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#1. RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight - from Goss, Patrick - PA
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:11:29 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight With respect to oil change frequency, consider also the normal dirt buildup in the oil is being dispersed over a greater capacity (7 quarts) of oil vs. other motors, so as to assure a longer service interval. I for one don't feel bad going 4-5K miles between changes on this car, as opposed to my v-8 jeep which to my surprise only takes 5 quarts, so every 3K for it. Just another opinion to ponder. Patrick 97 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: MDR [mailto:mdrlist@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 3:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 12:47:21 -0700 From: MDR <mdrlist@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight On 6/5/06, kelvin <yoda@obikwan.com> wrote: > > > > Is 20w50 conventional ok? I am a "3k mile and change the oil" kind of > guy. So it's a lot cheaper with conventional vs. synthetic at 7quarts > per change! > > What weight is everyone running? Keep in mind, I live in the > SanFrancisco bay area, so it's never "freezing" here. I live in the bay area and use Mobil1 for my 95M3 with 120k miles. WRT change intervals, I follow the lights, which give me somewhere between 6k - 8k miles between changes. I change the oil filter 1/2 way between oil changes - every 3500 miles or so. Here is an overly detailed discussion of oil choice for your BMW: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=265292 I've been using 5w-30, but may switch based on this discussion. Murray ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. Synthetic vs Dino Oil - from jeffrey Lin
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT) From: jeffrey Lin <jeffreywlin@yahoo.com> Subject: Synthetic vs Dino Oil Back when the E36 M3 S50 US came out, BMW recommended 20W-50 pretty much as a summer oil. When I recall looking at the owners manual, 20W-50 was the oil of choice over 100F. I believe they were ok with 20w-50 down to 20F (or maybe it was 0F), I can't remember the lower temp recommendation for 20w-50 By comparison 10w-40 was rated for use up to 68F. There was footnote in the manual that said "special oils" were good for all climate ranges. I believe special meant synthetic. The Service Indicator Lights (SI) back then generally brought the car in for service every 10K miles. Given the 7 qt oil pan, 10K seems ok vs most other mfg's at 7500 miles with 5 qtr pans. Then in the late 90s, BMW shipped everything with "special" oil that is the 5w-40 oil. But now that oil is 5w-30 and drain intervals went to 15K. So bottom line is...on the dino juice, change it at least every 10K. With the synthetic 15K is fine. BTW, my 2005 X5 4.4 with 8.5 qtr pan is over 15.3K miles and still has a green light showing. Change it earlier if you get nervous. As regards to color of oil being dirty...all the particles that would be harmful should be in the filter or at the bottom of the pan. The color is usually a result of blow by gasses discoloring the oil. As regards to chaning the filter sooner, I don't think it's worth doing. BMW filters are HUGE, and as a filter gets clogged it should filter smaller particles out. Only when a filter is completely clogged and is bypassed to maintain oil flow would there be an issue.
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#3. Synthetic vs Dino Oil - from jeffrey Lin
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:17:38 -0700 (PDT) From: jeffrey Lin <jeffreywlin@yahoo.com> Subject: Synthetic vs Dino Oil Back when the E36 M3 S50 US came out, BMW recommended 20W-50 pretty much as a summer oil. When I recall looking at the owners manual, 20W-50 was the oil of choice over 100F. I believe they were ok with 20w-50 down to 20F (or maybe it was 0F), I can't remember the lower temp recommendation for 20w-50 By comparison 10w-40 was rated for use up to 68F. There was footnote in the manual that said "special oils" were good for all climate ranges. I believe special meant synthetic. The Service Indicator Lights (SI) back then generally brought the car in for service every 10K miles. Given the 7 qt oil pan, 10K seems ok vs most other mfg's at 7500 miles with 5 qtr pans. Then in the late 90s, BMW shipped everything with "special" oil that is the 5w-40 oil. But now that oil is 5w-30 and drain intervals went to 15K. So bottom line is...on the dino juice, change it at least every 10K. With the synthetic 15K is fine. BTW, my 2005 X5 4.4 with 8.5 qtr pan is over 15.3K miles and still has a green light showing. Change it earlier if you get nervous. As regards to color of oil being dirty...all the particles that would be harmful should be in the filter or at the bottom of the pan. The color is usually a result of blow by gasses discoloring the oil. As regards to chaning the filter sooner, I don't think it's worth doing. BMW filters are HUGE, and as a filter gets clogged it should filter smaller particles out. Only when a filter is completely clogged and is bypassed to maintain oil flow would there be an issue.
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#4. Re: '95 window keeps going up/down like opening/closing door along with - from Adam Lazur
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:23:02 -0700 From: Adam Lazur <adam@lazur.org> Subject: Re: '95 window keeps going up/down like opening/closing door along with Kelvin (yoda@obikwan.com) said: > One thing that I have noticed recently is that after you close the door, > the window will go "up and down" like you're opening and closing the > door. (how it goes up/down 1/4" because it's a frameless window). > Also, I've noticed that the dome light will turn on like the door is > opened as well. I was looking for a pin switch to see if that was > faulty, but I can't find one? (where the heck is it?!) And for sure I > know the car door is shut all the way. > > I did a search and found someone had mentioned something about a "door > handle sensor" and how he put a ziptie on it to fix the problem. Where > is this sensor? Is this the right track? Any insight/help would be > greatly appreciated. I'm afraid the dang power window motor will burn out! The sensor for this is on the striker on the door jam. You'll see a little black plastic switch on the inside. It wears down, and may need replacing (about $30 from the stealer IIRC). You can test if the worn switch is your problem by wrapping some tape around the striker. When I first bought my car it would occasionally turn on the dome light and play window games when I'd accelerate or decelerate. It was a fun little gremlin to track down :) -- Adam Lazur
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight - from Paul L Fisher
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:20:27 -0500 From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight Very true, however my VW diesel only holds 4.7 quarts. Paul L Fisher 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red Elkhorn, WI. -----Original Message----- From: Goss, Patrick - PA [mailto:Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 4:15 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 16:11:29 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - and discussion on weight With respect to oil change frequency, consider also the normal dirt buildup in the oil is being dispersed over a greater capacity (7 quarts) of oil vs. other motors, so as to assure a longer service interval. I for one don't feel bad going 4-5K miles between changes on this car, as opposed to my v-8 jeep which to my surprise only takes 5 quarts, so every 3K for it. Just another opinion to ponder. Patrick 97 M3/4 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/355 - Release Date: 6/2/2006
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#6. RE: '95 window keeps going up/down - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 14:28:17 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: '95 window keeps going up/down The switch is in the striker and the zip tie is to make up for wear on the catch rod of the striker I believe item #6 is found on the door frame http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF93&mospid=47486&btnr=41_ 0939&hg=41&fg=40 And I think the micro switch item #15 and/or #16 is found in the striker KLBurgess - ADHD 'pinch' feature - drivers door -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 13:54:22 -0700 From: Kelvin <yoda@obikwan.com> Subject: '95 window keeps going up/down like opening/closing door along with dome light Hi all, I'm still noticing odds and ends about my "new" E36. One thing that I have noticed recently is that after you close the door, the window will go "up and down" like you're opening and closing the door. (how it goes up/down 1/4" because it's a frameless window). Also, I've noticed that the dome light will turn on like the door is opened as well. I was looking for a pin switch to see if that was faulty, but I can't find one? (where the heck is it?!) And for sure I know the car door is shut all the way. I did a search and found someone had mentioned something about a "door handle sensor" and how he put a ziptie on it to fix the problem. Where is this sensor? Is this the right track? Any insight/help would be greatly appreciated. I'm afraid the dang power window motor will burn out! Also, the car has a factory alarm if that makes a difference. Thanks -kelvin PS: Thanks for all the insight on the oil. I think I maybe extending my change intervals based on tests/experiences of others.
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - from Don Eilenberger
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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 17:47:59 -0400 From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? At 05:04 PM 6/5/2006, you wrote: >As for changing the oil every 3k vs. lights, etc. I'm a 3k kind of >guy. =P My reason is this, we all agree that the oil doesn't breakdown >yet at 3k (synthetic or conventional). However, oil gets dirty >regardless of type of oil. That's why I change my oil at 3k. And yes, >I do run a clean/good air filter as well. =D I can definitely tell >that the oil is "dirtier" if I extend the change interval. Is this >scientific? Nope, but it's good peace of mind for me. > >Thanks! >-kelvin Out of lurkdom for a moment.. If you take your theory to the logical endpoint - what you're saying is you should change your oil whenever you start the engine, since that gets the oil dirty. That isn't scientific either, but it is the logical extension of your theory. That said - I have observed firsthand the difference between S54 (E46/M3) engines that changed by the lights or at half-light intervals. The inside deposits aren't awful on the by-the-lights engines, but they are a lot more visible. The valve clearances also seemed to need more adjustment on the by-the-lights engine. Just a few data points with a few E46/M3 owners who have done our own valve adjustments and swapped photos - but I suspect if you like a nice clean engine interior - you'll do just fine on 1/2 light intervals (on the E46/M3 this looks like about 6,500-7,000 mile changes.) I will be sending a sample for analysis next time I change. We all used exactly the same oil - the BMW required Castrol 10W-60 TWS synthetic, and we used stock filters. FWIW and YMMV and all that (back to lurking..)
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - from Kelvin
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Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 15:02:45 -0700 From: Kelvin <yoda@obikwan.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? It seems that I may have started something here. I apologize in advance to everyone. However, thus far this has been good and informative information. Don, changing it after you start your car is a bit extreme. =P You can however tell whenever you check your oil that the oil gets progressively dirtier. It seems that 3k changes might be "pre-mature" and that waiting for the lights to all go off might be "too late." It however seems that the consensus is somewhere in the middle of that. Personally, I will stick to the 3k changes, BUT will give it much more +/- of 1k miles on the change. I guess it'll depend on how I've driven the car for the past 3-4k miles. If it's just regular driving, then I'd say 4k is really reasonable. But if I tracked it, lots of city driving or flogged it a lot, then it's going to be 3k. -kelvin PS: I thought our cars had hydralic valves and didn't need to be adjusted? (or am I thinking of another car?) Don Eilenberger wrote: > Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2006 17:47:59 -0400 > From: Don Eilenberger <deilenberger@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? > > Out of lurkdom for a moment.. > > If you take your theory to the logical endpoint - what you're saying > is you should change your oil whenever you start the engine, since > that gets the oil dirty. That isn't scientific either, but it > is the logical extension of your theory. > > That said - I have observed firsthand the difference between > S54 (E46/M3) engines that changed by the lights or at half-light > intervals. > > The inside deposits aren't awful on the by-the-lights engines, > but they are a lot more visible. The valve clearances also seemed > to need more adjustment on the by-the-lights engine. Just a few > data points with a few E46/M3 owners who have done our own valve > adjustments and swapped photos - but I suspect if you like a > nice clean engine interior - you'll do just fine on 1/2 light > intervals (on the E46/M3 this looks like about 6,500-7,000 mile > changes.) > > I will be sending a sample for analysis next time I change. > We all used exactly the same oil - the BMW required > Castrol 10W-60 TWS synthetic, and we used stock filters. > > FWIW and YMMV and all that (back to lurking..) > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:09:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? On Mon, June 5, 2006 3:04 pm, Kelvin said: > You can > however tell whenever you check your oil that the oil gets progressively > dirtier. It seems that 3k changes might be "pre-mature" and that > waiting for the lights to all go off might be "too late." While that may or may not be true, the only sure way to know is to have your oil analyzed. Everything else is "hearsay" :-) > PS: I thought our cars had hydralic valves and didn't need to be > adjusted? Correct. > (or am I thinking of another car?) Well, Don was referring to the E46 M3 (S54 motor), which does have solid lifters. Jim Bassett
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2006 15:19:05 -0700 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetic Oil needed? On Jun 5, 2006, at 2:54 PM, Don Eilenberger wrote: > That said - I have observed firsthand the difference between > S54 (E46/M3) engines that changed by the lights or at half-light > intervals. > > The inside deposits aren't awful on the by-the-lights engines, > but they are a lot more visible. <http://www.justracing.com/bmw/viewtopic.php?t=22> Posted by a local BMW shop. - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar