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#1. Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? - from Scott M
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 21:49:27 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? As I said before, I owned one for 1 year. And sold it 9 months before the CPO warrantee was set to expire. The timing was pretty good because the C6 vette was just coming out at the time and dealers could not GIVE away C5 Z06's. So I grabbed one for $12K off sticker and traded the M5 in for well above wholesale - most likely more than I would have seen on the open market I felt. I saw the writing on the wall on repair cost and depreciation, especially for a real daily driver that will see 12K+ miles / year. Once they get up over 50K miles the price really starts dropping like a rock, and up near 100K they are virtually give-aways. I recall Jamie sold his 00 with near 100K on it for under $20K, which is pretty close to what a same year / miles 540 would fetch. People are very afraid of the hidden costs in these cars and for very good reason. Damn fine cars, but they do not seem to be nearly as bullet-proof as the E34 M5 was.... So, IMHO the maint + depr on a M5 will certainly exceed that of a new 335i at least over the next 3-4 years and probably indefinitely. 3 year lease residuals are 63% based on 12K miles on the 335i. That is ~$16K of depreciation over the next 3 years. 2002 M5 will run around $40K. In 3 years it will be worth $25K if you are lucky. Very lucky. And what are the chances the repair bill on a 2002 M5 will be $1K over a 3 year period? I think the ownership cost could easily approach double for the 2002 M5 vs. a new 335i. Absolute best case it will cost 50% more. But equal? Not a chance. IMHO. Scott On Dec 19, 2006, at 5:43 PM, M540 wrote: > Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:35:51 -0500 > From: "M540" <m540@bellsouth.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? > > Holy cow! I know a number of others here have probably owned an > e39 M5 at > some point. Can any of you offer data points on your cost-of- > ownership > experience? I've actually been doing the 335i vs. 2002 (no > warranty) M5 > comparison myself but had never estimated M5 ownership costs as > high as > Jamie's experience. Is this a normal number? > > The 335i looks like it might be a chip away from 90% of the power > of an M5, > weighs over 400 pounds less (and gives up 10 inches of length along > with > some wheelbase). My conclusion was that in addition to costing a > $5-10k > more, the depreciation of the 335i would likely exceed the > depreciation and > maintenance cost of a 2002 M5. Not so? > > Kevin > > > Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 07:14:33 -0600 > From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? > >> Huge difference in operating costs between a brand new 335 and a >> used M5. > <snip> > > I absolutely agree. I recently sold my 2000 M5 and during 21 months > of ownership the repair bills averaged $1,000 per month. > <snip> > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:25:46 -0600 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? > Holy cow! I know a number of others here have probably owned an e39 M5 at > some point. Can any of you offer data points on your cost-of-ownership > experience? I've actually been doing the 335i vs. 2002 (no warranty) M5 > comparison myself but had never estimated M5 ownership costs as high as > Jamie's experience. Is this a normal number? No, I don't think it's normal at all for a car with normal mileage but I drive about 35K miles/year. I put 42K miles on it in 21 months and it isn't my only street car. I think you'll find many others that haven't shared my experience, and have enjoyed trouble free E-39 M5 experiences. My problem was that I fell in love with the car and then after CPO ran out I had a higher tolerance for the pain because of it. I still have a smile on my face when I think about mashing the loud pedal in that car, and don't regret the expense for a minute. -- Jamie Howton 2006 M Roadster 2004 645Ci 1995 M3 Hampshire, IL
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#3. Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:21:11 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? On Tue, December 19, 2006 8:04 pm, David Thomas said: > I used the UUC kit on mine. Works good. Works well, too :-) Another one with the UUC bushings - been squeak-free for about a year now.. In addition, from a rec here or somewhere else (I can't quite remember :-)), I used Tri-Flow synthetic grease. Got it at a local bike store. Oddly, mine used to be "squeakiest" in hot weather. Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#4. 24 Hours of LeMons - from Ahmad Lutfeali
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:20:26 -0500 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: 24 Hours of LeMons Since this list has been slow, let me stir up the pot a bit... Looking for an E30 working donor car. With cage? GREAT!!! http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/ According to the rules, we need a car to be no more than $500. Cage, brakes, tires are part of the safety equipment and we are not rounding it up but we need a donor car. I am working with a local guy here who has a 318i but the car is too good and the price is a bit high. IF you have one in the garage that you want to contribute towards this project, I have 5 large ones sitting for you right here ;) Not twisting the rules, but the budget we have in mind (to satisfy the rules) is $3K which should include the cage and what nots, if you have a running beater E30 car with cage, that would work too we can break down the numbers to satisfy the rules. If you have an E30 cage and track consumables that you want to sell, hit me up. We have lined up the drivers (so far 4 confirmed with yours truly being the only club racer among 'one' current Grand Am driver and 'two' known ex-Camel GT drivers). We "MAY" have room for two more... (max 6 drivers) the event will be in CA. Last but not least, can someone please forward this to the E30 Sig as well? I need to put the parts/car together quickly. Thanks, Ahmad
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#5. Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? - from David Thomas
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:21:20 -0800 From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? On Wednesday 20 December 2006 10:23 am, Jim Bassett wrote: > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:21:11 -0800 (PST) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? > > On Tue, December 19, 2006 8:04 pm, David Thomas said: > > I used the UUC kit on mine. Works good. > > Works well, too :-) Gee, sorry, didn't know the grammar police were on this list. Dave
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#6. Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:43:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? On Wed, December 20, 2006 1:23 pm, David Thomas said: > Gee, sorry, didn't know the grammar police were on this list. "Nobody expects the grammar police." :-) Jim Bassett
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#7. Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? - from Gus Iverson
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:47:29 -0800 From: "Gus Iverson" <gus.iverson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? But what about the Spanish Inquisition? The comfy chair? The soft pillow? On 12/20/06, Jim Bassett <jim@jimbassett.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:43:29 -0800 (PST) > From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? > > On Wed, December 20, 2006 1:23 pm, David Thomas said: > > Gee, sorry, didn't know the grammar police were on this list. > > "Nobody expects the grammar police." > > :-) > > Jim Bassett > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? - from m3 drvr
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:21:16 -0500 From: "m3 drvr" <m3bro@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? Ok, Ok. Let me make sure I am on the same page with you all. Are you saying that an M5 would cost about $4k - $6k a year for repairs? From what I have read the majority of owners for M5s have not had many problems but there have been a *number* of folks with issues (in some small cases excessive). Please correct me if I am wrong. I was think about one of these (02 or 03) as a replacement for my 98 sedan but I am getting more cold feet the more I think about maintenance (and read what you all are saying). Also, from my research (because I was some time back seriously looking at getting either a E34 M5 or Canadian M-sport) that these cars (especially the E34 M5s) require LOTS of engine and suspension maintenance (with the auto leveling). I didn't get the impression that these cars were bullet proof, especially with the nikasil engine issues. Lastly, I don't know about the rest of you but when I think about turbo cars especially twin ones I don't get the warm and fuzzies about it (think about Audi's S4 or the RS-6). this is the first turbo car they have done in ....almost forever. I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is a safe bet although you have the coverage how often do you want to be at the "stealers"... >From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >Reply-To: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:33:58 -0600 > >Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:25:46 -0600 >From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? > >>Holy cow! I know a number of others here have probably owned an e39 M5 at >>some point. Can any of you offer data points on your cost-of-ownership >>experience? I've actually been doing the 335i vs. 2002 (no warranty) M5 >>comparison myself but had never estimated M5 ownership costs as high as >>Jamie's experience. Is this a normal number? > >No, I don't think it's normal at all for a car with normal mileage but >I drive about 35K miles/year. I put 42K miles on it in 21 months and >it isn't my only street car. > >I think you'll find many others that haven't shared my experience, and >have enjoyed trouble free E-39 M5 experiences. My problem was that I >fell in love with the car and then after CPO ran out I had a higher >tolerance for the pain because of it. > >I still have a smile on my face when I think about mashing the loud >pedal in that car, and don't regret the expense for a minute. > >-- >Jamie Howton >2006 M Roadster >2004 645Ci >1995 M3 >Hampshire, IL > > >************************************************* >Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > >Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > >DIGEST INFORMATION: >http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >************************************************* > > _________________________________________________________________ Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview
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#9. [e36m3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? - from tom eby
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:44:02 -0800 From: "tom eby" <thomaseby@hotmail.com> Subject: [e36m3] fix for squeaking clutch pedal? In my experience, clutch squeaks come from two different sources. The most common are the bushings for an upper pivot (pn 35211158290). These are readily availble from UUC etc. and solve the side-side slop plus squeak issues. I've done the install and it solves the issue nicely. A second source of squeaks seem comes from the plunger-spring-thing (pn 35311158661). Somehow this plunger-spring-thing wears or becomes dirty and begins to squeak. Now that the weather has turned colder (SF Bay Area), mine no longer squeaks. What gives? At some point, I'll R&R, but that'll be once it starts squeaking again. Pictograph from realoem.com: http://tinyurl.com/yftor4 HTH, -tom eby 96 m3 74 02 -- >Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:42:19 EST >From: Mdriver13@aol.com >Subject: fix for squeaking clutch pedal? > >Group, > >With the on-set of cold weather my clutch pedal is starting to make those >unmentionable sounds that most everyone has experienced one time or >another. >What is the best know fix? <snip> _________________________________________________________________ Get live scores and news about your team: Add the Live.com Football Page www.live.com/?addtemplate=football&icid=T001MSN30A0701
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#10. Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? - from Scott M
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:37:33 -0800 From: Scott M <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? I would plan on at least $3K / year on repair budget into any calculations. Good point on the first turbo car too - that is a big unknown, although it doesn't have much boost since it only adds about 60hp to the NA motor. E34 M5 has a very bulletproof engine and drivetrain and the electrical system is so simple it rarely gives any grief. The auto leveling suspension is a problem area, but can be replaced with conventional stuff (also, not all cars had that option). M540 has the nikasil issue, not the M5. Also, any 540 that is showing good compression numbers now should be go for the duration and many of the cars had the blocks replaced. It is not as big a deal as it is made out to be really, and has really driven the prices down. M540's are pretty rare though. I have a couple buddies who drive E34 M5's as their daily drivers. It is a 15 year old car at this point, but they have had almost no issues beyond the normal expected maint and wear items and a few nagging oil leaks. The cars really are pretty bullet-proof. I would worry less about owning one than a E39 M5 to be honest, but part of that is because I have significant DIY capability and the older cars are easier to work on. Also the depreciation is basically gone with the E34, so you are only paying for upkeep - not upkeep plus big depreciation like the E39 M5. Scott On Dec 20, 2006, at 6:23 PM, m3 drvr wrote: > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:21:16 -0500 > From: "m3 drvr" <m3bro@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? > > Ok, Ok. Let me make sure I am on the same page with you all. > > Are you saying that an M5 would cost about $4k - $6k a year for > repairs? From what I have read the majority of owners for M5s have > not had many problems but there have been a *number* of folks with > issues (in some small cases excessive). Please correct me if I am > wrong. I was think about one of these (02 or 03) as a replacement > for my 98 sedan but I am getting more cold feet the more I think > about maintenance (and read what you all are saying). > > Also, from my research (because I was some time back seriously > looking at getting either a E34 M5 or Canadian M-sport) that these > cars (especially the E34 M5s) require LOTS of engine and suspension > maintenance (with the auto leveling). I didn't get the impression > that these cars were bullet proof, especially with the nikasil > engine issues. > > Lastly, I don't know about the rest of you but when I think about > turbo cars especially twin ones I don't get the warm and fuzzies > about it (think about Audi's S4 or the RS-6). this is the first > turbo car they have done in ...almost forever. I wouldn't go so > far as to say that this is a safe bet although you have the > coverage how often do you want to be at the "stealers"... > > > > >> From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >> Reply-To: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? >> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:33:58 -0600 >> >> Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 06:25:46 -0600 >> From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] to 335i or not to 335i? >> >>> Holy cow! I know a number of others here have probably owned an >>> e39 M5 at >>> some point. Can any of you offer data points on your cost-of- >>> ownership >>> experience? I've actually been doing the 335i vs. 2002 (no >>> warranty) M5 >>> comparison myself but had never estimated M5 ownership costs as >>> high as >>> Jamie's experience. Is this a normal number? >> >> No, I don't think it's normal at all for a car with normal mileage >> but >> I drive about 35K miles/year. I put 42K miles on it in 21 months and >> it isn't my only street car. >> >> I think you'll find many others that haven't shared my experience, >> and >> have enjoyed trouble free E-39 M5 experiences. My problem was that I >> fell in love with the car and then after CPO ran out I had a higher >> tolerance for the pain because of it. >> >> I still have a smile on my face when I think about mashing the loud >> pedal in that car, and don't regret the expense for a minute. >> >> -- >> Jamie Howton >> 2006 M Roadster >> 2004 645Ci >> 1995 M3 >> Hampshire, IL >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Your Hotmail address already works to sign into Windows Live > Messenger! Get it now http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/ > msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/ > overview > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >