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#1. Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit - from Lawrence Barbieri
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:03:23 -0700 From: Lawrence Barbieri <larry@logicalconclusions.com> Subject: Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit My personal reason is getting a firmer pedal. These days as soon as the brakes get hot the pedal starts to depress more and more. This causes me to contort my foot to be able to heel/toe properly and as a result there are always a couple of missed blips during a session. No matter how much I bleed or flush the brakes it doesn't seem to help. Now, maybe there's something else wrong in my brake system, but I don't know what it could be. Pedal is always very firm at the start of a session. If I could get my pedal to behave with the stock brakes I'd be happy and I too could find other places to put a couple of grand. --- Larry > -------------------- 10 -------------------- > Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:25:24 -0500 > From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RE: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit > >> I've been running stock brakes with race pads for years in Club Racing. And >> running up front. Maybe my lap times would improve with a big brake kit but >> I'm not convinced. > > Personally I agree with Marco. I run stock rotors (Euro floaters in > the front) and calipers with Hawk HT-10 or HT-14s and have had no > problem on track with the stock brake ducting. I have a hard time > imagining what you gain with bigger brakes because I am able to engage > ABS without an issue now, even running Hoosier R6s. The stock brake > calipers do need rebuilding annually because the dust boots dry out > and crack, so maybe that is the real benefit of "big brakes" on the > track. > > -- > Jamie Howton > 2006 M Roadster > 2000 M5 > 1995 M3 > Hampshire, IL >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit - from cteague@cox.net
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:09:11 -0400 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit One comment on the advantages of the UUC kit. A friend has the 4 wheel set on his 95 M3 used for AutoX. We don't need any extra braking over stock for AutoX use (just good pads), but the UUC kit is over 8 lbs lighter per wheel (at least in front). That's unsprung weight, and that does help the car. It's probably not the first mod I'd make, but when you have done all the basics, and are looking for more, it's hard to argue with less unsprung weight. Chris
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#3. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RE: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:12:08 -0700 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RE: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit On Oct 3, 2006, at 11:26 AM, Jamie Howton wrote: >> I've been running stock brakes with race pads for years in Club >> Racing. And >> running up front. Maybe my lap times would improve with a big >> brake kit but >> I'm not convinced. > > Personally I agree with Marco. I run stock rotors (Euro floaters in > the front) and calipers with Hawk HT-10 or HT-14s and have had no > problem on track with the stock brake ducting. I have a hard time > imagining what you gain with bigger brakes because I am able to engage > ABS without an issue now, even running Hoosier R6s. The stock brake > calipers do need rebuilding annually because the dust boots dry out > and crack, so maybe that is the real benefit of "big brakes" on the > track. I'm in on this one, too. Stock brakes, ducting, and HT-10s on the race car. Plenty of braking and no ABS. While I'm at it, I'd like to thank the people who responded to my occasional rants about how much I hated the HT-10s and their non- linear performance. Based on that feedback, I came to the conclusion that I was over-cooling them. So I replaced the Blues with a set of HT-10s a month ago, almost completely taped my ducts closed, and then raced at Infineon and Laguna Seca. Properly cooled, they are AMAZING pads. So THANKS to everyone, especially James Clay, for the help. - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar
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#4. Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:32:42 -0400 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit on 10/3/06 2:36 PM, "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> wrote: > > I've been running stock brakes with race pads for years in Club Racing. And > running up front. Maybe my lap times would improve with a big brake kit but > I'm not convinced. on 10/3/06 2:36 PM, "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> wrote: > Personally I agree with Marco. I run stock rotors (Euro floaters in > the front) and calipers with Hawk HT-10 or HT-14s and have had no > problem on track with the stock brake ducting. I have a hard time > imagining what you gain with bigger brakes because I am able to engage > ABS without an issue now, even running Hoosier R6s. Ooh! Ooh! We haven't had a good BBK flame war on the Digest for ages. <vbg> My opinions aren't any better than anyone else's, but since I put my StopTechs on only just after the beginning of this season, at least my recollections are fresh. I've driven with them at Road America (very fast), Putnam Park (technical), Gingerman (technical), Mid Ohio (fast and technical) and Grattan (wild and crazy). My car is an M3 with full interior, rollbar and the usual money pit of never-add-it-all-up go faster bits. So it's an M3 HWT track car. First let's face it, stock M3 brakes are excellent for the street and pretty decent on track with the right pad compound. Ducted backing plates make a big difference too. However track use includes running them way hotter than the engineers intended, and paying a price in terms of maintenance and longevity. Jamie runs pretty much the same setup I had, except mine are fully ducted. Although you may be able to engage the ABS at will, I'll guarantee you that a fixed caliper BBK would allow you do do so with better feel (more about that later), improved consistency and a greater margin for error. That translates either to better braking performance, or your needing to apply less talent to handling the braking chores and potentially applying that talent to other aspects of your driving, or some combination of those things. Oddly enough, I think the logic of a BBK in racing isn't always what one might think. Other than in CR stock class, an E36 racecar is going to weigh several hundred pounds less than the street version. This, as Marco pointed out, is effectively a brake upgrade already. Furthermore, with a full race suspension you're going into and through the corners faster and therefore need to brake less. That said, don't you think that you'd have to pry the Turner or Bimmerworld racecar ST's out of their drivers' cold dead hands? And I see that UUC is already starting to show multiple race wins with its UUC/Wilwood BBK. My final point concerns accurate brake feel, an area where the M3 design clearly falls short. The single piston sliding caliper is like a talking dog, where the surprise lies not in whether the dog does it well, but that it can manage it at all. These calipers are cost effective to manufacture, but in use they flex, squirm and bind. My ST's are very much better in that respect, and I'm going to assume that the same would apply to calipers of similar concept from Wilwood, Brembo and other quality manufacturers. Depending on one's budget and priorities a BBK may be high or low on the To Do list, I've found the benefits to be real. Neil 96 M3
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#5. Brake(s) "clicking" - from Scott
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:55:07 -0700 From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: Brake(s) "clicking" All this brake talk got me thinking. I recently did pads+rotors+wheelbearings in the front of my M3. I'm hearing a pronounced "click" when "changing braking directions". In other words: - reverse, and hit the brakes to slow/stop - then move forward and hit the brakes Just as I apply the brakes, I hear a click. Makes me think I've got some slop with one of my pads. I checked all of the bolts that were easy to get to. Any experience with this? Is this "normal" with aftermarket pads? Should I be worried enough to disassemble+reassemble? Thanks, Scott.
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Brake(s) 'clicking' - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:59:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brake(s) 'clicking' On Tue, October 3, 2006 3:56 pm, Scott said: > Is this "normal" with aftermarket pads? I can be if the aftermarket pads are lacking the retaining clip for the inner pad. Jim Bassett
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit - from m3 drvr
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Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 20:44:54 -0400 From: "m3 drvr" <m3bro@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit Larry, Have you looked at the Euro-conversion floating roaters for your M3? Clyde >From: Lawrence Barbieri <larry@logicalconclusions.com> >Reply-To: Lawrence Barbieri <larry@logicalconclusions.com> >To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >Subject: [E36M3] Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit >Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 14:06:31 -0500 > >Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:03:23 -0700 >From: Lawrence Barbieri <larry@logicalconclusions.com> >Subject: Re: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit > >My personal reason is getting a firmer pedal. These days as soon as the >brakes get hot the pedal starts to depress more and more. This causes me >to contort my foot to be able to heel/toe properly and as a result there >are always a couple of missed blips during a session. > >No matter how much I bleed or flush the brakes it doesn't seem to help. >Now, maybe there's something else wrong in my brake system, but I don't >know what it could be. Pedal is always very firm at the start of a >session. > >If I could get my pedal to behave with the stock brakes I'd be happy and I >too could find other places to put a couple of grand. > >--- Larry > >>-------------------- 10 -------------------- >>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 13:25:24 -0500 >>From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >>Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] RE: New UUC Wilwood Brake Kit >> >>>I've been running stock brakes with race pads for years in Club Racing. >>>And >>>running up front. Maybe my lap times would improve with a big brake kit >>>but >>>I'm not convinced. >> >>Personally I agree with Marco. I run stock rotors (Euro floaters in >>the front) and calipers with Hawk HT-10 or HT-14s and have had no >>problem on track with the stock brake ducting. I have a hard time >>imagining what you gain with bigger brakes because I am able to engage >>ABS without an issue now, even running Hoosier R6s. The stock brake >>calipers do need rebuilding annually because the dust boots dry out >>and crack, so maybe that is the real benefit of "big brakes" on the >>track. >> >>-- >>Jamie Howton >>2006 M Roadster >>2000 M5 >>1995 M3 >>Hampshire, IL >> > > > > > >************************************************* >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > >DIGEST INFORMATION: >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >************************************************* > >
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#8. Koni Rears - from Foley, Brian
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 19:27:03 -0500 From: "Foley, Brian" <bfoley@cmpd.org> Subject: Koni Rears <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7650.28"> <TITLE>[E36M3] E36M3 #4978</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV id=idOWAReplyText76292 dir=ltr> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Guys,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Just completed my rear Koni install along with the H&R sports. I must say that the process was a breeze; much easier than I had originally expected. The hardest part was removing all the interior trim in the trunk and having to unbolt my Rogue exhaust to get enough clearance to insert the left rear spring into the swingarm.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>I used the Rogue RSMs with the under-car access design and they were very easy to do; however I thought that the torque specs on these were kinda unusual. The top nut that mounts to the shock shaft was listed at 11 ft/lbs. The torque for the mount-to-body nuts was listed as 22 ft/lbs. </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Can anyone confirm that this is correct for me?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Also, I tossed the dust boot/rubber stops on the original Boge shocks as they were falling apart. I don't need to replace these/add to the Koni's do I?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>TIA,</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Brian Foley</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>'97 M3/4 w/ rears done, front struts to go.</FONT></DIV></DIV> </BODY> </HTML>
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#9. Brakes and want - from Foley, Brian
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 19:38:57 -0500 From: "Foley, Brian" <bfoley@cmpd.org> Subject: Brakes and want <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7650.28"> <TITLE>[E36M3] E36M3 #4980</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <DIV id=idOWAReplyText25681 dir=ltr> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Just for the record, I'm still looking for a pair of rear 8-inch double-spokes in good to great condition, tires need not be mounted. Can you check you respective garages?</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Also, what was the final decision regarding a very good street pad with low dusting? I need a set for the front when I do my struts. </FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Should have added this to the last post; sorry.</FONT></DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV dir=ltr><FONT size=2>Brian Foley</FONT></DIV></DIV> </BODY> </HTML>
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Brakes and want - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 18:08:23 -0700 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Brakes and want On Wednesday 04 October 2006 17:46, Foley, Brian wrote: > Also, what was the final decision regarding a very good street pad with low > dusting? I need a set for the front when I do my struts. > Should have added this to the last post; sorry. I just put a set of Akebono Euro Ceramic's on our '95 (well...about 500M ago) and really like them. A great pad set of the street. Not quite the cold bite of the stock pads but they seem to just keep getting better as they get hot. Also...damn near zero dust...the jurids made more dust in one stop than these have made in 500 miles. http://tinyurl.com/gl32l Dave