Subject: Best prices from a dealer > > I just learned that Nick Alexander BMW (in LA) is no longer offering the > BMWCCA discount. They had been offering parts at cost + 20% (yes cost > plus, > not retail less XX%). Also, shipping was free. I have bought all my parts > from them since getting my car back in 1999. > > > > As my '99 is approaching 100K, I am looking at a big parts order (new > control arms, bushings, brakes, some trim parts, etc) and would prefer to > order from a dealer. Who's out there that I should buy from?
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer - from Steve Tymoszuk
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:49:17 -0500 From: Steve Tymoszuk <steve.tymoszuk@tds.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Best prices from a dealer Try Richmond BMW. They ran an ad in Autoweek, "20% off list plus free shipping on orders over $100". The numerous times I had used them, they were really responsive and had pretty much everything I needed of in stock. Not affiliated with Richmond BMW....just a happy customer. -Steve David Flanary wrote: > I just learned that Nick Alexander BMW (in LA) is no longer offering the > BMWCCA discount. They had been offering parts at cost + 20% (yes cost plus, > not retail less XX%). Also, shipping was free. I have bought all my parts > from them since getting my car back in 1999. >
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#10. dealer prices - Richmond BMW - from rickd
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Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 16:19:55 -0500 From: "rickd" <rickd@swfla.rr.com> Subject: dealer prices - Richmond BMW Kudos to Richmond BMW. Good prices, really efficient service on several occasions. Haven't found a better mail order dealer in the east.