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#1. Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Tom Melton
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:58:57 -0500 From: "Tom Melton" <Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat Tim, The buggest difference is how fast the engine will warm up. 92 deg celcius is 198 deg farenheit. Do you have an accuate gauge on the car? If your normal running temp is higher than 198, then the thermostat change will make no difference in operating temp. 80 degrees celcius is 176 farenheit. If your cooling system is up to it, you may be able to lower your normal operating temp if it runs now at 198-200 degrees as the current thermostat could be opening/closing to keep it at that temp. If you are running 210-220 all the time as "normal", again, the change will make no real difference. Also, be warned that if your can does hover around 198-200 with the current thermostat and you swap, and get somewhat cooler, your emissions may go up, and you could start to have catalytic converter issues, and emissions testing issues... -Tom >>> "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> 12/14/2006 2:34 pm >>> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:26:34 -0500 From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> Subject: e36 vs e36 thermostat I am in the process of changing all my coolant system+ hoses and looking at the Thermostat of the e36 m3 92 deg. verse the e30's 80 deg. They are the same size/shape and the e30 one will fit the e36 housing and cavity. So other than the 92 vs 80 deg. thing, is there any reason NOT to swap them to run a cooler system? Is 12 degrees really that much differernt (I am in Atlanta so it gets HOTTTT) I know i will not have as much heat BUT I am in Hotlanta so not that big a deal. Have anyone tried the swap. I know Bimmerworld sells a cooler thermostat too but i am looking at alternatives and what I have in stock. Tim Ng BMWCCA # 36497 95 BUZZNM3 94 325i future SPEC E36 race car 92 325ic M-Technic 91 M3 street car 88 M3/2.5 DM race car 87 325is D.E. car (FOR SALE) ------------------ project 90 535ia ------------------ Pace shadow 26 ft enclosed trailer my web page: http://groups.msn.com/M3stuff/pictures ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. Re: e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:51:32 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: e36 vs e36 thermostat on 12/14/06 3:04 PM, "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> wrote: > looking at the Thermostat of the e36 m3 92 deg. verse the e30's 80 deg. They > are the same size/shape and the e30 one will fit the e36 housing and cavity. > So other than the 92 vs 80 deg. thing, is there any reason NOT to swap them to > run a cooler system? You're assuming there's some benefit, right? There's a max hp benefit to keeping the intake air cooler, but coolant/engine temps don't materially affect that. In any case a lower temp t'stat will result in lower coolant temperatures at lower ambients and lighter engine loads, i.e. when you don't really care, but not at higher ambients and high engine output, i.e. when you do care. A lower temp t'stat setting does not increase the cooling system's efficiency (slight decrease in fact) or max cooling capacity. If you have emissions inspections where you live then running the engine cooler will make it harder to pass. On the plus side a lower average running temp over time might mean that your radiator failure due to heat degradation of the plastic pieces will occur less soon than otherwise. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD
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#3. e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:33:15 -0500 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: e36 vs e36 thermostat > > From: "tim ng" s14realm3@hotmail.com > > I am in the process of changing all my coolant system+ hoses and looking > at > the Thermostat of the e36 m3 92 deg. verse the e30's 80 deg. They are the > same size/shape and the e30 one will fit the e36 housing and cavity. So > other than the 92 vs 80 deg. thing, is there any reason NOT to swap them > to > run a cooler system? Is 12 degrees really that much differernt (I am in > Atlanta so it gets HOTTTT) I know i will not have as much heat BUT I am in > Hotlanta so not that big a deal. Have anyone tried the swap. I know > Bimmerworld sells a cooler thermostat too but i am looking at alternatives > and what I have in stock. All it will do is open the thermostat sooner and not allow the engine to get to the operating temperature it was designed for as quickly. It will not ultimately impact the operating temperature of the engine so it will not truly result in a "cooler system" as you state. If you are truly concerned about how hot the motor is running, run your heater on max temp/fan speed all the time, upgrade the radiator and/or add an oil cooler. Regards, Rich
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#4. Check Engine Light - from Brian Bacon
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:33:46 -0800 From: "Brian Bacon" <bbacon@inmotionfitness.net> Subject: Check Engine Light My check engine light came on about a week ago, then yesterday it mysteriously went out all on it's own. I was not experiencing any other problems and I recently had an inspection II done so I wasn't that concerned. So I'm wondering did the problem go away or do I still have the problem with a "burned out" check engine bulb. Thanks Brian Bacon 98/M34 Bone Stock
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Check Engine Light - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:51:47 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Check Engine Light On Thu, December 14, 2006 2:44 pm, Brian Bacon said: > My check engine light came on about a week ago, then yesterday it > mysteriously went out all on it's own. AIUI, some CE faults will turn off the CE light if the fault is no longer present for a certain number of "start cycles" or "drive cycles". The fault should still be stored though, so you can still read out the code to see what the fault actually was. Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#6. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Check Engine Light - from Marco
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:58:57 -0800 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Check Engine Light 1) IIRC Light should come on as part of all the lights on the dash when the car is initially turned to the on position. So you can check to see if the light works. 2) Also IIRC if the cel came on due to a emissions problem it will stay illuminated and if the cause were to be fixed (leaky gas cap for instance) the light will go out after a "drive cycle" has been completed. It can take a while to complete a drive cycle. But I'm an OBDI guy. All that fancy smancy drive cycle crap is OBDII http://www.aa1car.com/obd2help/ Marco -----Original Message----- From: Brian Bacon [mailto:bbacon@inmotionfitness.net] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:44 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] Check Engine Light Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 14:33:46 -0800 From: "Brian Bacon" <bbacon@inmotionfitness.net> Subject: Check Engine Light My check engine light came on about a week ago, then yesterday it mysteriously went out all on it's own. I was not experiencing any other problems and I recently had an inspection II done so I wasn't that concerned. So I'm wondering did the problem go away or do I still have the problem with a "burned out" check engine bulb. Thanks Brian Bacon 98/M34 Bone Stock ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 12/13/2006 6:13 PM
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#7. Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:36:29 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 16:34 -0600, Rich Dorffer wrote: > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 17:33:15 -0500 > From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> > Subject: e36 vs e36 thermostat > > > > > From: "tim ng" s14realm3@hotmail.com > > > > I am in the process of changing all my coolant system+ hoses and looking > > at > > the Thermostat of the e36 m3 92 deg. verse the e30's 80 deg. They are the > > same size/shape and the e30 one will fit the e36 housing and cavity. So > > other than the 92 vs 80 deg. thing, is there any reason NOT to swap them > > to > > run a cooler system? Is 12 degrees really that much differernt (I am in > > Atlanta so it gets HOTTTT) I know i will not have as much heat BUT I am in > > Hotlanta so not that big a deal. Have anyone tried the swap. I know > > Bimmerworld sells a cooler thermostat too but i am looking at alternatives > > and what I have in stock. > > > All it will do is open the thermostat sooner and not allow the engine to get > to the operating temperature it was designed for as quickly. > > It will not ultimately impact the operating temperature of the engine so it > will not truly result in a "cooler system" as you state. If you are truly > concerned about how hot the motor is running, run your heater on max > temp/fan speed all the time, upgrade the radiator and/or add an oil cooler. > > Regards, > > Rich Ok, I hear you, but for the unenlightened why? Does the engine just want to run at the higher temperature regardless of how much cooling power you throw at it? Thanks, Mark
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#8. Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:55:40 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat On Dec 14, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Mark Duckworth wrote: >> All it will do is open the thermostat sooner and not allow the >> engine to get >> to the operating temperature it was designed for as quickly. >> >> It will not ultimately impact the operating temperature of the >> engine so it >> will not truly result in a "cooler system" as you state. If you >> are truly >> concerned about how hot the motor is running, run your heater on max >> temp/fan speed all the time, upgrade the radiator and/or add an >> oil cooler. > > Ok, I hear you, but for the unenlightened why? Does the engine just > want to run at the higher temperature regardless of how much cooling > power you throw at it? Higher than 90 degrees? Umm, yeah. My race car runs in the mid 200s on the track. - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar
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#9. Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 19:26:25 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat On Thu, 2006-12-14 at 18:04 -0600, Mark Dadgar wrote: > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 15:55:40 -0800 > From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat > > On Dec 14, 2006, at 3:44 PM, Mark Duckworth wrote: > >> All it will do is open the thermostat sooner and not allow the > >> engine to get > >> to the operating temperature it was designed for as quickly. > >> > >> It will not ultimately impact the operating temperature of the > >> engine so it > >> will not truly result in a "cooler system" as you state. If you > >> are truly > >> concerned about how hot the motor is running, run your heater on max > >> temp/fan speed all the time, upgrade the radiator and/or add an > >> oil cooler. > > > > Ok, I hear you, but for the unenlightened why? Does the engine just > > want to run at the higher temperature regardless of how much cooling > > power you throw at it? > > Higher than 90 degrees? Umm, yeah. > > My race car runs in the mid 200s on the track. I never knew this. I thought the fan came on to induce cooling and the thermostat opened to induce warming to maintain a constant 90 degrees. I didn't realize that they get WAY hotter on a normal basis. Thanks, Mark
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#10. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat - from Mark Dadgar
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Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:40:29 -0800 From: Mark Dadgar <mark@pdc-racing.net> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] e36 vs e36 thermostat On Dec 14, 2006, at 4:27 PM, Marco Romani wrote: > Hopefully it doesn't in Celsius. BMW thermos are rated degree C. > 88C is 176F, so I still run much higher than the t-stat temp. :) - Mark ----- mark@pdc-racing.net Check out my JustRacing Home Page at: http://www.justracing.com/homepage/mdadgar