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#1. FW: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? - from Marco
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:55:16 -0700 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: FW: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? at speed at the track your fan isn't doing much besides windmilling. I don't have a mechanical fan and only run my electric fan while sitting on grid once the temp hits 180F, as soon as I'm on the track the fan is off. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? > > No, I have been running without a fan for almost a month now. I even ran > the car without the fan at Willow Springs 3 weeks ago -- no leaking problems > noticed. > You made it sound as though you drove the car home with several fan blades missing on the fan. This would be why your water pump is trashed, so which is it... fan or no. and even so, why no fan? tsk tsk. I don't know how good it is to give a car track duty without a radiator fan. Mine runs fairly often in this summer heat.
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Tire fun... - from Mark D
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 00:55:45 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Tire fun... On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 00:40 -0400, Alexander Fadeev wrote: > Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] wrote: > > > > [...] I ran over something... [...] rear passenger tire flat. > > [...] so I am the new owner of 2 new Yoko AVS100 (I think that's > > the model, nice looking tire), for the rears. > > Mark, > Don't let the looks deceive you. AVS100's tread does resemble Michelin Pilots. > Unfortunately, the looks is all they have in common with decent tires. > > I don't know how to put this other than to say that AVS100's were the _only_ > tires I had ever dismounted off my M3 and thrown away before they wore off. > They were _that_ bad. > > Slippery when new, unstable under braking, getting progressively (hideously) > noisy as they wore off ... and these are just the memories I did not > suppress... > > > Suddenly now the car behaves very strangely. If I brake > > lightly the car will pull strongly in one direction. If I > > let up and brake again it will pull strongly in the other > > direction. If I brake hard, the car tracks straight. The > > car seems to change from tracking straight and behaving > > perfectly to almost oscillating left and right. > > Did you put those two new tires on one side of the car? > Just the rears? > > > Since the spare was going flat when I got home > > I put the car up on the bmw jack for the night. It was not > > straight but up slightly higher on the jacked side. Maybe I > > destroyed a suspension component? > > No, the suspension is not THAT fragile. > > Do yourself a favor: buy $15 Wal-Mart 12V tire-inflator and throw it in the > trunk. I have a medium bulky model that fits perfectly into the plastic > battery tray and always stays there. > > > Suspects include tie rods, front tires, brakes maybe, ball joints... > > If the car moves under braking, I would take a close look at all rubber > bushings, particularly the RTABs. > > > Also there's front end vibration at 90mph now which is definitely new. > > I'm thinking it's likely I'll be putting my pirelli's back on > > the front and seeing how things are from there. > > I take it that the AVS100's are up-front now? > If so, the instability under braking may well be attributable to those POS > tires alone. > > HTH, > alex f What do you think of FM901's? That's what I've had and had real good luck with them. If I determine the problems are from these tires, I'll demand a refund. It's unacceptable to pay $150 for a tire and not get the kind of perfection you pay for. The FM901's treated me right forever, though people complained harshly about them on tirerack. That's what I'm thinking.. I screwed up the passenger side RTAB. The Pressure sitting in a different position than usual probably ripped it. As for the tire inflator, that isn't a bad idea. It's just that my stereo system weighs enough, so I try to keep excess weight down. I always figured if you needed a tire inflator, you have a hole and it won't help you anyway ;) The AVS100's are in the rear.... so if nothing else I can do an hour long burnout to wear them prematurely ;) ANY MORE VOTES AGAINST THESE TIRES? I still have a chance to get rid of them! Thanks, Mark
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Tire fun... - from Mark D
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 00:58:38 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Tire fun... On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 23:05 -0500, Mark D wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 23:56:31 -0400 > From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Tire fun... > > Hey guys, > > One problem after another. Climate control blew up (for the umpteenth > time), fixed that, then I finally shut my clutch pedal squeak up with > some liquidy lube from walmart and now this: > > I was driving to work yesterday and of course some **#hole decided to > merge into me forcing me into the shoulder a bit. Before I could make > it back out of the shoulder I hear "thump-thump". I ran over > something... The car was still tracking straight so I proceeded to > work. > > Get out of work at 3am to find rear passenger tire flat. I always do a > once around and right now glad I do, probably could have broken the rim > driving on it. Great. So I put the spare tire on and that was getting > seriously low by the time I got home from my 25 mile commute. > > Long story short the bolt that penetrated the tire was SO large that the > tire was unpatchable, so I am the new owner of 2 new Yoko AVS100 (I > think that's the model, nice looking tire), for the rears. > > Suddenly now the car behaves very strangely. If I brake lightly the car > will pull strongly in one direction. If I let up and brake again it > will pull strongly in the other direction. If I brake hard, the car > tracks straight. The car seems to change from tracking straight and > behaving perfectly to almost oscillating left and right. > Clarification below - the car has new control arm BUSHINGS. The control arms and ball joints are original. > The car has new control arms, I'm thinking possibly a bubble/air loss on > the front passenger tire which also hit the bolt, perhaps my tie rods > simultaneously went bad, or perhaps NTB screwed up the installation - > but I saw them hand torquing it - which shows at least some concern for > correctness. Since the spare was going flat when I got home I put the > car up on the bmw jack for the night. It was not straight but up > slightly higher on the jacked side. Maybe I destroyed a suspension > component? The car has recent control arm bushings that have been fine. > Suspects include tie rods, front tires, brakes maybe, ball joints... > Also there's front end vibration at 90mph now which is definitely new. > I'm thinking it's likely I'll be putting my pirelli's back on the front > and seeing how things are from there. > > So to recap, > Do these symptoms stand out to anyone? > and, check the pressure on your spare tire if you still carry one! > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#4. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Tire fun... - from Mark D
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 01:22:16 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Tire fun... On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 21:54 -0700, Marco wrote: > well some people say it doesn't matter running different tires front vs rear > but I'm not one of them. Especially on grooved highways you're going to get > some weird braking issues. > > If you can get all 4 tires of same make and type on the car then test it > out. If you still have the weird braking then start looking at the > suspension. > > Marco I was thinking maybe the RTABs were happy because the car never really stayed on the lift that long, but last night it stayed up all night in that stressed position. Maybe it ripped the passenger side RTAB. They do have 175,000 miles on them after all. It's worth a peek. I read that the AVS ES100 have a tendency to swim on grooved highways. This combined with the mismatch front an rear could cause it. I mixed Dunlop FM901 on front and Bridgestone Fuzion ZRI on the rear and it was absolutely excellent. The crappier bridgestones were harder and wore better, the soft FM901's had an iron grip on the front. Traction control took care of the rest. I'm tempted to buy another pair of AVS ES100 for the front, but not if it's going to cause it to dance even more. The one highway it was doing it on was not grooved concrete but rather asphalt. Thanks, Mark
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#5. Re: FW: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working - from Mark D
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 01:24:40 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: FW: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? Well that's what I mean. After he comes to a stop after running, a fan should probably be spinning to help cool down the head and manifolds. If the radiator is just THAT good I suppose you could get by with ambient wind. I'm not sure how much of a turbo oil choking effect is present in the cooling system of these cars. i.e. run a hard run and then just shut it off, rather than letting it idle a little... Bad idea? Thanks, Mark On Wed, 2006-05-31 at 00:05 -0500, Marco wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 21:55:16 -0700 > From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> > Subject: FW: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? > > > at speed at the track your fan isn't doing much besides windmilling. I > don't have a mechanical fan and only run my electric fan while sitting on > grid once the temp hits 180F, as soon as I'm on the track the fan is off. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 8:55 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, > huh? > > > > > > No, I have been running without a fan for almost a month now. I even ran > > the car without the fan at Willow Springs 3 weeks ago -- no leaking > problems > > noticed. > > > > You made it sound as though you drove the car home with several fan > blades missing on the fan. This would be why your water pump is > trashed, so which is it... fan or no. and even so, why no fan? tsk > tsk. I don't know how good it is to give a car track duty without a > radiator fan. Mine runs fairly often in this summer heat. > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? - from Som Naderi
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 22:32:26 -0700 From: "Som Naderi" <som@dimensionracing.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? >> >> From: "Som Naderi" som@dimensionracing.com >> >> >> >> A couple months ago, somehow, a few random blades broke off my fan. >> >> Don't know how. Not really thinking much of it, I unintentionally >> >> ran it lopsided for about a month >> > >> >That was really not a very smart thing to do, it would have been much >> >smarter to immediately remove it and run without it. First off, the >> >unbalanced assembly will ruin the water pump quickly and the remaining >> >blades could fly off breaking other items, hitting the radiator of >> >coolant hoses, denting the hood, whatever. >> >> Nothing really stood out as being damaged, but I'll look again. >> > >I haven't chimed in yet. Trashed water pump bearings won't stand out in >any way other than coolant leaking from the weep holes. Your water pump >is trashed. Heh... weird thing. I was reading Neil's response just before I wrote my response to Rich. That line was in response to this comment from Neil: "> A couple months ago, somehow, a few random blades broke off my fan. There's almost certainly a reason for that. Usually it's because the fan touched the radiator, often because of worn out motor mounts allowing the engine to move forward under heavy braking. Look for marks on the rear surface of your radiator where the blades hit." >> >> Saturday morning at Thunderhill I notice my car is leaking >water/coolant. >> >> Crap. Yes, yes, I should have done something at this point, but I >> >> didn't. >> >> > You ran at the track with a fan with blades missing? >> >> No, I have been running without a fan for almost a month now. I even ran >> the car without the fan at Willow Springs 3 weeks ago -- no leaking >problems >> noticed. >> > >You made it sound as though you drove the car home with several fan >blades missing on the fan. This would be why your water pump is >trashed, so which is it... fan or no. and even so, why no fan? tsk >tsk. I don't know how good it is to give a car track duty without a >radiator fan. Mine runs fairly often in this summer heat. > >If at some point you were running for any significant time with missing >fan blades, that's probably what caused your water pump to break... It >could be a delayed reaction type of deal. The heads will do that too >when you run them dry of coolant. You should be taking this more >seriously I think. It is a $6000 engine and all. I wrote that in the "pre story" section of my original message. Given that message was long (and apparently the formatting got screwed somehow), I can see why it was missed: "A couple months ago, somehow, a few random blades broke off my fan. Don't know how. Not really thinking much of it, I unintentionally ran it lopsided for about a month - til I noticed the increased engine shake during idle. So I pulled the fan. I'm running the Zionsville radiator (increased volume) so apparently it's not a big deal." To clarify: - couple months ago, fan blades break - month ago, removed fan -- also swapped out water temp sensor with one that supposedly results in the electric fan turning on sooner - a week or two later, run the car at Willow Springs -- temp never gets over 205 while on track... 215 or so while getting from track to paddock >> >> Sunday evening - my planned trip back down to San Diego. I fill up >> >> the reservoir. As I'm leaving the paddock, I'm noticing the leaking >> >> seems worse. Almost a steady (yet thin) stream. >> >> >> >> I figured I'd give it a go. Rationale: I suspected that, possibly, >> >> when the thermostat opened that the *flowing* water/coolant would >> >> actually be easier on the water pump seal. >> > >> > No, not really. >> >> Still not sure about this, though. I mean, the car did manage to go >about >> 400 miles before I really started losing too much water. Maybe a >> combination of flowing water *and* having *some* of the water leak out >> reduced the pressure on the seal? >> > >Losing too much? Common theme here is that any coolant loss results in >a screwed up head/head gasket replacement. 400 miles on a problematic >cooling system just CANNOT be good. While driving your cooling system >is running low pressure, especially if it's cool night air like in the >50's F or lower. It's possible that it wasn't leaking until you stopped >and the heat built up a bit. Rich seemed to mention the contrary. When I said "flowing water would be easier on the water pump seal" I meant that there would be less pressure pushing against the seal resulting in minimal leakage. He responded with "No, not really". Not sure if he disagrees with what I meant, or if he interpreted my statement differently... What you described at the end there is exactly why I thought I might be able to make it down. I was thinking that, at speed, there would be less pressure against the seal. >> >> I have an oil temp gauge. I figured I could keep a precise eye on the >> >> engine temp with this so if I noticed any temperatures out of the >> >> ordinary I could catch them quickly and pull over. >> >> > Nope, if the coolant isn't flowing (or is missing), areas of the head >> > and block can get extremely hot way before it might be reflected in >> > elevated oil temps. >> >> True... I guess I was anticipating that I wouldn't lose water that fast >and >> that I would see the oil temp start to rise. I had planned on giving up >if >> I saw temps get higher than 180 degrees Fahrenheit (since I've never had >> temps that high while at highway speeds). It never got past 175. >> > >But the head is ULTRA fragile :( I agree... but everything I'd ever heard was that people would get temperatures of 250+ at the track and whatnot. In my mind I thought I was being fairly conservative by giving myself 70+ degrees. In hindsight, I relied too heavily on the oil temp gauge. At the time, though, I thought "hey, people have gotten 250 degree readings at the track and I've never really seen anything over 180 degree while on the freeway before the water pump broke -- so if I call it quits after I see 180 degrees, I should be well in the safe zone." The whole time driving down my oil temp read exactly the same values I'd seen prior to the water pump leaking. So I kept thinking "well, maybe my theory about the water pressure being less at freeway speeds with the thermostat open was right." What triggered me to realize something might be wrong was when, after almost 500 miles or so, the water temp gauge started moving -- despite the oil temp gauge still reading the values I was expecting to see. My expectation was that if I was losing water that the cooling system would gradually become less efficient. I expected this gradual decrease in efficiency to result in a gradual increase in oil temperature. My intention was to stop my attempt at getting home at the point where I noticed this gradual increase (180 degrees). Again, in hindsight, I guess I shouldn't have relied on the oil temp gauge giving me any indication that the engine was running hot in that situation. However, that still really doesn't make sense to me either. Why shouldn't I be able to rely on the oil temp gauge to know when my engine is running too hot? Why, throughout all of this, did my oil temp gauge never break 175 degrees despite my water temp apparently reaching temperatures well over 250 degrees? I thought the whole point of the oil temp gauge was to get a more accurate reading on how hot the engine was running (even if the oil's temperature changes slower than the water's temp). I mean, I guess I feel a bit betrayed there. I mean, I know many are thinking that I was pretty dumb for trying what I did given the water pump issue, but for me the attempt was rooted in the faith I had that the oil temp gauge would be my end-all indication of a hot engine. If anything, I guess it was dumb of me to trust in that. Given that, though, I don't feel like it was particularly dumb to try to make it home. Oh well... live and learn, I guess. - Som
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? - from Mark D
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 02:00:56 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Something is probably not working right, huh? On Tue, 2006-05-30 at 22:32 -0700, Som Naderi wrote: > > I agree... but everything I'd ever heard was that people would get > temperatures of 250+ at the track and whatnot. In my mind I thought I was > being fairly conservative by giving myself 70+ degrees. In hindsight, I > relied too heavily on the oil temp gauge. At the time, though, I thought > "hey, people have gotten 250 degree readings at the track and I've never > really seen anything over 180 degree while on the freeway before the water > pump broke -- so if I call it quits after I see 180 degrees, I should be > well in the safe zone." > > The whole time driving down my oil temp read exactly the same values I'd > seen prior to the water pump leaking. So I kept thinking "well, maybe my > theory about the water pressure being less at freeway speeds with the > thermostat open was right." > > What triggered me to realize something might be wrong was when, after almost > 500 miles or so, the water temp gauge started moving -- despite the oil temp > gauge still reading the values I was expecting to see. My expectation was > that if I was losing water that the cooling system would gradually become > less efficient. I expected this gradual decrease in efficiency to result in > a gradual increase in oil temperature. My intention was to stop my attempt > at getting home at the point where I noticed this gradual increase (180 > degrees). > > Again, in hindsight, I guess I shouldn't have relied on the oil temp gauge > giving me any indication that the engine was running hot in that situation. > However, that still really doesn't make sense to me either. Why shouldn't I > be able to rely on the oil temp gauge to know when my engine is running too > hot? Why, throughout all of this, did my oil temp gauge never break 175 > degrees despite my water temp apparently reaching temperatures well over 250 > degrees? I thought the whole point of the oil temp gauge was to get a more > accurate reading on how hot the engine was running (even if the oil's > temperature changes slower than the water's temp). > > I mean, I guess I feel a bit betrayed there. I mean, I know many are > thinking that I was pretty dumb for trying what I did given the water pump > issue, but for me the attempt was rooted in the faith I had that the oil > temp gauge would be my end-all indication of a hot engine. If anything, I > guess it was dumb of me to trust in that. Given that, though, I don't feel > like it was particularly dumb to try to make it home. Oh well... live and > learn, I guess. I don't think anyone thinks you're dumb. Your theories are at first very reasonable sounding. They might think you are rich or brave, but I doubt dumb ;) Even if you screwed your head, you can probably shave it to make it true again and replace the head gasket for not a lot of money as long as the labor is done yourself. If you had a situation where the oil temperature was low and the coolant temperature is high, my theory would be the following... I'm not expert on the S52 internals or even engines in general so take this with a grain of salt, others can either back me up or trash me... The oil and the coolant serve two different purposes. The oil is going to be near all the moving parts and pretty far from the combustion chambers (except on the bottom end). The coolant on the other hand moves through channels VERY close to the combustion chambers AND through the head. If you have coolant loss, it's possible that one of these empty channels might have had some very very very serious localized heating which could cause head warpage. The problem is not necessarily one of running 200F or 250F, it's just a small area running at 1000F perhaps. That small area heating may not be enough to change the temperature of so many liters of oil, but it might be enough to cause some deformation of the head metal. Even if the oil does absorb some of this heat, it's likely to be less than the coolant can absorb as a matter of purpose. The coolant is designed to cool the engine, the oil to lubricate. Oil would make a decent coolant, but that's not the primary purpose here. The point everyone is trying to make is that it was a fool's mission to try to beat the M3's cooling system. There's no point in pointing fingers or anything now. Now you need to figure out if you have any problems as a result. Replace the water pump, pressure test the cooling system. Now pressure test it while the car is running. Does the pressure increase? Not good. Now do a compression test on the engine. Does it test ok? Now keep an eye on your oil for the infamous milkshake appearance. That's a sure sign of blown head gasket. If you escape without a head gasket problem, no harm no foul. The above is all theoretical. I'm NOT an expert, but this is based on the following. 1. More than a few people in this group report that if you lose coolant, sometimes any coolant, you're almost guaranteed to replace a head gasket. I lost coolant, my head is fine. I didn't lose very much coolant and had no temperature gauge movement... 2. My buddy's M5 died the warped head death almost immediately after a coolant loss without overheating. This is to suggest that if you lose enough coolant that your temperature gauge actually moves, you might have some very serious localized heating. Hopefully we can get some input from someone who is qualified ;) Thanks, Mark
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#8. Re: Tire fun... - from Adam Lazur
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Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 23:33:43 -0700 From: Adam Lazur <adam@lazur.org> Subject: Re: Tire fun... Mark D (mdlkml@atari-source.com) said: > Maybe it ripped the passenger side RTAB. They do have 175,000 miles on > them after all. 175k RTABs. Wow. If you sort this out without replacing the RTABs, do yourself a favor and replace the RTABs anyway. At 90k replacing the RTABs was a night and day difference on my car. -- Adam Lazur
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Tire fun... - from Paul L Fisher
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 06:08:38 -0500 From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Tire fun... Do you have two different brand/model tires on the car? That will make it rather squirrelly. Paul L Fisher 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red Elkhorn, WI. -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:05 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Tire fun... Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 23:56:31 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Tire fun... Hey guys, One problem after another. Climate control blew up (for the umpteenth time), fixed that, then I finally shut my clutch pedal squeak up with some liquidy lube from walmart and now this: I was driving to work yesterday and of course some **#hole decided to merge into me forcing me into the shoulder a bit. Before I could make it back out of the shoulder I hear "thump-thump". I ran over something... The car was still tracking straight so I proceeded to work. Get out of work at 3am to find rear passenger tire flat. I always do a once around and right now glad I do, probably could have broken the rim driving on it. Great. So I put the spare tire on and that was getting seriously low by the time I got home from my 25 mile commute. Long story short the bolt that penetrated the tire was SO large that the tire was unpatchable, so I am the new owner of 2 new Yoko AVS100 (I think that's the model, nice looking tire), for the rears. Suddenly now the car behaves very strangely. If I brake lightly the car will pull strongly in one direction. If I let up and brake again it will pull strongly in the other direction. If I brake hard, the car tracks straight. The car seems to change from tracking straight and behaving perfectly to almost oscillating left and right. The car has new control arms, I'm thinking possibly a bubble/air loss on the front passenger tire which also hit the bolt, perhaps my tie rods simultaneously went bad, or perhaps NTB screwed up the installation - but I saw them hand torquing it - which shows at least some concern for correctness. Since the spare was going flat when I got home I put the car up on the bmw jack for the night. It was not straight but up slightly higher on the jacked side. Maybe I destroyed a suspension component? The car has recent control arm bushings that have been fine. Suspects include tie rods, front tires, brakes maybe, ball joints... Also there's front end vibration at 90mph now which is definitely new. I'm thinking it's likely I'll be putting my pirelli's back on the front and seeing how things are from there. So to recap, Do these symptoms stand out to anyone? and, check the pressure on your spare tire if you still carry one! Thanks, Mark ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 5/29/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.7.4/351 - Release Date: 5/29/2006
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#10. RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question - from Goss, Patrick - PA
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Date: Wed, 31 May 2006 07:53:06 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Well then you guys haven't seen the mason rear strut bar! I have that one and love it. Actually molds into the strut housing. I think he is still selling them on ebay from time to time. I have the non-folding seats and from memory with the seat back/trunk lining out, it's simply just a panel spot welded in, so I am not sure if it really makes it more rigid or not, but 4 door feels faster than most, so maybe :) Right now I have a little rattling back there so I will probably be pulling things apart again... Patrick 97 M3/4 non-fold -----Original Message----- From: Chris Teague [mailto:cteague@cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 11:25 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 20:17:48 -0700 From: "Chris Teague" <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question Scott, The rear shock braces I've seen won't change the torsional stiffness of the chassis at all. The shear panel behind the rear seat will. But from what I've seen on my car (which has the panel), and others, I don't think it is an easy change at all. Now if you are building a race car, no big deal, since you can run tubes and stiffeners anywhere, and weld in what you need. Chris 97 M3/4 ----- Original Message ----- Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 12:21:33 -0700 From: "Scott Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] New owner, swaybar question I always wondered what was behind the seat on a non-fold car. Can anyone comment on whether this panel can easily a) be sourced, and b) be welded into a fold-down-seat car? Seems like this would be *way* more effective at stiffening the car than a rear shock brace. Thanks, Scott. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************