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#1. Re: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:48:38 -0700 From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question In most modern uni-body cars, the front and rear glass is a stressed member and vital to the proper function of the chassis. (Why do cracks propegate so quickly? Because of the enormous stress the glass is under.) Your described problem is absolutely conceivable and the reason why I never replace windshields or rear windows unless absolutely necessarry. Gus On 5/30/06, Matthew Teel <mteel@beluga.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:33:54 -0800 > From: Matthew Teel <mteel@beluga.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question > > I also have a four door without the fold down seats. Here's an interesting > tale of chassis stiffness: > > I never shared this with the group, as it was so painful to recall... But I > took my car to the stealer to install a new starter. I just wasn't up to the > task of doing it myself and the labor cost wasn't too bad, considering the > PITA of the job. > > Big mistake. > > When they were done, the kid who brought my car around failed to set the > emergency brake, or place it in gear. The car rolled back into a fence that > consisted of a heavy chain suspended between steel posts. The right rear > quarter panel was damaged to the tune of about $2500 and required it to be > replaced. They agreed to fix it, but I was worried that my beloved car would > never be the same. > > When I picked up the work, workmanship appeared acceptable. I took the car > home still very upset about the whole deal. My worst nightmare was realized > when my car drove like cr@p. It was just "wrong" and it felt like the > chassis was twisting torsionally. I was mad as a hornet and determined right > then to sell my car. > > Later that day I heard a rattle in the back window area. I took the car back > and complained about the window making noise. They told me that the glass > company (who I have dealt with many times and have never had trouble with) > had a batch of bad window sealant and that every window they had completed > that day didn't set up properly. Of course, no one had notified me. > > So I had them reinstall the rear window, and voila!!! The car drove just > like new again. > > I had no idea the rear glass played such an important role in chassis > stiffness. > > Matthew > 98 M3/4 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: cteague@cox.net [mailto:cteague@cox.net] > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:55 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question > > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:51:42 -0400 > From: <cteague@cox.net> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question > > Jim, > > I think Paul meant chassis stiffness. Anyway, the springs are the same, but > supposedly the 4 door had a slightly higher torsional stiffness. Doesn't > matter if you put a full cage inside of course. Some of the 4 doors, like > mine, don't have the fold down seats. Instead, I have a nice welded in > shear panel behind the rear seat which probably helps some also. > > Chris > 97 M3/4 > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#2. RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from Marco
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 11:59:00 -0700 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question interesting. I guess since the racecar has a cage the replacement of the rear window with Lexan wasn't an issue. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Teel [mailto:mteel@beluga.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:45 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 10:33:54 -0800 From: Matthew Teel <mteel@beluga.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question I also have a four door without the fold down seats. Here's an interesting tale of chassis stiffness: I never shared this with the group, as it was so painful to recall... But I took my car to the stealer to install a new starter. I just wasn't up to the task of doing it myself and the labor cost wasn't too bad, considering the PITA of the job. Big mistake. When they were done, the kid who brought my car around failed to set the emergency brake, or place it in gear. The car rolled back into a fence that consisted of a heavy chain suspended between steel posts. The right rear quarter panel was damaged to the tune of about $2500 and required it to be replaced. They agreed to fix it, but I was worried that my beloved car would never be the same. When I picked up the work, workmanship appeared acceptable. I took the car home still very upset about the whole deal. My worst nightmare was realized when my car drove like cr@p. It was just "wrong" and it felt like the chassis was twisting torsionally. I was mad as a hornet and determined right then to sell my car. Later that day I heard a rattle in the back window area. I took the car back and complained about the window making noise. They told me that the glass company (who I have dealt with many times and have never had trouble with) had a batch of bad window sealant and that every window they had completed that day didn't set up properly. Of course, no one had notified me. So I had them reinstall the rear window, and voila!!! The car drove just like new again. I had no idea the rear glass played such an important role in chassis stiffness. Matthew 98 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: cteague@cox.net [mailto:cteague@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:55 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:51:42 -0400 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Jim, I think Paul meant chassis stiffness. Anyway, the springs are the same, but supposedly the 4 door had a slightly higher torsional stiffness. Doesn't matter if you put a full cage inside of course. Some of the 4 doors, like mine, don't have the fold down seats. Instead, I have a nice welded in shear panel behind the rear seat which probably helps some also. Chris 97 M3/4 ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#3. Rear Swaybar Links - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:00:09 -0400 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Rear Swaybar Links Doe anyone have a convenient source for spherical joint adjustable rear link assemblies? Mine are old, corroded and nasty, so I'd like to replace them. The UUC type with greasable bushings won't work for me because they are intolerant of lateral misalignment. I'm looking for the type with a a pair of rod-ends, similar to what comes with RD bars. I suppose I could take the old ones off, measure them, try to figure out the corresponding Aurora P/N and order some replacements from Pegasus, but geez, isn't there an easier way? Neil 96 M3
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#4. Re: Something is probably not working right, huh? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:10:36 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Something is probably not working right, huh? > > From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> > on 5/29/06 11:45 PM, "Som Naderi" <som@dimensionracing.com> wrote > (snipping/editing by me): > > > - how much disparity can one expect between the oil temperature and the > > water temperature? > > Plenty. In fact there's not much numerical correlation at all. > > On the track oil will typically run hotter than coolant, in the 240-260F > range, whereas on the highway airflow past the oil pan may cool your oil > to > a significantly lower temp than the coolant. I was surprised to see that I was typically only seeing oil temps of 200-210 on my M3 at Mid-Ohio with the ambient temps approximately 90 Fahrenheit. Once the oil warmed up, the needle barely budged and I was checking the temp every lap. Got to love the difference the euro oil cooler set-up makes. Gerry and I missed you Neil. Regards, Rich
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#5. RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from cteague@cox.net
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 15:20:36 -0400 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Patrick, STU allows a strut brace. It can be upper OR lower. But it can only attach at a single point on each side (i.e., no triangulated braces). The X-Brace attaches in 2 points on each side. That's what makes it not legal (that, and the removal of update/backdate). Chris STU 97 M3/4 ---- "Goss wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:45:06 -0500 > From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question > > What no x-brace in STU, how much sense does that make? I know I am in > the dark about a lot of things, but how can a street tire class that > allows uppers prohibit lowers? I can't find any verbiage on this > exclusion... > > I am under the assumption that Paul doesn't intend to stay in the stock > class since he did comment he is upgrading sway-bars. What class allows > you to upgrade sways and not strut bars? Horsepucky! > > Bob, STU is the darkside. You come over obi-wan! > > Patrick > In the dark again. >
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#6. RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from Scott Stiles
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:21:33 -0700 From: "Scott Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question I always wondered what was behind the seat on a non-fold car. Can anyone comment on whether this panel can easily a) be sourced, and b) be welded into a fold-down-seat car? Seems like this would be *way* more effective at stiffening the car than a rear shock brace. Thanks, Scott. -----Original Message----- From: cteague@cox.net [mailto:cteague@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:55 AM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:51:42 -0400 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Jim, I think Paul meant chassis stiffness. Anyway, the springs are the same, but supposedly the 4 door had a slightly higher torsional stiffness. Doesn't matter if you put a full cage inside of course. Some of the 4 doors, like mine, don't have the fold down seats. Instead, I have a nice welded in shear panel behind the rear seat which probably helps some also. Chris 97 M3/4
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#7. Re: [E36M3] [OT] - My New M Roadster Pics - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 14:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] [OT] - My New M Roadster Pics On Sun, May 28, 2006 5:15 pm, Jamie Howton said: > Sorry about the cross-post and the OT, but I couldn't resist: > > http://jhowton.smugmug.com/Cars/191020 Beautiful car - great color. (Although the tan top & wood interior detracts a bit :-)) Jim Bassett - just jealous, that's all :-)
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#8. Re: New owner, swaybar question - from scrowl@austin.rr.com
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 16:50:31 -0500 From: scrowl@austin.rr.com Subject: Re: New owner, swaybar question SCCA Stock class allows front swaybar change, not rear and no braces. Steve > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 13:45:06 -0500 > From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question > > I am under the assumption that Paul doesn't intend to stay in the > stockclass since he did comment he is upgrading sway-bars. What > class allows > you to upgrade sways and not strut bars? Horsepucky! > > Bob, STU is the darkside. You come over obi-wan! > > Patrick > In the dark again. >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] [OT] - My New M Roadster Pics - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 17:19:22 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] [OT] - My New M Roadster Pics > Beautiful car - great color. > > (Although the tan top & wood interior detracts a bit :-)) > > Jim Bassett - just jealous, that's all :-) Man, you are about the tenth guy to say they didn't like the wood trim. I love it, but then again that's why I bought it... BTW, the car had its 1200 mile service this morning so it is officially out of the break-in period. Let the fun begin. Regards -- Jamie Howton 2006 M Roadster 2000 M5 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#10. RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from dhogg
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 18:24:32 -0400 From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question The X-brace fits the 4-door just fine, thank you. Dave Hogg '98 M3/4 '95 M3 IS #20 '05 BMW Club Racing Northeast Regional IS Champion