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#1. Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front tires...Thunderhill 9/15 - from Zack Steinkamp
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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Zack Steinkamp <thenobot@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front tires...Thunderhill 9/15 --- Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > Although, if you're toward the "novice" end of the student spectrum, > it > may not be all that bad. Work on being smooth (steering, braking, and > throttle application) and you can certainly lessen any chunking > issues. > > At least, that's what I recall. It's been while since I've used > street tires at the track. On a car that is mostly stock/streetable, the biggie for extending tire life will be to not fight understeer in the slow/long corners. Tell your instructor to watch for this in turns 2, 3, and 11, and help you correct if he/she sees signs of "plowing the fields". Cranking in more steering angle when you're in an understeering situation is the fastest way to wear the outer edge of the front tires. If you practice "slow in, fast out" and also unwind a bit and let off the gas a tiny bit if you get caught up in a plow, those tires will last many many trackdays. -zs
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:55:41 -0700 From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs I'd be curious to see that post. It seems to me that 15w50 would be too thick for my typical 50 degree morning startups here for all but a week or so of summer in the PNW. Next question, for those of you doing oil analysis, how are you drawing your sample? I've got a Griot's oil pump thingy which I change the oil with, works very well, but it seems that it would produce a contaminated sample at best. Gus On 9/6/06, Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > On Wed, September 6, 2006 12:25 pm, Gus Iverson said: > > Made the trip down to Thunderhill from Seattle a couple weekends ago. > > Changed the oil with Amsoil 5w40 Euro car formula just beforehand. Oil > > consumption in my car was radically reduced by the Amsoil - previously > > using Mobil 1 5w30 I would burn a quart of oil at a track day. With > > the Amsoil, I burned 1 quart over the whole trip. > > Both of those would tend to be too thin for track use. I have a post by > Bob Stommel at home from the early days of this list. Basically you want > 15W50 for track use. Period. > > (As always, you're free to do it your own way :-)) > > > Am I being excessive here? I'm rather convinced my car needs a change > > after the Thunderhill trip but I'm not sure about the rest. > > When I was tracking the M3, I would change the oil about every 4000-4500 > miles; basically twice as frequently as the SI lights. This was back when > I was at the track every other weekend. > > On the race car I change oil about every 3000-5000 miles. > > My 2 cents, > Jim Bassett > 1998 M3/4 > 1993 325is #44 JP > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:34:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On Thu, September 7, 2006 6:01 pm, Gus Iverson said: > I'd be curious to see that post. Here ya go: ------------- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:58:02 -0500 From: Bob Stommel Subject: [E36M3] Oil rules for M-cars Discussions of oil brands and weights is kind of like discussions of religion. Everyone has their favorite and it's usually gonna take a lot to change their minds. FWIW, here are my personal "oil rules for M-cars": Winter weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 10W30 (this is for street only and assumes you're not going to do any track events or autocrosses in the winter) Spring, summer and early fall weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 15W50 (again for street) For ANY track event: Mobil 1 15W50 -- that's right, just one. I won't bore everyone with all the reasons I no longer use Valvoline, BMW, Castrol, Redline, Amsoil, Purple People Eater, or any other oil on the track. The viscosity rating is simple -- anything thinner than 50-weight on the track is gonna turn into hamster piss after a few hot runs. Just compare any 40-weight oil at the end of a driver school session with Mobil 1 15W50 after a similar session and you'll see what I mean. And don't forget to add an extra quart of oil for any track or autocross event (total of 8 quarts). The E36 M3 oil pan will actually hold 9 quarts according to PTG, so the extra quart isn't gonna blow your engine seals, bunky. It WILL reduce the valve lifter noise though. Bimwad Bob 95 M3 LTW 88 M3 club racer (both currently in hibernation) ---------------------------- > Next question, for those of you doing oil analysis, how are you > drawing your sample? As Sir Isaac intended - gravity :-) I let a bit of it drain, then grab the sample. According to Blackstone, you don't necessarily want the first bit or the last bit, IIRC. Jim Bassett
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front tires...Thunderhill 9/15 - from dhogg
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:54:24 -0400 From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front tires...Thunderhill 9/15 These look fine to me. I'd say they have another week of DE time left in them! Dave Hogg
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#5. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Paul L Fisher
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:32:56 -0500 From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and why should I put more credence into his thoughts than anyone else? He himself said that an oil discussion is like a religious discussion. As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round and get it analyzed at every oil change and I change it only when the lights tell me to and it doesn't loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of fact, after 9,000 miles in my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it actually got a little closer to 50 weight on the high end. Paul L Fisher 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red Elkhorn, WI. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:42 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:34:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On Thu, September 7, 2006 6:01 pm, Gus Iverson said: > I'd be curious to see that post. Here ya go: ------------- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:58:02 -0500 From: Bob Stommel Subject: [E36M3] Oil rules for M-cars Discussions of oil brands and weights is kind of like discussions of religion. Everyone has their favorite and it's usually gonna take a lot to change their minds. FWIW, here are my personal "oil rules for M-cars": Winter weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 10W30 (this is for street only and assumes you're not going to do any track events or autocrosses in the winter) Spring, summer and early fall weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 15W50 (again for street) For ANY track event: Mobil 1 15W50 -- that's right, just one. I won't bore everyone with all the reasons I no longer use Valvoline, BMW, Castrol, Redline, Amsoil, Purple People Eater, or any other oil on the track. The viscosity rating is simple -- anything thinner than 50-weight on the track is gonna turn into hamster piss after a few hot runs. Just compare any 40-weight oil at the end of a driver school session with Mobil 1 15W50 after a similar session and you'll see what I mean. And don't forget to add an extra quart of oil for any track or autocross event (total of 8 quarts). The E36 M3 oil pan will actually hold 9 quarts according to PTG, so the extra quart isn't gonna blow your engine seals, bunky. It WILL reduce the valve lifter noise though. Bimwad Bob 95 M3 LTW 88 M3 club racer (both currently in hibernation) ---------------------------- > Next question, for those of you doing oil analysis, how are you > drawing your sample? As Sir Isaac intended - gravity :-) I let a bit of it drain, then grab the sample. According to Blackstone, you don't necessarily want the first bit or the last bit, IIRC. Jim Bassett -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
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#6. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:03:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On Fri, September 8, 2006 9:41 am, Paul L Fisher said: > I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and why should I put more > credence into his thoughts than anyone else? Long-time bimwad, club racer and instructor. And as partially evident in the post I forwarded, actually used various oil weights/brands on-track. > He himself said that an oil > discussion is like a religious discussion. Right, but his thoughts are very similar to what both of my mechanics recommend. Besides, his "hamster piss" comment is a classic, IMO :-) Besides, it was meant as a "guide", to be used or not, up to you. > As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round and get it analyzed at > every > oil change and I change it only when the lights tell me to and it doesn't > loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of fact, after 9,000 miles in > my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it actually got a little closer > to > 50 weight on the high end. Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were talking about here. With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more at a time, 6-10 times per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than 15W50. It's all about using the right tool for the job. You're right on the money with the 5W40 for street use (I'd modify Bob's rule, that if you only do 1 or 2 track events a year, you'd be OK). But for consistent (i.e. once a month) track use, go thicker. IMO, YMMV, PDCC, blahblahblah :-) Jim Bassett
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Paul L Fisher
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:17:36 -0500 From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs What's a bimwad? OK. So, he hasn't had his oil analyzed or torn down the engine. Track time on the 540, not the M. I guess my point is that unless you have some sort of scientific evidence, opinions are worthless. Paul L Fisher 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red Elkhorn, WI. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:03 PM To: Paul L Fisher Cc: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On Fri, September 8, 2006 9:41 am, Paul L Fisher said: > I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and why should I put more > credence into his thoughts than anyone else? Long-time bimwad, club racer and instructor. And as partially evident in the post I forwarded, actually used various oil weights/brands on-track. > He himself said that an oil > discussion is like a religious discussion. Right, but his thoughts are very similar to what both of my mechanics recommend. Besides, his "hamster piss" comment is a classic, IMO :-) Besides, it was meant as a "guide", to be used or not, up to you. > As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round and get it analyzed at > every > oil change and I change it only when the lights tell me to and it doesn't > loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of fact, after 9,000 miles in > my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it actually got a little closer > to > 50 weight on the high end. Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were talking about here. With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more at a time, 6-10 times per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than 15W50. It's all about using the right tool for the job. You're right on the money with the 5W40 for street use (I'd modify Bob's rule, that if you only do 1 or 2 track events a year, you'd be OK). But for consistent (i.e. once a month) track use, go thicker. IMO, YMMV, PDCC, blahblahblah :-) Jim Bassett -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Walter J
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:30:47 -0400 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Jim Bassett wrote: >Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were talking about here. >With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more at a time, 6-10 times >per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than 15W50. > I've always used Mobil 15w50 in my E30, 535 and both E36s ... because it was the closest full synthetic to the original 20w50 BMW recco from back when BMW had no stake in picking up the tab. Oh.. and you don't need to travel further than Walmart to find it by the gallon either. My M3 does 30+ track days every year on a single oil change and Blackstone says its fine when it comes out. I only bother to change it in November so its not sitting around in the engine dirty all winter. No reason to fix somethin' that ain't broke. Glad you all agree :) -- Walter
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On Fri, September 8, 2006 11:17 am, Paul L Fisher said: > What's a bimwad? A long-time, highly enthusiast member of the BMW community - you really are new here, aren't you? :-) > OK. So, he hasn't had his oil analyzed or torn down the engine. While not evident in the ONE post I forwarded, you can't say that with any certainty. Especially since you don't even know who Bob is. > Track time on the 540, not the M. How much track time? Like I said, if you do a few track events a year, you probably OK. But there's no way in hell I'd use anything less than 15W50 in the race car, which sees the track 1-2 times a month. > I guess my point is that unless you have some sort of scientific evidence, > opinions are worthless. More than opinions, Paul, empirical evidence. And what you are doing seems to work fine for you. Great! I was just trying to provide some more infomation on the subject. More info is better (at least I thought so). I am now sorry I re-posted that to the list at the request of Gus. This was supposed to simply be an exchange of information, not start an argument. Jim Bassett
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:41:04 -0700 From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Do you have documentation (not saying I don't believe you) regarding the original 20w50 specification? On 9/8/06, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:30:47 -0400 > From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > Jim Bassett wrote: > > >Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were talking about here. > >With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more at a time, 6-10 times > >per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than 15W50. > > > I've always used Mobil 15w50 in my E30, 535 and both E36s ... because > it was the closest full synthetic to the original 20w50 BMW recco from > back when BMW had no stake in picking up the tab. Oh.. and you don't > need to travel further than Walmart to find it by the gallon either. > > My M3 does 30+ track days every year on a single oil change and > Blackstone says its fine when it comes out. I only bother to change it > in November so its not sitting around in the engine dirty all winter. No > reason to fix somethin' that ain't broke. Glad you all agree :) > > -- > Walter > >