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#1. RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger - from Paul L Fisher
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:02:55 -0600 From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Markup at for most parts is at least 100% if not 200% if you buy them at parts stores or at a dealer. Paul L Fisher 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU 1989 325ix E30 M20 Elkhorn, WI. -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Goss - PA [mailto:Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:42 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 08:29:36 -0600 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Wouldn't mind that, as you are correct that even with buying them from AA I am still ahead financially except I have no warranty, no guarantee, which in the world of FI is super coin. Regardless, they are charging a premium of $70 for something that has a true market value of ~28 bucks. How reasonable is that? Besides they are already getting close to a grand of my dollars in that I need their proprietary programming and turbine fluid both of which I feel are sunk costs and reasonable to pay the proprietary price. To charge me more than double for simple mass-produced bosch injectors that aren't anything special is downright greedy!!! 250% markup, yeah that's real fair! Patrick -----Original Message----- From: docwyte@comcast.net [mailto:docwyte@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 11:22 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 04:16:20 +0000 From: docwyte@comcast.net Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] RE: Fuel Injectors used with AA supercharger You bought the kit used and are missing parts. AA is a business and is charging their cost plus markup. Personally I wouldn't want to put in the wrong injectors. I suspect you more than saved enough buying the kit used vs new, just suck it up and buy the injectors new from AA. You'll potentially save yourself alot of time and headaches... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.2.2/280 - Release Date: 3/13/2006
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#2. Dinan Rant - from Patrick Kelly
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> Subject: Dinan Rant I don't mind paying for the R&D of their proprietary stuff, but I'm not sure how much R&D they put into the off-the-shelf Koni SA's (not the shortened versions, either) that require a cut-n-gut of my front strut housings. How much R&D do they do to an off-the-shelf 3.5" Bosch HFM that you can get anywhere, but they mark up 100%? And I might have bought another set of springs from them, but I wanted to compare spring rates to what else was out there before I made my decision. I wasn't trying to rip anybody off, or misuse proprietary information. Hell, if I had the equipment, I'd be able to measure the spring rates; it ain't rocket science. Eibach tells you what their spring rates are; I assume they do some R&D, don't they? They seem to be able to make enough profit and still share this top-secret information with their customers. Bottom line: If you have something truly proprietary, which costs considerable R&D (e.g., a supercharger kit) you should be able to charge a premium. But charging big prices for everyday items and abusing your customers who have simple questions ain't my idea of customer service. Pat Kelly pkelly@agincourtcapital.com > -------------------- 4 -------------------- > Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:30:33 -0800 > From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was:Fuel Injectors used with AA > > On Mar 14, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > > Reminds me of Dinan. When I called to try to get specs for their > > springs (mine are either worn out or just too damn soft) I had one > > of the more frustrating calls of my life. > > > > "I'm sorry, we don't give that information out." > > What part of this surprises you? Dinan spends a lot of time in > development and test (I know this from visiting their facility and > spending some time with Steve Dinan). Why would they give out their > spring rates so you can go buy the same springs for less $$ from > someone else who hasn't committed the time and resources to do the > R&D? R&D is a business expense that has to be covered. > > > Thanks, Dinan. Your E36 stuff is overpriced cr@p, IMO. > > Dinan is not cheap, but their quality is excellent and their > manufacturing is sound. I was particularly impressed at how > fundamentally they understand the need for process in manufacturing > and development - not many shops "get" that. > > - Mark > ----- > mark@pdc-racing.net
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant - from Gary
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:33:13 -0600 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant I agree. The typical Dinan customer does not fit our profile, the DIY guys. They spend a good deal of money on marketing. They are looking for the guy who cares less about the actual spring rate, he just wants the car lower. ALL the spring manufacturers will tell you the spring rates. Basically all Dinan does is rebadge products. The springs are more than likely H&R springs. Do you think they put a lot of R&D into the Dinan Brembo brakes...probably just R&D for what paint to use on the calipers... They do nice stuff but it's overpriced and always has been.. Here is another example.....I was turbocharging my E28 535is...A car they have not offered a turbo kit for YEARS! I tried to get them to sell me the chip and the fuel controller they developed for the car back in the late 80's..They told me I could buy a turbo kit for 8500.00, they had two left over kits in stock...And he told me they had parts but could not sell them to a NON Dinan turbo kit owner...This was in 1999. Needless to say I literally laughed on the phone and told them no thanks... Gary No Dinan for anything I own... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 9:52 AM Subject: [E36M3] Dinan Rant > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 > From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> > Subject: Dinan Rant > > I don't mind paying for the R&D of their proprietary stuff, but I'm not > sure > how much R&D they put into the off-the-shelf Koni SA's (not the shortened > versions, either) that require a cut-n-gut of my front strut housings. How > much R&D do they do to an off-the-shelf 3.5" Bosch HFM that you can get > anywhere, but they mark up 100%? > > > > And I might have bought another set of springs from them, but I wanted to > compare spring rates to what else was out there before I made my decision. > I wasn't trying to rip anybody off, or misuse proprietary information. > Hell, if I had the equipment, I'd be able to measure the spring rates; it > ain't rocket science. > > > > Eibach tells you what their spring rates are; I assume they do some R&D, > don't they? They seem to be able to make enough profit and still share > this > top-secret information with their customers. > > > > Bottom line: If you have something truly proprietary, which costs > considerable R&D (e.g., a supercharger kit) you should be able to charge a > premium. But charging big prices for everyday items and abusing your > customers who have simple questions ain't my idea of customer service. > > > > Pat Kelly > > > > pkelly@agincourtcapital.com > > > >> -------------------- 4 -------------------- > >> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:30:33 -0800 > >> From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was:Fuel Injectors used with AA > >> > >> On Mar 14, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > >> > Reminds me of Dinan. When I called to try to get specs for their > >> > springs (mine are either worn out or just too damn soft) I had one > >> > of the more frustrating calls of my life. > >> > > >> > "I'm sorry, we don't give that information out." > >> > >> What part of this surprises you? Dinan spends a lot of time in > >> development and test (I know this from visiting their facility and > >> spending some time with Steve Dinan). Why would they give out their > >> spring rates so you can go buy the same springs for less $$ from > >> someone else who hasn't committed the time and resources to do the > >> R&D? R&D is a business expense that has to be covered. > >> > >> > Thanks, Dinan. Your E36 stuff is overpriced cr@p, IMO. > >> > >> Dinan is not cheap, but their quality is excellent and their > >> manufacturing is sound. I was particularly impressed at how > >> fundamentally they understand the need for process in manufacturing > >> and development - not many shops "get" that. > >> > >> - Mark > >> ----- > >> mark@pdc-racing.net > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:11:48 -0800 (PST) From: "Kent L. Shephard" <kents@kls-consulting.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant Hi, As an engineer, I feel the need to chime in. Dinan may do R&D but asking for specifications on something you may want to purchase is not out of line. No matter how much R&D goes into a product some specification release is required so the person can make an informed decision. How do you compare Eibach, Dinan, etc if you don't have spring rates? How do you compare superchargers if you don't have a dyno run to compare against other kits? Nobody asked them how they get the rates, what technique they use to cure the steel, and how they get the paint to stick. All those would be trade secrets. Spring rates are not. Kent Patrick Kelly wrote: > Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:49:57 -0500 > From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> > Subject: Dinan Rant > > I don't mind paying for the R&D of their proprietary stuff, but I'm not > sure > how much R&D they put into the off-the-shelf Koni SA's (not the shortened > versions, either) that require a cut-n-gut of my front strut housings. How > much R&D do they do to an off-the-shelf 3.5" Bosch HFM that you can get > anywhere, but they mark up 100%? > > > > And I might have bought another set of springs from them, but I wanted to > compare spring rates to what else was out there before I made my decision. > I wasn't trying to rip anybody off, or misuse proprietary information. > Hell, if I had the equipment, I'd be able to measure the spring rates; it > ain't rocket science. > > > > Eibach tells you what their spring rates are; I assume they do some R&D, > don't they? They seem to be able to make enough profit and still share > this > top-secret information with their customers. > > > > Bottom line: If you have something truly proprietary, which costs > considerable R&D (e.g., a supercharger kit) you should be able to charge a > premium. But charging big prices for everyday items and abusing your > customers who have simple questions ain't my idea of customer service. > > > > Pat Kelly > > > > pkelly@agincourtcapital.com > > > >> -------------------- 4 -------------------- > >> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:30:33 -0800 > >> From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Was:Fuel Injectors used with AA > >> > >> On Mar 14, 2006, at 2:12 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote: > >> > Reminds me of Dinan. When I called to try to get specs for their > >> > springs (mine are either worn out or just too damn soft) I had one > >> > of the more frustrating calls of my life. > >> > > >> > "I'm sorry, we don't give that information out." > >> > >> What part of this surprises you? Dinan spends a lot of time in > >> development and test (I know this from visiting their facility and > >> spending some time with Steve Dinan). Why would they give out their > >> spring rates so you can go buy the same springs for less $$ from > >> someone else who hasn't committed the time and resources to do the > >> R&D? R&D is a business expense that has to be covered. > >> > >> > Thanks, Dinan. Your E36 stuff is overpriced cr@p, IMO. > >> > >> Dinan is not cheap, but their quality is excellent and their > >> manufacturing is sound. I was particularly impressed at how > >> fundamentally they understand the need for process in manufacturing > >> and development - not many shops "get" that. > >> > >> - Mark > >> ----- > >> mark@pdc-racing.net > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > -- Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant - from Andrew Kalman
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 10:04:44 -0800 From: Andrew Kalman <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dinan Rant Yeah, their stuff is expensive ... BUT ... I spent the big bucks (for me, back when I was at my second job) back in 1988 or so for a full Stage IV (yeah, they had Stage IV back then) suspension for my E12 530i (re-engined to be a 537i now). I now have over 100,000 (!) miles on that suspension, it is beautifully balanced despite the E12's tendency towards oversteer, it can hold its own against my E36 M3 LWT at non-track speeds, and rides better than our '03 MPV minivan. So they really nailed it in terms of picking the right springs and shocks for my application, and I respect that. When I went from 16" to 17" wheels and tires on the 530i, I had to pull the Dinan rear sway bar and replace it with the thinner stock sway bar. But that's entirely understandable, as the vehicle's dynamics changed a lot when I went to 40-profile tires. -- ______________________________________ Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com
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#6. zionsville - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:41:13 -0600 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: zionsville Anybody have a promo code, or better yet know how to get one? Patrick Goss 97 M3/4
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#7. VAC Oil Pan Baffle - from Mo Karamat
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:04:37 -0500 From: Mo Karamat <karamatm@optonline.net> Subject: VAC Oil Pan Baffle Dear Group, Hello. I just received my VAC oil pan baffle. Unfortunately the box did not come with any pics of the unit installed in the pan. Does anyone have any pics of how/where to install the pan in the baffle? The welder who is going to do this for me is not knowledagable of such things, so I want to make sure that I can tell him exactly where to weld it. any help would be appreciated. Thanks Mo
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#8. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle - from Marco
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:14:47 -0800 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle It's really self evident when you pull the pan. It's not brain surgery. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Mo Karamat [mailto:karamatm@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 11:12 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 14:04:37 -0500 From: Mo Karamat <karamatm@optonline.net> Subject: VAC Oil Pan Baffle Dear Group, Hello. I just received my VAC oil pan baffle. Unfortunately the box did not come with any pics of the unit installed in the pan. Does anyone have any pics of how/where to install the pan in the baffle? The welder who is going to do this for me is not knowledagable of such things, so I want to make sure that I can tell him exactly where to weld it. any help would be appreciated. Thanks Mo ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#9. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:24:34 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle >It's really self evident when you pull the pan. It's not brain surgery. There's helpful pictures here but let's not start that old flame war again please: http://www.brazeauracing.com/oilpan.htm -Carlos 98 M3
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#10. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle - from Marco
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Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 12:49:21 -0800 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle just look at this picture the VAC piece is a direct replacement of the part on the left side. The VAC piece does not have all the other bits. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com [mailto:Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:32 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:24:34 -0500 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] VAC Oil Pan Baffle >It's really self evident when you pull the pan. It's not brain surgery. There's helpful pictures here but let's not start that old flame war again please: http://www.brazeauracing.com/oilpan.htm -Carlos 98 M3 ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************