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#1. RE: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? - from Tom Melton
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:20:31 -0400 From: "Tom Melton" <Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? Ahmad, In my reading under stock class: 7. Body/Chassis/Interior H. Interiors, with the exception of rear seats and the panels affected by the installation of the roll cage, must be intact. A passenger seat is required. The passenger seat must either be a stock seat or meet the same requirements as the driver's seat. Headliners must remain in place. I would read this to say on a stock class car, the sunroof mechanism has to stay in place. IE - it is not stated that it can be removed. And further for prepared class: 7. Body/Chassis/Interior C. Interior may be removed, except dash and door panels, providing the car "conforms to the spirit" of the BMW CCA Club Racing Program, i.e., it is aesthetically pleasing. <snip> D. The "interior" is defined to include carpeting, seats, headliner, sounddeadening materials, trim panels, console, entertainment and navigation systems, speakers, sun visors, door mechanisms and the sunroof mechanism. If the sunroof mechanism is removed, the panel must either be securely sealed (bolted/welded/bonded) or secured in place with two retaining straps 1 inch wide and extending 3 inches beyond the sunroof opening on each side. The panel must be flush with the roofline. The sunroof panel must be of the same materials as originally manufactured in Prepared. If the original panel was made of glass, an alternate panel of metal must be installed. So, again - it looks like you are stuck with the entire sunroof assembly as installed in your car from the factory. -Tom >>> "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> 4/11/2006 11:04:35 am >>> Tom, It says I need to keep the head liner in place. My current cassette is broken and the sunroof flaps around. I had to put a racer's tape around the outside to make it not rattle/whistle at high speeds. I was thinking about removing the gunk up to and welding the damn thing shut. And for the weight loss, throw in a "Cool Suit" instead ;) Ahmad From: Tom Melton [mailto:Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:49 AM To: E36M3@bmw-m.net; Ahmad Lutfeali Subject: Re: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? Ahmad, I have the cassette (complete) in the basement, I can weigh it. The only thing missing from the assembly is the metal outer skin. I think the metal skin was 3-5 pounds, but you would have to keep that anyway... Is removing the sunroof assembly legal in stock? I would think not, but have not read the rules for that item. -Tom >>> "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> 4/11/2006 10:30:29 am >>> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:21:35 -0400 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Sunroof Weight? Since we are discussing weight loss here, Does anyone know how much the entire sunroof assembly weigh? For a credible source I have heard the cassette is about 3-4 lbs and the motor being about a pound or two. Back when the Bimmerforums 'search' was working, I had seen people post its worth about 40lbs total. At present the sunroof is not functional in my car (broken cassette) and if I could remove the darn weight that high, I would. The problem is, I would have to remove the cage to do it PITA :( If its only a couple of pounds, I may not bother. Anyone else with some feedback on sunroof weight? (mine is a 1998 model). Thanks, Ahmad ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Re: Rear Seat Weight? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:29:35 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Rear Seat Weight? Did you include the seat belt receptacles and the hardware with them? That's another couple pounds anyway. Plus the "T" pieces that the folding seat backs connect to are easily removable. Between all the loose hardware and seat belt stuff (not attached to the seats), that's another 4-5 lbs for sure. I just removed all of this stuff from a customer car, a good weight savings for sure! Jack Money Elephant Motorsports http://www.elephantmotortsports.com On 4/11/06, kim.burgess@att.net <kim.burgess@att.net> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:32:19 +0000 > From: kim.burgess@att.net > Subject: Re: Rear Seat Weight? > > Seat back side bolsters 3 lbs each (6 lbs) > Fold-down seat backs 16 lbs each (32 lbs) > Seat base 13 lbs > all weighed on a bathroom scale > > KLBurgess > > > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:45:40 -0700 > From: "twisty M3" <twistym3@hotmail.com> > Subject: Rear Seat Weight? > <snip> Anyone know what the total weight of seat bottoms, fold down > portions and side bolsters would come to? Is there a pre-fabricated, > carpeted piece that can be purchased to utilize that might still fold down > or at least be somewhat easily removed when storage space is needed? Thanks! > Jonathan L. > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#3. RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions - from Mike Frank
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:35:49 -0400 From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions Ahmad, Thanks for your reply. So, it sounds like your saying that my shocks are bottoming out as opposed to my springs coil binding, correct? If this worked for you I'll give it a try. I'd rather have a longer spring, but it doesn't look like anyone knows of a good alternative. BTW, do you have Roland's # handy? I haven't spoken with him in a long time but he's always very helpful. Thanks, Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Ahmad Lutfeali [mailto:m3_racer99@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:01 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions > > Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:54:38 -0400 > From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: Looking for front spring suggestions > > Mike, > > The setup which you currently have is decent. However, you would require > some minor tweaking here. > > For starters, since you have Konis, they should be set to full stiff both > front and rear. The max these Konis can handle are 500lbs front and 600lbs > rear and you are close to the envelop here (BTW the front springs are > 400lbs > and rears are 515lbs on the H&R Race; I have heard 345lbs out there and > confirmed it with Roland at H&R). > > You are right on the ride height issues. The front of the car will sit a > lot > lower and the rear will rise a bit (as compared to the sports). Rake on > these cars are VERY essential and you should run .75inches lower in the > front than in the rear. To fix this and to eliminate the bottoming out and > to get to close enough rake. Do the following: > > Add another 9mm pad at the bottom of the front strut (BMW Part number: > 31332227901). No need to remove the front strut, just jack up the front, > remove the wheel, CUT the pad at one end so it goes around the strut- this > should be easy since you can lift the short spring up; worst come to > worst, > go to Autozone and rent one of their free spring compressors and put it on > while the suspension is still on the car). Once the car sits back, it will > keep the pad settled plus the strut housing will keep it in place too. > > With 2 9mm pads on both top and bottom of the strut and both the rear > spring > pads on top and the spring bottom cover removed (yes you can run it metal > to > metal at the rear), your ride height will be perfect (rake wise) and your > front bottoming out issue will be solved. Ask me how I know ;) > > > Ahmad > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:19:16 -0400 > From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> > Subject: Looking for front spring suggestions > > > My current setup: H&R Race springs, Koni Sports (single adjustable), K-Mac > Camber plates, RD Sport swaybars. I'm very happy with the handling > overall > for both street & track. However, when I switched from H&R Sport springs > a > few years ago, the front end dropped quite a bit, maybe 1.5 inches or > more, > and the rear end actually went up about an inch. Go figure. I added and > extra 7.5mm spring pad in front to get it to a reasonably streetable > height. > Right now I have just under 12.5" from the center of the front wheel to > the > fender (measuring straight up). > > One thing I immediately noticed when I switched from Sport to Race springs > is that the front of the car will give a harsh bang over large (for the > M3) > bumps. I'm assuming the suspension is bottoming out. Note, with the > Sports > these same bumps did not cause the front end to bottom out. A peek at the > springs with the suspension loaded confirms that there's not a lot of > travel. I bought the springs used and I've always wondered if maybe they > were not quite right, maybe for the wrong year or model (but they fit). > Again the car handles great, so I'm not unhappy. I've been running like > this for a few years and I'm finally deciding to have a go at improving > it. > > My question is the following. Does anyone know if there is a front spring > available for our cars that has roughly the same rate (345lbs./inch, > progressive?) as the H&R Race but is slightly longer? I'd like to keep > the > ride height where it is or maybe raise it a little bit. A little stiffer > would probably be OK, but I don't want to make a big change. Basically > I'd > like to turn the spring pad into suspension travel, plus maybe a little > more. It's not really broke, so I don't want to fix it too much. I'd > like > to avoid going to a full GC coilover setup if I can. > > I'm open to any other ideas/solutions as well. Sorry for the lengthy > post. > > Thanks, > > Mike Frank > 97 M3
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#4. [E36M3] Which Brand? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:52:29 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] Which Brand? > > From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> > > Although others may disagree I purchased full (inner and outer) left and > right Meyle's off ebay for less than $34 each (id was performance parts > store). At that price if they last only half as much as the oems or > lem's I am still way ahead. My oem were still tight at 90K, but needed > replaced due to frozen adjusters... Well, I strongly disagree, and I have first-hand experience. I too tried to save money with Meyle tie rods. I bought two complete sets. Both failed quickly, one set within 8k miles and the other within 12k miles, and this was simply street miles on an E30 with 95% of the miles highway. That is pathetic. I could be handed free new Meyle parts and I wouldn't install them on any of my cars or my friends' cars and would be further ahead selling them on eBay to some unsuspecting sucker. ;-) But I wouldn't do that since Meyle is junk. There is no question that I would only use Lemforder for all suspension components. Regards, Rich
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#5. RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions - from Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:55:13 -0400 From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions > Rake on these cars are VERY essential and you should run .75inches lower in the > front than in the rear. Ahmad, I would agree with the number but where did you get that info? I disagree that the front should be lower than the rear. I looked up the ride heights on the Bentley as my roommate's E36 that I borrowed for an event at Mid-Ohio had the front lower than the rear so I just wanted to confirm that the front is always supposed to be *higher* than the rear. The figures in the Bentley are in mm but I would agree that approx. ..75 inches in rake is about the right number. His car was on coilovers in the front and was poorly adjusted by a shop here in Detroit and had the front adjusted way too low compared to the rear ride height. -Carlos.
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Which Brand? - from Patrick Goss - PA
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:01:07 -0500 From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Which Brand? Well it seems I have an oil change or two before I need to replace them again. Inspection is next month, I will see if they pass again, only 4-5K since last one, how is that for BMW preservation? Patrick ________________________________ From: rdorffer@gmail.com [mailto:rdorffer@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Rich Dorffer Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:52 AM To: E36M3 Cc: Patrick Goss - PA; stefanoale@excite.com Subject: [E36M3] Which Brand? From: "Patrick Goss - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM > Although others may disagree I purchased full (inner and outer) left and right Meyle's off ebay for less than $34 each (id was performance parts store). At that price if they last only half as much as the oems or lem's I am still way ahead. My oem were still tight at 90K, but needed replaced due to frozen adjusters... Well, I strongly disagree, and I have first-hand experience. I too tried to save money with Meyle tie rods. I bought two complete sets. Both failed quickly, one set within 8k miles and the other within 12k miles, and this was simply street miles on an E30 with 95% of the miles highway. That is pathetic. I could be handed free new Meyle parts and I wouldn't install them on any of my cars or my friends' cars and would be further ahead selling them on eBay to some unsuspecting sucker. ;-) But I wouldn't do that since Meyle is junk. There is no question that I would only use Lemforder for all suspension components. Regards, Rich
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#7. Re: Sunroof Weight? - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:20:42 -0400 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Sunroof Weight? on 4/11/06 11:20 AM, "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> wrote: > Does anyone know how much the entire sunroof assembly weigh? For a credible > source I have heard the cassette is about 3-4 lbs and the motor being about > a pound or two. Back when the Bimmerforums 'search' was working, I had seen > people post its worth about 40lbs total. > > At present the sunroof is not functional in my car (broken cassette) and if > I could remove the darn weight that high, I would. The problem is, I would > have to remove the cage to do it PITA :( If its only a couple of pounds, I > may not bother. Anyone else with some feedback on sunroof weight? (mine is a > 1998 model). We removed the sunroof on a friend's E36 325i race car a few weeks ago. Actual measured weight savings (usual bathroom scale method) with motor was 23 lbs, not including the roof panel, which we kept, or the headliner, which was weighed separately as part of a pile of interior trim. I don't think you'd be able to remove the headliner intact with your cage in place, as it's rather large. We did however remove the sunroof cassette despite a full welded cage, but I had to cut the sunroof side rails in half to get it down to manageable size for extraction. The roof panel is now held in with machined aluminum blocks bolted in place (there's a guy who sells these). We didn't weight the roof panel itself, since it was reinstalled, but I'd guess about 15 lbs. it's pretty stout, with welded-in reinforcements on the underside. Neil 96 M3
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#8. RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:25:17 -0400 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions Mike, I went to their website and got their number, called them up and insisted I speak to Roland. Just raise the height and give it a shot. With 2 Nine MM spring pads, you should be all set :) I would have kept those springs if I were running Konis, but with the stock Bilstiens, they were horrible (under damped-pogo stick feeling). The next upgrade would be to use Turner Group G springs (which I have along with matching Bilsteins). I think you can run these springs as well with your Konis but there is not need for it (IMO) since all you need more height. Ahmad -----Original Message----- From: Mike Frank [mailto:mfrank28@insightbb.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:36 AM To: 'E36M3' Cc: 'Ahmad Lutfeali' Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions Ahmad, Thanks for your reply. So, it sounds like your saying that my shocks are bottoming out as opposed to my springs coil binding, correct? If this worked for you I'll give it a try. I'd rather have a longer spring, but it doesn't look like anyone knows of a good alternative. BTW, do you have Roland's # handy? I haven't spoken with him in a long time but he's always very helpful. Thanks, Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Ahmad Lutfeali [mailto:m3_racer99@hotmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:01 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [E36M3] RE: Looking for front spring suggestions > > Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:54:38 -0400 > From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: Looking for front spring suggestions > > Mike, > > The setup which you currently have is decent. However, you would > require some minor tweaking here. > > For starters, since you have Konis, they should be set to full stiff > both front and rear. The max these Konis can handle are 500lbs front > and 600lbs rear and you are close to the envelop here (BTW the front > springs are 400lbs and rears are 515lbs on the H&R Race; I have heard > 345lbs out there and confirmed it with Roland at H&R). > > You are right on the ride height issues. The front of the car will sit > a lot lower and the rear will rise a bit (as compared to the sports). > Rake on these cars are VERY essential and you should run .75inches > lower in the front than in the rear. To fix this and to eliminate the > bottoming out and to get to close enough rake. Do the following: > > Add another 9mm pad at the bottom of the front strut (BMW Part number: > 31332227901). No need to remove the front strut, just jack up the > front, remove the wheel, CUT the pad at one end so it goes around the > strut- this should be easy since you can lift the short spring up; > worst come to worst, go to Autozone and rent one of their free spring > compressors and put it on while the suspension is still on the car). > Once the car sits back, it will keep the pad settled plus the strut > housing will keep it in place too. > > With 2 9mm pads on both top and bottom of the strut and both the rear > spring pads on top and the spring bottom cover removed (yes you can > run it metal to metal at the rear), your ride height will be perfect > (rake wise) and your front bottoming out issue will be solved. Ask me > how I know ;) > > > Ahmad > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:19:16 -0400 > From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> > Subject: Looking for front spring suggestions > > > My current setup: H&R Race springs, Koni Sports (single adjustable), > K-Mac Camber plates, RD Sport swaybars. I'm very happy with the > handling overall for both street & track. However, when I switched > from H&R Sport springs a few years ago, the front end dropped quite a > bit, maybe 1.5 inches or more, and the rear end actually went up about > an inch. Go figure. I added and extra 7.5mm spring pad in front to > get it to a reasonably streetable height. > Right now I have just under 12.5" from the center of the front wheel > to the fender (measuring straight up). > > One thing I immediately noticed when I switched from Sport to Race > springs is that the front of the car will give a harsh bang over large > (for the > M3) > bumps. I'm assuming the suspension is bottoming out. Note, with the > Sports these same bumps did not cause the front end to bottom out. A > peek at the springs with the suspension loaded confirms that there's > not a lot of travel. I bought the springs used and I've always > wondered if maybe they were not quite right, maybe for the wrong year > or model (but they fit). > Again the car handles great, so I'm not unhappy. I've been running > like this for a few years and I'm finally deciding to have a go at > improving it. > > My question is the following. Does anyone know if there is a front > spring available for our cars that has roughly the same rate > (345lbs./inch, > progressive?) as the H&R Race but is slightly longer? I'd like to > keep the ride height where it is or maybe raise it a little bit. A > little stiffer would probably be OK, but I don't want to make a big > change. Basically I'd like to turn the spring pad into suspension > travel, plus maybe a little more. It's not really broke, so I don't > want to fix it too much. I'd like to avoid going to a full GC > coilover setup if I can. > > I'm open to any other ideas/solutions as well. Sorry for the lengthy > post. > > Thanks, > > Mike Frank > 97 M3
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#9. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? - from Gary
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:32:19 -0500 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? I know on my E30 it was at least 40lbs. Once we had it out and skinned over it completely changed how the car felt... I am pulling mine out and reskinning the roof whenever I do all the body work. Gary soon to be boosting! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:40 AM Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? > Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 07:38:58 -0700 > From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> > Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? > > I've heard the 40# number too. I think if you end up removing all of the > headliner and sunroof components you get closer to the higher number. I > never weighed the stuff when I removed it, but it's more than 10, less > than > 40. ;-) > > If you're club racing make sure whatever class you're in allows removal of > all that stuff. > > Is your cage bolt in? I removed mine with the cage in place. Mine was > welded in. it was a pita. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ahmad Lutfeali [mailto:m3_racer99@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:30 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? > > > Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:21:35 -0400 > From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> > Subject: Sunroof Weight? > > Since we are discussing weight loss here, > > Does anyone know how much the entire sunroof assembly weigh? For a > credible > source I have heard the cassette is about 3-4 lbs and the motor being > about > a pound or two. Back when the Bimmerforums 'search' was working, I had > seen > people post its worth about 40lbs total. > > At present the sunroof is not functional in my car (broken cassette) and > if > I could remove the darn weight that high, I would. The problem is, I would > have to remove the cage to do it PITA :( If its only a couple of pounds, I > may not bother. Anyone else with some feedback on sunroof weight? (mine is > a > 1998 model). > > Thanks, > > Ahmad > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#10. RE: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:31:38 -0400 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? Tom, You were right. Thanks for the pointer and saving me the work ;) A.L. _____ From: Tom Melton [mailto:Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:21 AM To: E36M3@bmw-m.net; Ahmad Lutfeali Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? Ahmad, In my reading under stock class: 7. Body/Chassis/Interior H. Interiors, with the exception of rear seats and the panels affected by the installation of the roll cage, must be intact. A passenger seat is required. The passenger seat must either be a stock seat or meet the same requirements as the driver's seat. Headliners must remain in place. I would read this to say on a stock class car, the sunroof mechanism has to stay in place. IE - it is not stated that it can be removed. And further for prepared class: 7. Body/Chassis/Interior C. Interior may be removed, except dash and door panels, providing the car "conforms to the spirit" of the BMW CCA Club Racing Program, i.e., it is aesthetically pleasing. <snip> D. The "interior" is defined to include carpeting, seats, headliner, sounddeadening materials, trim panels, console, entertainment and navigation systems, speakers, sun visors, door mechanisms and the sunroof mechanism. If the sunroof mechanism is removed, the panel must either be securely sealed (bolted/welded/bonded) or secured in place with two retaining straps 1 inch wide and extending 3 inches beyond the sunroof opening on each side. The panel must be flush with the roofline. The sunroof panel must be of the same materials as originally manufactured in Prepared. If the original panel was made of glass, an alternate panel of metal must be installed. So, again - it looks like you are stuck with the entire sunroof assembly as installed in your car from the factory. -Tom >>> "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> 4/11/2006 11:04:35 am >>> Tom, It says I need to keep the head liner in place. My current cassette is broken and the sunroof flaps around. I had to put a racer's tape around the outside to make it not rattle/whistle at high speeds. I was thinking about removing the gunk up to and welding the damn thing shut. And for the weight loss, throw in a "Cool Suit" instead ;) Ahmad _____ From: Tom Melton [mailto:Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:49 AM To: E36M3@bmw-m.net; Ahmad Lutfeali Subject: Re: [E36M3] Sunroof Weight? Ahmad, I have the cassette (complete) in the basement, I can weigh it. The only thing missing from the assembly is the metal outer skin. I think the metal skin was 3-5 pounds, but you would have to keep that anyway... Is removing the sunroof assembly legal in stock? I would think not, but have not read the rules for that item. -Tom >>> "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> 4/11/2006 10:30:29 am >>> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:21:35 -0400 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: Sunroof Weight? Since we are discussing weight loss here, Does anyone know how much the entire sunroof assembly weigh? For a credible source I have heard the cassette is about 3-4 lbs and the motor being about a pound or two. Back when the Bimmerforums 'search' was working, I had seen people post its worth about 40lbs total. At present the sunroof is not functional in my car (broken cassette) and if I could remove the darn weight that high, I would. The problem is, I would have to remove the cage to do it PITA :( If its only a couple of pounds, I may not bother. Anyone else with some feedback on sunroof weight? (mine is a 1998 model). Thanks, Ahmad ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************