-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Goss, Patrick - PA
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:30:14 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... Geesh Carlos, do the Cost Benefit Analysis, a dime costs a dime, a mallet well probably 10 dollars American and weighs much, much more. :) If you are carrying a mallet in your M, you probably have been watching too many episodes of the sopranos. Anybody have that weight/acceleration ratio for all you M3 tuners, (mandatory content), so we can get ballistic on this thread. Patrick -----Original Message----- From: Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com [mailto:Carlos.F.Lopez@jci.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:08 PM To: Goss, Patrick - PA Cc: e36m3@bmw-m.net Subject: RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... >Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. >I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely a >dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just >depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). Wrong again Pat Goss (btw I hate your segment on Motorweek). :-) A friend (M3 owner soon IP racer I think) said that when he raced his Buick in a roundy round crash 'em up series that he saw a team change a radiator once using only a big mallet. A lil' larger tool than a dime but I bet they did it faster. ;-) -Carlos.
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Rich Dorffer
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:47:20 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... > > Many people can and simply do only change thermos without doing anything > else, while arguably not the best thing it can certainly get you by. > Its absolutely better than doing nothing and ignoring a spastic temp > gauge. Fact of the matter the original poster of this question did not > comment as to prior repair history or cooling system parts replaced thus > far and only asked about the thermo, so that where I focused the > answering of my question. Additional note, at 141K, the subject M3 is > probably not on the original hoses, radiator, housing, pump or coolant, > and again please refer to my 2nd para. Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an E36 M3? Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely a > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). How do you remove the temp sender with a dime? I agree, it is pretty easy. A lot easier than removing an original water pump that won't let go of the M44 block let me tell you, especially when the threaded screw holes on the water pump flange are either inaccessible or the flange simple bends and breaks off. PITA and much swearing ensues. Regards, Rich
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Goss, Patrick - PA
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:55:36 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... Disclaimer: I said pull radiator, not install new :P -----Original Message----- From: Rich Dorffer [mailto:E36M3Digest@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:49 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:47:20 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... > > Many people can and simply do only change thermos without doing anything > else, while arguably not the best thing it can certainly get you by. > Its absolutely better than doing nothing and ignoring a spastic temp > gauge. Fact of the matter the original poster of this question did not > comment as to prior repair history or cooling system parts replaced thus > far and only asked about the thermo, so that where I focused the > answering of my question. Additional note, at 141K, the subject M3 is > probably not on the original hoses, radiator, housing, pump or coolant, > and again please refer to my 2nd para. Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an E36 M3? Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely a > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). How do you remove the temp sender with a dime? I agree, it is pretty easy. A lot easier than removing an original water pump that won't let go of the M44 block let me tell you, especially when the threaded screw holes on the water pump flange are either inaccessible or the flange simple bends and breaks off. PITA and much swearing ensues. Regards, Rich ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Jim Bassett
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:58:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On Tue, April 25, 2006 1:48 pm, Rich Dorffer said: > Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an > E36 > M3? How about 99K on a second radiator? No? Nevermind; carry on :-) Jim Bassett
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Raza Uddin
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:03:42 -0700 From: "Raza Uddin" <raza.uddin@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On 4/25/06, Rich Dorffer <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> wrote: > > Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an > E36 M3? I got 120k out of my original radiator and only replaced it out of peace of mind (and the upcoming track season) rather than it breaking. It could have easily gone longer as it looked to be in great shape. I didn't want to tempt fate to see how far I could push a stock radiator that would sees track and autocross usage. I overhauled the entire cooling system and all the parts looked to still have life in them, but, again, I didn't want to risk it. Drive Safely, Raza
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Mark D
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:04:10 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 15:48 -0500, Rich Dorffer wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:47:20 -0400 > From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> > Subject: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... > > > > > Many people can and simply do only change thermos without doing anything > > else, while arguably not the best thing it can certainly get you by. > > Its absolutely better than doing nothing and ignoring a spastic temp > > gauge. Fact of the matter the original poster of this question did not > > comment as to prior repair history or cooling system parts replaced thus > > far and only asked about the thermo, so that where I focused the > > answering of my question. Additional note, at 141K, the subject M3 is > > probably not on the original hoses, radiator, housing, pump or coolant, > > and again please refer to my 2nd para. > > > Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an E36 > M3? > 170K > Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. > > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely a > > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just > > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). > > > How do you remove the temp sender with a dime? > 1994 Honda civic. Two bolts and it pops out. The radiator is barely bigger than a notebook so easy to handle. And not very expensive. No temp sender in it. > I agree, it is pretty easy. A lot easier than removing an original water > pump that won't let go of the M44 block let me tell you, especially when the > threaded screw holes on the water pump flange are either inaccessible or the > flange simple bends and breaks off. PITA and much swearing ensues. Sure, much easier than a water pump, and probably much easier than my chevy beretta where the radiator, fan and some other parts must come out as a single assembly weighing a ton. Thanks, Mark
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] Radiator Question -- fluid leaking, should I be - from Mark D
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:05:48 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Radiator Question -- fluid leaking, should I be concerned... On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 14:48 -0500, mdriver13@aol.com wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:39:48 -0400 > From: mdriver13@aol.com > Subject: Radiator Question -- fluid leaking, should I be concerned... > > Group, > > I'm starting to experience a "leakage" of fluid which appears to be coming from under the radiator cap and/or bleed screw but hard to tell exactly where. There are signs of dried antifreeze on the black plastic cover and running down the sides of the expansion/refill tank which occurred after this weekend's autox. I've started to look everyday but only find the dry crusty stuff, never wet, and never on the ground. I did need to add 250ml of water/antifreeze to the system after only two weeks and the weather here in PA is not that warm yet. > > Question is, "Is this the beginning of the end for my radiator (only 46K miles) or is it just the cap and/or bleeder screw that needs replacing?" > Cap and bleed screw are a lot cheaper than rad, and both are failure prone. With 46K I'd not bet on the radiator being done yet ;) Thanks, Mark
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Mark D
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:17:45 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 14:29 -0500, Goss, Patrick - PA wrote: > Who me a LIAR, Goss's garage has over 100,000 viewers. You're the first > complaint, let me log that in our circular filing cabinet. > The lie bit was a joke. Kind of my display of my frustration over what should have been a simple job turn into a nightmare and a scary drive with a busted radiator for me. It's not like you can just drive over to pep boys to get replacement parts. > Feeding of radiators and baggage (aka bmw coolant, metal housing, hoses, > and let me add the pump) are common sense maintenance items. Many of us > knew that before we purchased these cars. Google E36 and that will be > the first thing you get back. > Common sense items sure, but I wouldn't think that it's possible that I would be REQUIRED to replace the radiator while attempting to do the thermostat. What if the housing crumbles? What if he never read all kinds of bimmerdiy articles like I have, I'd rather have him come out of the forums expecting the worst, that way he's totally stoked when he gets the best ;) The radiator isn't a common sense item either but he should be prepared for the possibilities. If he hasn't flushed his coolant in a year... or worse.. he may not have disconnected the hose at all even to flush. That hose may not have been disconnected for 10 years ;) > Many people can and simply do only change thermos without doing anything > else, while arguably not the best thing it can certainly get you by. > Its absolutely better than doing nothing and ignoring a spastic temp > gauge. Fact of the matter the original poster of this question did not > comment as to prior repair history or cooling system parts replaced thus > far and only asked about the thermo, so that where I focused the > answering of my question. Additional note, at 141K, the subject M3 is > probably not on the original hoses, radiator, housing, pump or coolant, > and again please refer to my 2nd para. > Sure, and why not, but I have the same vehicle as him with similar mileage and things didn't go well and I wanted him to be aware of the possibility of the nightmare. That's right, we don't know repair history, but I assume unrepaired anything. These are really reliable cars in my experience. > Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely a > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). I'm sure, but I was on borrowed time in the shop (not my shop or lift) and I live in the middle of the city, and a radiator wasn't available to me while I was in the shop. My desire to save a dime only goes so far ;) I know I know what I'm doing, but there's no substitute for experience and my mechanic has it. I know I don't need a lift to replace the radiator but I really hate working with coolant and feel the need to have proper facilities so at least passerby's don't stare at me strangely while their dog drinks the spillover. Anyway, I didn't mean any offense. I guess I just like to hear the worst that way when I get something better I feel good ;) I like hearing about people doing 75K mile maintenance and I don't have to bother until 175K because the prior owners totally babied the car as much as I do. I dream of finding an E46 that was taken care of like this thing. Thanks, Mark
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Rich Dorffer
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:35:46 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On 4/25/06, Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 15:48 -0500, Rich Dorffer wrote: > > > > > Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original radiator in an > E36 > > M3? > > > 170K You know that it was original that whole time? > Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to switch radiators. > > > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator with merely > a > > > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much better, just > > > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). > > > > > > How do you remove the temp sender with a dime? > > > > 1994 Honda civic. Two bolts and it pops out. The radiator is barely > bigger than a notebook so easy to handle. And not very expensive. No > temp sender in it. Bzzt, we are talking E36 (see Patrick's initial comments), specifically the M3. Regards, Rich
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... - from Mark D
Top
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:44:02 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Thermostat Question -- Should I be concerned... On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 17:35 -0400, Rich Dorffer wrote: > On 4/25/06, Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 15:48 -0500, Rich Dorffer wrote: > > > > > Has anyone here ever gotten 141k miles out of an original > radiator in an E36 > > M3? > > > 170K > > You know that it was original that whole time? Yes, it's quite clearly original. Additionally, I have full service records and have no reason to believe there was any lies. Even the accident the car was in was fully disclosed with documentation and photos (extremely minor). > > > Mark btw, the E36 has to be the easiest of vehicles to > switch radiators. > > > I haven't seen any other vehicle you can pull the radiator > with merely a > > > dime, (although a flat-headed screw driver works much > better, just > > > depends if you remember it's in the trunk lid tool case). > > > > > > How do you remove the temp sender with a dime? > > > > 1994 Honda civic. Two bolts and it pops out. The radiator is > barely > bigger than a notebook so easy to handle. And not very > expensive. No > temp sender in it. > > Bzzt, we are talking E36 (see Patrick's initial comments), > specifically the M3. > "I haven't seen any other vehicle"... The point he was making was involving all cars, and to be blunt, the civic is a lot easier job to replace the radiator if nothing else because it's so tiny. Thanks, Mark