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#1. Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels - from Gary
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:34:45 -0600 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels I have the UUC STG2M5 set up. with a stock M5 clutch it drives close to stock. one side benefit. If your wife drives it and you leave the stock M3 clutch slave in the clutch pedal actually gets much easier to push. Once you get use to the light pedal you will never miss the heavier stock one, I would NEVER put the 325 unit in to make it heavier!. It does rattle some at idle, but with the ac and radio on you never really hear it in the car unless you do a drive through at a fast food joint. On daily driving with the ac/radio its invisible. NOW once you do it you may find yourself rolling the window down to rev the engine becasue it revs sooooo much nicer....Probably one of my top three mods to the car on my list of mile long mods...Nothing stock left on mine ;-) As long as you don't go FI the stock M5 clutch will be fine. I made 240whp with it and it was fine even after six or eight track days, I drive it like I stole it too ...I can tell you the M5 clutch won't hold up to boost..Mine slipped at 353whp :o) The six puck UUC ceramic clutch holds like a gorrilla though! Gary
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels - from Mel Silva
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:33:30 -0600 From: Mel Silva <melsilva@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels I performed this mod only a few months and 1500 miles ago. I'd echo Gary's comments, for the most part. :-\ In Houston, in case you don't know, it's hot. Damn hot. Humid too. So the AC stays on almost 9 months of the year. I find that the chattering does annoy me slightly. Not enough to go back to the stock setup, but with the AC on the chatter can get annoying while sitting in commute traffic. Other than that, this is one of the better mods I have made. I too kept the stock M3 clutch slave and found getting used to it took about two days. It is easy to burn the clutch with the light weight pedal when you are trying to modulate power delivery, but that is a preventable user error. However, throttle response is screamin! There's not much difference once you are up to speed, but at low speed the car feels 500 lbs lighter, and that's with my 220 lb butt in the driver's seat. My wife drove the care recently and nvere even commented about the clutch, so it must be okay by her. Money well spent in my mind. > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels - from Shelhart2@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:38:47 EST From: Shelhart2@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels My new 1995 M3 now has the M5 clutch and LTW flywheel. I like the clutch feel and find the car to be very responsive (and this is coming off of a modded E46 M3). I really enjoy the feel and added performance from the set up. I rarely have heard the chatter so it isn't significant enough for me and I'm picky. Rogue Engineering has evidently developed a LTW flywheel that is supposed to be "chatter free". I have no affiliation with Ben at rogue other than being a satisfied customer. I beleive that the kit on my 95 is from UUC as a reference point. Shel Hart 1995 M3 2002 Boxster S
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#4. RE: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:35:35 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Talk to me about Clutches/Lightweight Flywheels We have several spring hub disc options that use the proper E36 M3 pressure plate which keeps the cost down on our stage one which works for a lot of people (Under $900 with a JB Al flywheel). We also have the more aggressive pieces up to full race, as well as a clutch that will be a truly ground breaking piece when we release it early next year - this is a full custom unit, not a rewarmed stock part of any type. As for a LTW flywheel, I drive mine with a rigid disc in a big 6 speed, which is the worst combination you can have. It makes some noise with the AC on at idle and annoys me when it does that. Put in a sprung hub or a 5 speed and either way the noise is minimized to a very tolerable level for 98% of our customers. James James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com http://www.bimmerworldracing.com http://www.powerflexusa.com Race Proven BMW Performance 877.639.9648
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#5. Head Gasket - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:20:55 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Head Gasket Hello guys, After much research and considering my options I've come to the conclusion that I'll probably have to make an educated guess with regards to the bottom end of my engine. What I'll likely do after taking the head off is check bore clearances and carbon buildup and make some judgements that way. This because a blown head gasket won't give me an accurate leakdown test at all. Until then what I plan to do is change the head gasket and send the head out for service. My start times have been delayed so I plan to replace the camshaft sensors as well. So, I'm in the market for the special tools required for the job. I'd consider purchase or rental for a very fair price. I would need to rent them for in excess of 2 months as I plan to do the job slowly - also there could be the situation where the head absolute must have work done - damaged valves or obvious cracks. I think the rundown of the tools I need are flywheel locking pin, cam holddown tool, and timing chain tensioner tool. Do you guys see any reason to go further and replace the timing chain on a 180K motor? I'm also in the market for the parts required for the job. This is a solicitation for sure, please email me. I'd like the job done as inexpensively as possible, but with the most expensive and high quality parts. Run the motor into the ground but do it in style I guess :-P Thanks, Mark
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Peter Loron
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:12:54 -0800 From: "Peter Loron" <peterloron@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket I'm going to stand up and be counted, too. I also need to replace the headgasket (and maybe replace the head itself). If somebody has tools to sell/rent after Mark is taken care of, I'm in need. Also, I'm in need of whatever parts I'm in need of. :-) Right now, I know I need a headgasket kit, the head bolts, coolant, and oil. If somebody on the list (including our supporting vendors!) has something to offer, I'm all ears. Thanks! -Pete On 11/28/06, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:20:55 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Head Gasket > > Hello guys, > > After much research and considering my options I've come to the > conclusion that I'll probably have to make an educated guess with > regards to the bottom end of my engine. What I'll likely do after > taking the head off is check bore clearances and carbon buildup and make > some judgements that way. This because a blown head gasket won't give > me an accurate leakdown test at all. > > Until then what I plan to do is change the head gasket and send the head > out for service. > > My start times have been delayed so I plan to replace the camshaft > sensors as well. > > So, I'm in the market for the special tools required for the job. I'd > consider purchase or rental for a very fair price. I would need to rent > them for in excess of 2 months as I plan to do the job slowly - also > there could be the situation where the head absolute must have work done > - damaged valves or obvious cracks. I think the rundown of the tools I > need are flywheel locking pin, cam holddown tool, and timing chain > tensioner tool. > > Do you guys see any reason to go further and replace the timing chain on > a 180K motor? > > I'm also in the market for the parts required for the job. This is a > solicitation for sure, please email me. I'd like the job done as > inexpensively as possible, but with the most expensive and high quality > parts. Run the motor into the ground but do it in style I guess :-P > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#7. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:36:35 EST From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Mark, I'm not sure what you are wanting. I'm a day behind on e-mails but I thought I followed your saga. The head gasket blew on your 181,000 mile engine - correct? That is not uncommon and certainly not the end of your engine. You may have overheated your engine and may have warped the head but you don't know at this point - correct? It sounds like you are not on Forbes list the richest people in the country or at least you have better things to spend money on. And it sounds like your engine and M3 were working fine prior to the head gasket blowing out. You might have had a little high oil consumption but I personally think the oil you use has more to do with it than anything. I think if you use lightweight full synthetic oil, you will have more oil consumption than heavy weight conventional oil. I use 20W-50 Valvoline DuraBlend and don't use 1 quart in 5,000 miles. My 2 cents. Anyway, I'm off track. I think you have gotten good advice from Rich and Jim to just replace the head gasket and go. I agree with them. Just replace the head gasket if you are short of money. It sounds like your bottom end is fine. Unless your engine was burning oil, smoking, low power, etc... you bottom end was fine before the head gasket let go. And your top end is probably fine too if you have not over reved the engine. You said the engine ran strong just before the head gasket blew so that indicates no significantly bent valves. From your description, it sounds like all you need is a new head gasket and maybe the head milled if it is warped. If it is warped really bad, then the head is junk and you are looking at $2,000+ for a new head. I think the rest of your plan is good. Take the head off, send it to a machine shop to check if it is warped and can be reused. That's all the repair I would do at this time. A head gasket kit is about $300. You can buy the needed tools for $200. $500 and your labor - you'll likely have your M3 running fine again. For a tool source, I have used _www.etoolcart.com_ (http://www.etoolcart.com) I see the cam blocks and crank TDC pin are $180. _http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2035_ (http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2035) If you have time, you are very able to do your own head gasket replacement. It will get tricky when you put the VaNoS back together. Be sure you know what you are doing then. When you get there, post a question. Several of us on the list have experience with VaNoS (incorrect) timing. Good luck, Lowell Seaton '95 M3 ---------------------------------------------- In a message dated 11/28/06 9:24:18 PM Central Standard Time, mdlkml@atari-source.com writes: After much research and considering my options I've come to the conclusion that I'll probably have to make an educated guess with regards to the bottom end of my engine. What I'll likely do after taking the head off is check bore clearances and carbon buildup and make some judgments that way. This because a blown head gasket won't give me an accurate leakdown test at all. Until then what I plan to do is change the head gasket and send the head out for service. My start times have been delayed so I plan to replace the camshaft sensors as well. So, I'm in the market for the special tools required for the job. I'd consider purchase or rental for a very fair price. I would need to rent them for in excess of 2 months as I plan to do the job slowly - also there could be the situation where the head absolute must have work done - damaged valves or obvious cracks. I think the rundown of the tools I need are flywheel locking pin, cam holddown tool, and timing chain tensioner tool. Do you guys see any reason to go further and replace the timing chain on a 180K motor? I'm also in the market for the parts required for the job. This is a solicitation for sure, please email me. I'd like the job done as inexpensively as possible, but with the most expensive and high quality parts. Run the motor into the ground but do it in style I guess :-P Thanks, Mark
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Brian Ruiz
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Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 21:48:29 -0800 From: "Brian Ruiz" <eurowerke@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Hell yeah, I'd surely change the timing chain on a 180K motor. It's another $60 or so, but I think it is worth it. Surely that mileage has aged the chain a bit and it is slightly stretched. You probably won't be able to notice much of a difference (especially if the head gets rebuilt with new lifters and all) but you'll have the peace of mind of knowing you won't have to replace the whole engine when that hairline crack you didn't notice during inspection finally breaks 15k miles later :-P I wish I had some money to do a head rebuild on my car, I'd be buying a new chain in a heartbeat to make sure that everything is tight and clean. Brian build 8/95 On 11/28/06, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:20:55 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Head Gasket > > Hello guys, > > After much research and considering my options I've come to the > conclusion that I'll probably have to make an educated guess with > regards to the bottom end of my engine. What I'll likely do after > taking the head off is check bore clearances and carbon buildup and make > some judgements that way. This because a blown head gasket won't give > me an accurate leakdown test at all. > > Until then what I plan to do is change the head gasket and send the head > out for service. > > My start times have been delayed so I plan to replace the camshaft > sensors as well. > > So, I'm in the market for the special tools required for the job. I'd > consider purchase or rental for a very fair price. I would need to rent > them for in excess of 2 months as I plan to do the job slowly - also > there could be the situation where the head absolute must have work done > - damaged valves or obvious cracks. I think the rundown of the tools I > need are flywheel locking pin, cam holddown tool, and timing chain > tensioner tool. > > Do you guys see any reason to go further and replace the timing chain on > a 180K motor? > > I'm also in the market for the parts required for the job. This is a > solicitation for sure, please email me. I'd like the job done as > inexpensively as possible, but with the most expensive and high quality > parts. Run the motor into the ground but do it in style I guess :-P > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:09:31 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Don't know much about the internals. Do I have to take off the crank pulley and go in through there to get access to the bottom sprocket or can I thread it in from the top? Does the chain have no master link like my motorcycle chain? Is there enough clearance in the front to thread the new one through? I think I need a bentley manual :-P Thanks, Mark On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 21:48 -0800, Brian Ruiz wrote: > Hell yeah, I'd surely change the timing chain on a 180K motor. It's > another $60 or so, but I think it is worth it. Surely that mileage > has aged the chain a bit and it is slightly stretched. You probably > won't be able to notice much of a difference (especially if the head > gets rebuilt with new lifters and all) but you'll have the peace of > mind of knowing you won't have to replace the whole engine when that > hairline crack you didn't notice during inspection finally breaks 15k > miles later :-P > > I wish I had some money to do a head rebuild on my car, I'd be buying > a new chain in a heartbeat to make sure that everything is tight and > clean. > > Brian > build 8/95 > > On 11/28/06, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 22:20:55 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Head Gasket > > Hello guys, > > After much research and considering my options I've come to > the > conclusion that I'll probably have to make an educated guess > with > regards to the bottom end of my engine. What I'll likely do > after > taking the head off is check bore clearances and carbon > buildup and make > some judgements that way. This because a blown head gasket > won't give > me an accurate leakdown test at all. > > Until then what I plan to do is change the head gasket and > send the head > out for service. > > My start times have been delayed so I plan to replace the > camshaft > sensors as well. > > So, I'm in the market for the special tools required for the > job. I'd > consider purchase or rental for a very fair price. I would > need to rent > them for in excess of 2 months as I plan to do the job slowly > - also > there could be the situation where the head absolute must have > work done > - damaged valves or obvious cracks. I think the rundown of > the tools I > need are flywheel locking pin, cam holddown tool, and timing > chain > tensioner tool. > > Do you guys see any reason to go further and replace the > timing chain on > a 180K motor? > > I'm also in the market for the parts required for the > job. This is a > solicitation for sure, please email me. I'd like the job done > as > inexpensively as possible, but with the most expensive and > high quality > parts. Run the motor into the ground but do it in style I > guess :-P > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High > Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 01:41:57 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 23:43 -0600, LoweSeaton@aol.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:36:35 EST > From: LoweSeaton@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > Mark, > > I'm not sure what you are wanting. I'm a day behind on e-mails but I > thought I followed your saga. The head gasket blew on your 181,000 mile engine - > correct? That is not uncommon and certainly not the end of your engine. You > may have overheated your engine and may have warped the head but you don't > know at this point - correct? > > It sounds like you are not on Forbes list the richest people in the country > or at least you have better things to spend money on. And it sounds like > your engine and M3 were working fine prior to the head gasket blowing out. You > might have had a little high oil consumption but I personally think the oil > you use has more to do with it than anything. I think if you use lightweight > full synthetic oil, you will have more oil consumption than heavy weight > conventional oil. I use 20W-50 Valvoline DuraBlend and don't use 1 quart in > 5,000 miles. My 2 cents. > > Anyway, I'm off track. I think you have gotten good advice from Rich and > Jim to just replace the head gasket and go. I agree with them. Just replace > the head gasket if you are short of money. It sounds like your bottom end is > fine. Unless your engine was burning oil, smoking, low power, etc... you > bottom end was fine before the head gasket let go. And your top end is probably > fine too if you have not over reved the engine. You said the engine ran > strong just before the head gasket blew so that indicates no significantly bent > valves. > > >From your description, it sounds like all you need is a new head gasket and > maybe the head milled if it is warped. If it is warped really bad, then the > head is junk and you are looking at $2,000+ for a new head. > > I think the rest of your plan is good. Take the head off, send it to a > machine shop to check if it is warped and can be reused. That's all the repair I > would do at this time. > > A head gasket kit is about $300. You can buy the needed tools for $200. > $500 and your labor - you'll likely have your M3 running fine again. > > For a tool source, I have used _www.etoolcart.com_ (http://www.etoolcart.com) > I see the cam blocks and crank TDC pin are $180. > _http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2035_ > (http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2035) > > If you have time, you are very able to do your own head gasket replacement. > It will get tricky when you put the VaNoS back together. Be sure you know > what you are doing then. When you get there, post a question. Several of us > on the list have experience with VaNoS (incorrect) timing. Good luck, Lowell, Thanks for this killer information. It's nice to know the group will be here when it comes time for vanos timing. I'll try to get a grip on it using the Pelican parts article but we'll see. When I'm done and my baby lives again, I'll pass the tools around to whomever needs them. I'll be ordering tomorrow probably. As a final question, before I stop bugging you all finally, I was wondering what precautions I should take to protect the open head/block/pistons? Should I cover with plastic or leave exposed? Are clear shoprags ok? Should I use Kimwipes? I've never cracked open an engine before. Really wish this expensive monster wasn't the first but it is how it is. Thanks, Mark