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#1. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:26:23 -0700 From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Interesting. How many changes are there between the mechanicals of the 95 3.0 S50 engine and the S52? Could tighter tolerances have lead to a lower weight specification as well? I'm just trying to figure all this out... On 9/8/06, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 17:20:55 -0400 > From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > Gus Iverson wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:41:04 -0700 > > From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > > > Do you have documentation (not saying I don't believe you) regarding > > the original 20w50 specification? > > > 88 E28 Owners Manual > 90 E30 Owners Manual > 95 E36 M3 Owners Manual > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#2. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Scott McClung
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs I was getting tired just watching you too bud!! At least an hour. Straight..... sheesh... You coming in Oct. btw? Scott Dave DeBuhr <debuhr@comcast.net> wrote: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:57:04 -0700 From: "Dave DeBuhr" Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs FWIW, I ran my last track day with Mobile 1 0W-40 and burned about 1/2 quart. Ran 180 miles on track including almost a full hour in the final open run group. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Synthetics - from Weston-Lewis, Graeme
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:34:14 -0600 From: "Weston-Lewis, Graeme" <GWESTON@lsil.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetics I think you'll find "Mobil 1" and "Mobil 1 Extended Performance" are fully synthetic. Their "Mobil Clean" line of products, while marketed as synthetics are actually synthetic/dyno blends. http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Oils.aspx Graeme -----Original Message----- From: Scott [mailto:stiles_s@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:22 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetics Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:12:41 -0700 From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetics Not all of it, IIRC. Once Castrol won the court case allowing them to call Syntec a "full synthetic", M1 has dumbed down some of their synthetics. IIRC some of them are dino-based, so you need to be super diligent about reading the specs the oils carry. Scott. -----Original Message----- From: Dave DeBuhr [mailto:debuhr@comcast.net] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:02 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetics Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:59:09 -0700 From: "Dave DeBuhr" <debuhr@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Synthetics Yeah mon. 100%. Dave -----Original Message----- From: M3 [mailto:m3@cueframe.us] Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 12:42 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Synthetics Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:34:22 -0500 From: M3 <m3@cueframe.us> Subject: Synthetics And, Mobile 1 is 100% synthetic? Bill Ft. Worth ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#4. Cleaning off my workbench - Parts FS - from Jonathan Vitolo
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Vitolo <jvitolo27@yahoo.com> Subject: Cleaning off my workbench - Parts FS E36 M3 gauge cluster, 82965 miles, works perfect - $175 E36 M3 mirrors, complete, just need paint - $275 (6) 21.5# injectors - $90 (6) OBD2 coilpacks - $100 Black nappa leather rear seat cushion, great condition $100 Black Nappa armrest, mint condtion - $100 E36 sunglass tray - $20 (4) TCKline VVT alloy springs: 300# fronts and 400# rears - $135 OBD2 fuel rail - $25 OBD2 intake manifold - make offer S52 throttle body and ASC - $50 Factory 6disc CD changer with cover and mag. - $175 Stock airbox - $35 S52 Motor mount arms - $20 Siemens ECU with Dinan software and CARB sticker - $300 --- E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> wrote: > ************************************************************** > E36M3 List - Forum for Discussion of E36M3 Series > Automobiles > ************************************************************** > BMWMPower on the Web: http://www.bmw-m.net > ************************************************************** > > This digest contains the following messages: > > 1. Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front > tires...Thunderhill 9/15 > by: Zack Steinkamp <thenobot@yahoo.com> > 2. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Gus Iverson <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > 3. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> > 4. Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front > tires...Thunderhill 9/15 > by: dhogg <dhogg@suscom.net> > 5. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Paul L Fisher <bmw@paul-fisher.com> > 6. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> > 7. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Paul L Fisher <bmw@paul-fisher.com> > 8. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > 9. RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> > 10. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > by: Gus Iverson <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > > -------------------- 1 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:36:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Zack Steinkamp <thenobot@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front > tires...Thunderhill 9/15 > > --- Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > > Although, if you're toward the "novice" end of the > student spectrum, > > it > > may not be all that bad. Work on being smooth > (steering, braking, and > > throttle application) and you can certainly lessen > any chunking > > issues. > > > > At least, that's what I recall. It's been while > since I've used > > street tires at the track. > > On a car that is mostly stock/streetable, the biggie > for extending tire > life will be to not fight understeer in the > slow/long corners. > > Tell your instructor to watch for this in turns 2, > 3, and 11, and help > you correct if he/she sees signs of "plowing the > fields". Cranking in > more steering angle when you're in an understeering > situation is the > fastest way to wear the outer edge of the front > tires. > > If you practice "slow in, fast out" and also unwind > a bit and let off > the gas a tiny bit if you get caught up in a plow, > those tires will > last many many trackdays. > > -zs > > > > -------------------- 2 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:55:41 -0700 > From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > I'd be curious to see that post. It seems to me that > 15w50 would be > too thick for my typical 50 degree morning startups > here for all but a > week or so of summer in the PNW. > > Next question, for those of you doing oil analysis, > how are you > drawing your sample? I've got a Griot's oil pump > thingy which I change > the oil with, works very well, but it seems that it > would produce a > contaminated sample at best. > > Gus > > On 9/6/06, Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > > On Wed, September 6, 2006 12:25 pm, Gus Iverson > said: > > > Made the trip down to Thunderhill from Seattle a > couple weekends ago. > > > Changed the oil with Amsoil 5w40 Euro car > formula just beforehand. Oil > > > consumption in my car was radically reduced by > the Amsoil - previously > > > using Mobil 1 5w30 I would burn a quart of oil > at a track day. With > > > the Amsoil, I burned 1 quart over the whole > trip. > > > > Both of those would tend to be too thin for track > use. I have a post by > > Bob Stommel at home from the early days of this > list. Basically you want > > 15W50 for track use. Period. > > > > (As always, you're free to do it your own way :-)) > > > > > Am I being excessive here? I'm rather convinced > my car needs a change > > > after the Thunderhill trip but I'm not sure > about the rest. > > > > When I was tracking the M3, I would change the oil > about every 4000-4500 > > miles; basically twice as frequently as the SI > lights. This was back when > > I was at the track every other weekend. > > > > On the race car I change oil about every 3000-5000 > miles. > > > > My 2 cents, > > Jim Bassett > > 1998 M3/4 > > 1993 325is #44 JP > > > > > > > > -------------------- 3 -------------------- > Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:34:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > On Thu, September 7, 2006 6:01 pm, Gus Iverson said: > > I'd be curious to see that post. > > Here ya go: > ------------- > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:58:02 -0500 > From: Bob Stommel > Subject: [E36M3] Oil rules for M-cars > > Discussions of oil brands and weights is kind of > like discussions of > religion. Everyone has their favorite and it's > usually gonna take a lot to > change their minds. > > FWIW, here are my personal "oil rules for M-cars": > > Winter weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 10W30 > (this is for street > only and assumes you're not going to do any track > events or autocrosses in > the winter) > > Spring, summer and early fall weather: BMW 5W40 > synthetic or Mobil 1 15W50 > (again for street) > > For ANY track event: Mobil 1 15W50 -- that's right, > just one. I won't > bore everyone with all the reasons I no longer use > Valvoline, BMW, Castrol, > Redline, Amsoil, Purple People Eater, or any other > oil on the track. The > viscosity rating is simple -- anything thinner than > 50-weight on the track > is gonna turn into hamster piss after a few hot > runs. Just compare any > 40-weight oil at the end of a driver school session > with Mobil 1 15W50 > after a similar session and you'll see what I mean. > > And don't forget to add an extra quart of oil for > any track or autocross > event (total of 8 quarts). The E36 M3 oil pan will > actually hold 9 quarts > according to PTG, so the extra quart isn't gonna > blow your engine seals, > bunky. It WILL reduce the valve lifter noise > though. > > Bimwad Bob > 95 M3 LTW > 88 M3 club racer > (both currently in hibernation) > ---------------------------- > > > Next question, for those of you doing oil > analysis, how are you > > drawing your sample? > > As Sir Isaac intended - gravity :-) I let a bit of > it drain, then grab the > sample. According to Blackstone, you don't > necessarily want the first bit > or the last bit, IIRC. > > Jim Bassett > > > > > -------------------- 4 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:54:24 -0400 > From: "dhogg" <dhogg@suscom.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Pictures of my front > tires...Thunderhill 9/15 > > These look fine to me. I'd say they have another > week of DE time left in > them! > > > > Dave Hogg > > > > > -------------------- 5 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:32:56 -0500 > From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and > why should I put more > credence into his thoughts than anyone else? He > himself said that an oil > discussion is like a religious discussion. > > As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round and > get it analyzed at every > oil change and I change it only when the lights tell > me to and it doesn't > loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of > fact, after 9,000 miles in > my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it > actually got a little closer to > 50 weight on the high end. > > Paul L Fisher > > 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic > 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic > 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red > > Elkhorn, WI. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 10:42 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:34:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > On Thu, September 7, 2006 6:01 pm, Gus Iverson said: > > I'd be curious to see that post. > > Here ya go: > ------------- > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 13:58:02 -0500 > From: Bob Stommel > Subject: [E36M3] Oil rules for M-cars > > Discussions of oil brands and weights is kind of > like discussions of > religion. Everyone has their favorite and it's > usually gonna take a lot to > change their minds. > > FWIW, here are my personal "oil rules for M-cars": > > Winter weather: BMW 5W40 synthetic or Mobil 1 10W30 > (this is for street > only and assumes you're not going to do any track > events or autocrosses in > the winter) > > Spring, summer and early fall weather: BMW 5W40 > synthetic or Mobil 1 15W50 > (again for street) > > For ANY track event: Mobil 1 15W50 -- that's right, > just one. I won't > bore everyone with all the reasons I no longer use > Valvoline, BMW, Castrol, > Redline, Amsoil, Purple People Eater, or any other > oil on the track. The > viscosity rating is simple -- anything thinner than > 50-weight on the track > is gonna turn into hamster piss after a few hot > runs. Just compare any > 40-weight oil at the end of a driver school session > with Mobil 1 15W50 > after a similar session and you'll see what I mean. > > And don't forget to add an extra quart of oil for > any track or autocross > event (total of 8 quarts). The E36 M3 oil pan will > actually hold 9 quarts > according to PTG, so the extra quart isn't gonna > blow your engine seals, > bunky. It WILL reduce the valve lifter noise > though. > > Bimwad Bob > 95 M3 LTW > 88 M3 club racer > (both currently in hibernation) > ---------------------------- > > > Next question, for those of you doing oil > analysis, how are you > > drawing your sample? > > As Sir Isaac intended - gravity :-) I let a bit of > it drain, then grab the > sample. According to Blackstone, you don't > necessarily want the first bit > or the last bit, IIRC. > > Jim Bassett > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release Date: 9/8/2006 > > > > > > -------------------- 6 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:03:25 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > On Fri, September 8, 2006 9:41 am, Paul L Fisher > said: > > I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and > why should I put more > > credence into his thoughts than anyone else? > > Long-time bimwad, club racer and instructor. And as > partially evident in > the post I forwarded, actually used various oil > weights/brands on-track. > > > He himself said that an oil > > discussion is like a religious discussion. > > Right, but his thoughts are very similar to what > both of my mechanics > recommend. Besides, his "hamster piss" comment is a > classic, IMO :-) > > Besides, it was meant as a "guide", to be used or > not, up to you. > > > As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round > and get it analyzed at > > every > > oil change and I change it only when the lights > tell me to and it doesn't > > loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of > fact, after 9,000 miles in > > my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it > actually got a little closer > > to > > 50 weight on the high end. > > Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were > talking about here. > With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more > at a time, 6-10 times > per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than > 15W50. It's all about using > the right tool for the job. You're right on the > money with the 5W40 for > street use (I'd modify Bob's rule, that if you only > do 1 or 2 track events > a year, you'd be OK). But for consistent (i.e. once > a month) track use, go > thicker. > > IMO, YMMV, PDCC, blahblahblah :-) > > Jim Bassett > > > > > -------------------- 7 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:17:36 -0500 > From: "Paul L Fisher" <bmw@paul-fisher.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > What's a bimwad? > > OK. So, he hasn't had his oil analyzed or torn down > the engine. > > Track time on the 540, not the M. > > I guess my point is that unless you have some sort > of scientific evidence, > opinions are worthless. > > Paul L Fisher > > 2000 540i 6 E39 M62 TU Titanium Silver Metallic > 2000 M Roadster E36/7 S52 Cosmos Black Metallic > 1989 325ix E30 M20 Cinnabar Red > > Elkhorn, WI. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Bassett [mailto:jim@jimbassett.com] > Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 1:03 PM > To: Paul L Fisher > Cc: E36M3 > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > On Fri, September 8, 2006 9:41 am, Paul L Fisher > said: > > I'm relatively new around here but who is Bob and > why should I put more > > credence into his thoughts than anyone else? > > Long-time bimwad, club racer and instructor. And as > partially evident in > the post I forwarded, actually used various oil > weights/brands on-track. > > > He himself said that an oil > > discussion is like a religious discussion. > > Right, but his thoughts are very similar to what > both of my mechanics > recommend. Besides, his "hamster piss" comment is a > classic, IMO :-) > > Besides, it was meant as a "guide", to be used or > not, up to you. > > > As I've said, I've used Amsoil 5W-40 year round > and get it analyzed at > > every > > oil change and I change it only when the lights > tell me to and it doesn't > > loose viscosity, doesn't oxydize. As a mater of > fact, after 9,000 miles in > > my M Roadster and 15,000 miles in my 540, it > actually got a little closer > > to > > 50 weight on the high end. > > Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were > talking about here. > With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or more > at a time, 6-10 times > per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than > 15W50. It's all about using > the right tool for the job. You're right on the > money with the 5W40 for > street use (I'd modify Bob's rule, that if you only > do 1 or 2 track events > a year, you'd be OK). But for consistent (i.e. once > a month) track use, go > thicker. > > IMO, YMMV, PDCC, blahblahblah :-) > > Jim Bassett > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - > Release Date: 9/8/2006 > > > > > > -------------------- 8 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:30:47 -0400 > From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > Jim Bassett wrote: > > >Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what were > talking about here. > >With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or > more at a time, 6-10 times > >per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than > 15W50. > > > I've always used Mobil 15w50 in my E30, 535 and both > E36s ... because > it was the closest full synthetic to the original > 20w50 BMW recco from > back when BMW had no stake in picking up the tab. > Oh.. and you don't > need to travel further than Walmart to find it by > the gallon either. > > My M3 does 30+ track days every year on a single oil > change and > Blackstone says its fine when it comes out. I only > bother to change it > in November so its not sitting around in the engine > dirty all winter. No > reason to fix somethin' that ain't broke. Glad you > all agree :) > > -- > Walter > > > > -------------------- 9 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:33:06 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > On Fri, September 8, 2006 11:17 am, Paul L Fisher > said: > > What's a bimwad? > > A long-time, highly enthusiast member of the BMW > community - you really > are new here, aren't you? :-) > > > OK. So, he hasn't had his oil analyzed or torn > down the engine. > > While not evident in the ONE post I forwarded, you > can't say that with any > certainty. Especially since you don't even know who > Bob is. > > > Track time on the 540, not the M. > > How much track time? Like I said, if you do a few > track events a year, you > probably OK. But there's no way in hell I'd use > anything less than 15W50 > in the race car, which sees the track 1-2 times a > month. > > > I guess my point is that unless you have some sort > of scientific evidence, > > opinions are worthless. > > More than opinions, Paul, empirical evidence. > > And what you are doing seems to work fine for you. > Great! I was just > trying to provide some more infomation on the > subject. More info is better > (at least I thought so). > > I am now sorry I re-posted that to the list at the > request of Gus. This > was supposed to simply be an exchange of > information, not start an > argument. > > Jim Bassett > > > > > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:41:04 -0700 > From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > Do you have documentation (not saying I don't > believe you) regarding > the original 20w50 specification? > > On 9/8/06, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > > Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 14:30:47 -0400 > > From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > > > Jim Bassett wrote: > > > > >Any track time on that oil? 'Cause that's what > were talking about here. > > >With track oil temps at ~250F for 30 minutes or > more at a time, 6-10 times > > >per weekend, I wouldn't use anything less than > 15W50. > > > > > I've always used Mobil 15w50 in my E30, 535 and > both E36s ... because > > it was the closest full synthetic to the original > 20w50 BMW recco from > > back when BMW had no stake in picking up the tab. > Oh.. and you don't > > need to travel further than Walmart to find it by > the gallon either. > > > > My M3 does 30+ track days every year on a single > oil change and > > Blackstone says its fine when it comes out. I only > bother to change it > > in November so its not sitting around in the > engine dirty all winter. No > > reason to fix somethin' that ain't broke. Glad you > all agree :) > > > > -- > > Walter > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance > http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. > http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Synthetics - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:11:56 -0700 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Synthetics I personally think all the modern synthetic oils are good enough, but I started using Lubro Moly Voll-Synthese in the M3 (5W40) and have been very pleased with it. The noisy lifters are a little quieter and I seem to get slightly lower oil consumption with it when compared to M1 or Royal Purple. Plus...I dig the big 5L bottles ;-) Dave
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#6. Oil changes and HPDEs - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 21:03:03 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Oil changes and HPDEs From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> > Gus Iverson wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:41:04 -0700 > > From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs > > > > Do you have documentation (not saying I don't believe you) regarding > > the original 20w50 specification? > > > 88 E28 Owners Manual > 90 E30 Owners Manual > 95 E36 M3 Owners Manual Well, it you are relying on the specifications in the owner's manual which was specified by BMW, you also should know that BMW now specifies BMW 5W30 for all of those cars (along with 5W20, 10W30, 5W40, 10W40, and 15W40). :-) Oil has changed a lot since those specifications were written. You can take owner's manual specifications along with BMW's current specifications with a grain of salt. Regards, Rich
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Walter J
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:01:22 -0400 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Rich Dorffer wrote: >Oil has changed a lot since those specifications were written. You can take >owner's manual specifications along with BMW's current specifications with a >grain of salt. > >Regards, > >Rich > ....as well as random internet personalities. The engineers at the time the engine was built with all its clearances delicately planned for thought that 50w was correct... I'm pretty sure that a bearing clearance designed for a 50w lubricant is going to have some adversity to 20w sewing machine oil pissing thru there like water no matter how goddamn good it resists sheering or heat. Viscosity is viscosity. My Blackstone Labs printout says that after 30k track miles the 15w50 and the motor are looking pretty good... so given actual supporting evidence to at least say I'm doing no harm - I'm not about to change now. BTW, not to flame but "I put xxx oil in and I'm satisfied with it" is the silliest thing I've ever heard. Its like saying "Wow that was the best flu vaccine I've ever had!" How in the hell can you feel your oil "performing"? You send it to a lab and look at the results to see if it maintains viscosity and sheer force and to see if half your bearings are suspended in it. Oh... and yeah... 20w oil will allow your dyno sheet to look a little better... just like running with no air filter would. Neither is a great long term strategy. -- Walter
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Walter J
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:01:55 -0400 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Walter J wrote: > Rich Dorffer wrote: > >> Oil has changed a lot since those specifications were written. You >> can take >> owner's manual specifications along with BMW's current specifications >> with a >> grain of salt. >> >> Regards, >> >> Rich >> > > ...as well as random internet personalities. The engineers at the time > the engine was built with all its clearances delicately planned for > thought that 50w was correct... I'm pretty sure that a bearing > clearance designed for a 50w lubricant is going to have some adversity > to 20w sewing machine oil pissing thru there like water no matter how > goddamn good it resists sheering or heat. Viscosity is viscosity. My > Blackstone Labs printout says that after 30k track miles the 15w50 and > the motor are looking pretty good... so given actual supporting > evidence to at least say I'm doing no harm - I'm not about to change now. > > BTW, not to flame but "I put xxx oil in and I'm satisfied with it" is > the silliest thing I've ever heard. Its like saying "Wow that was the > best flu vaccine I've ever had!" How in the hell can you feel your oil > "performing"? You send it to a lab and look at the results to see if > it maintains viscosity and sheer force and to see if half your > bearings are suspended in it. Oh... and yeah... 20w oil will allow > your dyno sheet to look a little better... just like running with no > air filter would. Neither is a great long term strategy. > > -- > Walter >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 22:32:56 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs On 9/8/06, Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> wrote: > > Rich Dorffer wrote: > > >Oil has changed a lot since those specifications were written. You can > take > >owner's manual specifications along with BMW's current specifications > with a > >grain of salt. > > ...as well as random internet personalities. Is that a personal jab? My point was, your only comment originally supporting the use of 15W50 was the "Owners Manuals" for your three various cars. You didn't mention any testing you had performed, etc. If you put so much faith in BMW's original recommendations, do you put the same amount of faith in their updated current recommendations for those same exact vehicles? The engineers at the time > the engine was built with all its clearances delicately planned for > thought that 50w was correct... I'm pretty sure that a bearing clearance > designed for a 50w lubricant is going to have some adversity to 20w > sewing machine oil pissing thru there like water no matter how goddamn > good it resists sheering or heat. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, do you have any proof that 20W can't perform? Me personally, I wouldn't be using 5W20 in any of the vehicles you noted but I am not going to tout it either. I do know there are other weights and oils out there other than 15W50 that perform* as well or better in my E36 M3 (and my other BMWs). * - defined as lasting longer, staying within their viscosity and reducing wear and/or providing better value. Viscosity is viscosity. True, and not all viscosity is created equal nor does it necessarily stay the same throughout the oil's life. My Blackstone > Labs printout says that after 30k track miles the 15w50 and the motor > are looking pretty good... so given actual supporting evidence to at > least say I'm doing no harm - I'm not about to change now. I might not either, but that doesn't mean there aren't equal or better choices out there in different grades. BTW, not to flame but "I put xxx oil in and I'm satisfied with it" is > the silliest thing I've ever heard. Its like saying "Wow that was the > best flu vaccine I've ever had!" How in the hell can you feel your oil > "performing"? You send it to a lab and look at the results to see if it > maintains viscosity and sheer force and to see if half your bearings are > suspended in it. Oh... and yeah... 20w oil will allow your dyno sheet to > look a little better... just like running with no air filter would. > Neither is a great long term strategy. Yeah, I have lab results for various choices I use as well and have compared my results to many other peoples results. As you might have noticed when I commented about Mobil 1 EP 15W50 in this thread "M1 EP 15W50 is a nice synthetic but I don't know much about it." is because I have never personally used it nor have I personally tested it and the tests I have seen on it are fairly limited. People run K&N air filters too, not all of us agree with the use of those either (with substantial proof to back up our beliefs). YMMV, YOMV, whatever. Regards, Rich - uses Group IV and V based synthetics in various grades.
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs - from Walter J
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Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2006 22:55:42 -0400 From: Walter J <m3gtr@adelphia.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Oil changes and HPDEs Rich Dorffer wrote: > >Is that a personal jab? > Nah... I just find a little humor in people telling me to disregard the recco of the engineer who designed the bearing clearance in favor of thier opinion. My doctor told me I need the insulin. Hogwash! You need a candy bar. Are you a doctor? No but I did sleep at a holiday inn last night.