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#1. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Gary
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:12:56 -0500 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! Also check the rubber gaskets on the tank where the pump goes in and sender unit on the driver side..they dry rot also. Gary (had gas smell) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:07 AM Subject: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:58:39 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Gas Smell! Kelvin - Remove the rear seat base, remove the circular access panels in the floor of the seat base. Below these openings is the fuel tank. The hoses to your fuel pump and fuel level sender are beginning to fail. Replace them. Others have reported loose clamps on these lines. KLBurgess -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 19:47:33 -0700 From: Kelvin <mpower@obikwan.com> Subject: gas smell! All, My '95 M3 has a very very strong fuel vapor odor. I filled up the car the other day and drove it 1mile to get it home. The next day I go into the garage and there's a VERY strong fuel vapor smell. I think maybe I don't have the cap on tight. Tighten it, smell doesn't go away. Today I put ClingWrap on the gas door hoping that maybe the gas cap is going bad. Nadda, still same problem. I just took the car out to Target. Drove with the windows down and no fuel smell inside the cabin. Parked the car, went inside. Came back out, and you could smell the fuel! This is outdoors mind you! So, anything I should look for or look at? One thing of note, is that prior to fueling the car up, I had taken the stock airbox out to take a look at how an intake system might be setup on the car. I don't believe I broke anything around that area. Is there a charcoal canister below the airbox? Any hints would be great! The vapors is driving me crazy, causing air pollution, and most importantly my gas is going up in thin air! =P Thanks! -kelvin ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. gas smell - from tim ng
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:32:37 -0400 From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> Subject: gas smell I have been filling my tank all the way to the lip every single time I fill up ever since I brought my M3 and I have never had any issue. I also do this to all my e30's also and never had any smells. I would look at the fuel filter connections too. I once had a very wet fuel line at the fuel filter conncetion. The hose at the filter deteroiated and I had to cut a portion off. Tim Ng BMWCCA # 36497 95 BUZZNM3 92 325ic M-Technic 91 M3 street car 88 M3/2.5 DM race car 87 325is D.E. car ------------------ project 90 535ia ------------------ Pace shadow 26 ft enclosed trailer my web page: http://groups.msn.com/M3stuff/pictures
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#3. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Kelvin
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 08:45:00 -0700 From: Kelvin <mpower@obikwan.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! Many have recommended checking under the back seat. I will do that this evening. However, the gas smell is coming from outside the car, NOT inside the car. I had my wife verify it this AM as her sense of smell is much better than mine. She did verify that the smell is not inside the car. Also, keep in mind that the smell is there even w/o the car being on (ie, no fuel pressure). This is with the car just parked in the garage. Anyone have some quick instructions on how to remove the rear seat? Does it just pop out? Or is there a couple of bolts holding it down? I was doing some searching online and some people have mentioned the filler neck area as well? Any ideas on where to look around there? Thanks! -kelvin "who's afraid to drive it now, but also afraid I'll blow up my house!" > > > >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Christopher Bauer
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:58:48 -0500 From: Christopher Bauer <chrisbauer@vzavenue.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but, check for gas leaks along the gas lines.. On my e30 there was a gas leak, but it only manifested when the car was running as the hole closed up when there was no pressure on the line. But, while the car was running, it was spitting gas on the concrete below, but, would evaporate after 10 minutes with an overpowering smell remaining Chris ---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:47:06 -0500 >From: Kelvin <mpower@obikwan.com> > >Many have recommended checking under the back seat. I will do that this >evening. However, the gas smell is coming from outside the car, NOT >inside the car. I had my wife verify it this AM as her sense of smell >is much better than mine. She did verify that the smell is not inside >the car. Also, keep in mind that the smell is there even w/o the car >being on (ie, no fuel pressure). This is with the car just parked in >the garage.
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#5. RE: Gas smell: inside vs. outside - from Skip Bogard
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:31:27 -0400 From: Skip Bogard <skipb@bellsouth.net> Subject: RE: Gas smell: inside vs. outside When you backed into your garage, if the top of the sender was full of gas...stopping might have made the gas slosh out and onto your garage floor....that would cause you to smell gas in the garage when the leak is really inside the car. When I learned of my sender leaking, I was at a BMW Driver's School. I was black flagged off the track, and the corner worker said I had gas leaking out on every turn at his corner.. The gas was running out as an intermittent stream on turns, and it was exiting from the bottom of the car...near the muffler.. Interestingly, I knew about the gas smell before the track event. I had my car serviced and tech inspected at my dealership, Leith BMW in Raleigh. The tech replaced a gasket, but not the sender itself. Since I had a 1/2 tank of gas when I took it in, it wasn't leaking out the top. When I filled up early the morning of the driving school event, I was losing gas only on turns. Billy Revis, owner of Motorsports Connections in WInston-Salem, NC pulled out my back seat, took off the cover, and found the broken nipple. He said he would have fixed it for me at the track, but there was no way to do it....the top of the white sender was cracked at the base of the hose nipple. Leith BMW had a great service manager (Ray Belom) at the time and I told him the story when I returned from Savannah. He said, "well, we missed it. I'm sorry...bring me your receipts and I'l reimburse you for your driving school cost, hotel, & mileage down there. A day later he gave me a big check for the whole amount. He also had a part ordered and gave me a loaner 328i for 3 days....gratis. Ray Belom has since then been promoted to be Service Mgr at the Mercedes shop for Leith. A great guy who looks out for his customers...he deserved the promotion big-time. Anyway...again: the gas can be on the outside...on your garage floor...but it came from the tank! And there aren't that many places that gas can escape from...but when it does it can end up in crazy places. You can't rule out the sender until you look. So...forget this inside/outside smell business...you're driving yourself whacko trying to solve the problem with this approach. - Skip
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#6. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas smell: inside vs. outside - from Kelvin
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 09:46:08 -0700 From: Kelvin <mpower@obikwan.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas smell: inside vs. outside Skip, Thanks for the tip. I'll take a look. underneath the backseat tonight. One thing however is the tank is full. I filled it up and drove home. Approximately 1 mile. The car has 3 miles total on it since I've filled up so it's still full for sure. (assuming my money isn't evaporating into thin air!!) I'm sure there's nothing on the garage floor. I've checked. Is there any fuel lines or anything like that under the stock airbox? I had fiddled with that during the weekend, and I want to make sure I didn't knock something out of whack around there either. -kelvin Skip Bogard wrote: > Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:31:27 -0400 > From: Skip Bogard <skipb@bellsouth.net> > Subject: RE: Gas smell: inside vs. outside > > When you backed into your garage, if the top of the sender > was full of gas...stopping might have made the gas slosh > out and onto your garage floor....that would cause you to smell > gas in the garage when the leak is really inside the car. > > When I learned of my sender leaking, I was at a BMW Driver's > School. I was black flagged off the track, and the corner > worker said I had gas leaking out on every turn at his corner.. > > The gas was running out as an intermittent stream on turns, and it was > exiting from the bottom of the car...near the muffler.. > > Interestingly, I knew about the gas smell before the track > event. I had my car serviced and tech inspected at my > dealership, Leith BMW in Raleigh. The tech replaced a > gasket, but not the sender itself. Since I had a 1/2 tank of > gas when I took it in, it wasn't leaking out the top. > > When I filled up early the morning of the driving school > event, I was losing gas only on turns. Billy Revis, owner > of Motorsports Connections in WInston-Salem, NC pulled > out my back seat, took off the cover, and found the broken > nipple. He said he would have fixed it for me at the track, > but there was no way to do it....the top of the white sender > was cracked at the base of the hose nipple. > > Leith BMW had a great service manager (Ray Belom) at the > time and I told him the story when I returned from Savannah. > > He said, "well, we missed it. I'm sorry...bring me your receipts > and I'l reimburse you for your driving school cost, hotel, & > mileage down there. A day later he gave me a big check for the > whole amount. He also had a part ordered and gave me a > loaner 328i for 3 days....gratis. > > Ray Belom has since then been promoted to be Service Mgr > at the Mercedes shop for Leith. A great guy who looks out > for his customers...he deserved the promotion big-time. > > Anyway...again: the gas can be on the outside...on your garage > floor...but it came from the tank! And there aren't that many > places that gas can escape from...but when it does it can > end up in crazy places. You can't rule out the sender until you > look. So...forget this inside/outside smell business...you're driving > yourself whacko trying to solve the problem with this approach. > > - Skip > > > >
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#7. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:11:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! On Thu, August 3, 2006 8:47 am, Kelvin said: > Anyone have some quick instructions on how to remove the rear seat? > Does it just pop out? Or is there a couple of bolts holding it down? It just pops out. Pop it loose at the front, then slide it out. Easy. > I was doing some searching online and some people have mentioned the > filler neck area as well? Any ideas on where to look around there? Not sure how much of it you can see either through the wheel well area or from underneath. Jack the car up (support it safely, of course), pull the rear wheel off and have a look :-) And, even though the smell is outside and not inside, still check, and even plan on replacing the rubber gaskets and hose clamps at the fuel pump/sender areas. These are known weak areas, so you might as well fix 'em. (BTW, if you are in the SF Bay Area, you're welcome to come over to work on the car - I'll supervise :-) BTDT, many times.) Also, I don't know what year M3 you have. On the '95s, the charcoal canister is near the intake side of the motor, so you MAY have knocked something during your intake work (doubt it though - I think it's a coincidence). Finally, when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter? Just thinking of another connection location, or faulty/failing part <shrug>. Good luck, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP - with re-attached exhaust, yay! :-)
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#8. overflow tank :( - from S Stiles
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:24:29 -0700 From: "S Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: overflow tank :( I did a coolant system refresh 6mos ago (radiator, thermostat, housing, hoses, etc.) and reused the overflow tank. Guess what, it appears to be leaking :) Question is: are there any shortcuts to this job? Can I replace the overflow tank without: - draining all of the coolant - removing the radiator - removing the fan - etc? ....and here I thought I'd be able to drive it through the summer without working on it... Thanks much, Scott Stiles.
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#9. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Brian Ruiz
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Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:35:52 -0700 From: "Brian Ruiz" <eurowerke@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! Kelvin, Yes, the seat bottom does just pop out, but the seat back is bolted in with two bolts and a clip that slides into slots in the rear trunk wall (you don't have to remove the seat backs). Straddle the tranny tunnel, put one hand near the center of each of the rear passenger footwells, and pull up sharply. It is merely a spring clip that pops over a horseshoe shaped piece of metal. The cover should be visible, if not, it is probably under a layer of sound deadening (I can't recall if there is sound deadening there or not). I want to note also that even though the car is off, there is still a decent amount of fuel pressure in the lines (which is why gas sprays out when changing fuel system components and pressure should be relieved). This helps to ensure quicker starts when the car has been sitting for a while, instead of cranking for too long a time. Also, it is correct that if it is the top of the tank sender/pump seals leaking, it is technically outside the car, but it is at the very top of the gas tank, and the top of the gas tank is accessed from inside the car. Because of this, oftentimes people are able to smell the gas fumes from inside the car. This happened to me in my old E36 325. Perhaps the seal between the pump cover inside the car and the sheetmetal is very good and you can't smell it inside the car (be happy about that). In any case, check it out. I only noticed gas fumes if I filled up the tank to full and made a few turns. You might want to fill up the tank, drive home, and pull out the seat quickly to see if you notice anything. In my old car, if the tank was lower and I checked, there was nothing to be seen but road dust and dirt. HTH, Brian build 8/95 On 8/3/06, Kelvin wrote: > Many have recommended checking under the back seat. I will do that this > evening. However, the gas smell is coming from outside the car, NOT > inside the car. I had my wife verify it this AM as her sense of smell > is much better than mine. She did verify that the smell is not inside > the car. Also, keep in mind that the smell is there even w/o the car > being on (ie, no fuel pressure). This is with the car just parked in > the garage. > > Anyone have some quick instructions on how to remove the rear seat? > Does it just pop out? Or is there a couple of bolts holding it down? >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! - from Kelvin
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Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:17:47 -0700 From: Kelvin <mpower@obikwan.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: Gas Smell! It's a '95 alright. I'm going to have to take the airbox out again and take a look see. As for the fuel filter, I'm not sure. The previous owner did an InspectionII on it a couple months prior to me buying the car. So, i'd ASSuME that it's been replaced rather recently. Thanks for the tips! -kelvin PS: I think it's time to drive with a fire extinguisher in the car! :-P Jim Bassett wrote: > On Thu, August 3, 2006 8:47 am, Kelvin said: > >> Anyone have some quick instructions on how to remove the rear seat? >> Does it just pop out? Or is there a couple of bolts holding it down? >> > > It just pops out. Pop it loose at the front, then slide it out. Easy. > > >> I was doing some searching online and some people have mentioned the >> filler neck area as well? Any ideas on where to look around there? >> > > Not sure how much of it you can see either through the wheel well area or > from underneath. Jack the car up (support it safely, of course), pull the > rear wheel off and have a look :-) > > And, even though the smell is outside and not inside, still check, and > even plan on replacing the rubber gaskets and hose clamps at the fuel > pump/sender areas. These are known weak areas, so you might as well fix > 'em. > > (BTW, if you are in the SF Bay Area, you're welcome to come over to work > on the car - I'll supervise :-) BTDT, many times.) > > Also, I don't know what year M3 you have. On the '95s, the charcoal > canister is near the intake side of the motor, so you MAY have knocked > something during your intake work (doubt it though - I think it's a > coincidence). > > Finally, when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter? Just > thinking of another connection location, or faulty/failing part <shrug>. > > Good luck, > Jim Bassett > 1998 M3/4 > 1993 325is #44 JP - with re-attached exhaust, yay! :-) > > > >