-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Mark Duckworth
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. We shall see. Thanks, Makr On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 19:54 -0600, Jamie Howton wrote: > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:47:53 -0600 > From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > Between the two of us we applied well over 1000 pounds of pressure to it > > and it wouldn't release. Do I need an engine hoist to separate it? > > I don't think that's a good idea -- IIRC, mine came up without much > of an effort. It is fairly heavy if you are removing it yourself but > with help it ahouldn't be a problem. I would take another look at > fastners if I were you. >
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from R. Bruce Shafer
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:03:44 -0500 From: "R. Bruce Shafer" <mzealot@bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Check for one more bolt in the front of the head. I read that you already got two out, but there may be one more. It's been a while since I had to pull one of these heads, but I missed a bolt in the front one time. Sounds like the same deal here. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Duckworth" <mdlkml@atari-source.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:34 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope > I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I > especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't > move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. > We shall see. > > Thanks, > Makr > > > On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 19:54 -0600, Jamie Howton wrote: >> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:47:53 -0600 >> From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket >> >> > Between the two of us we applied well over 1000 pounds of pressure to >> > it >> > and it wouldn't release. Do I need an engine hoist to separate it? >> >> I don't think that's a good idea -- IIRC, mine came up without much >> of an effort. It is fairly heavy if you are removing it yourself but >> with help it ahouldn't be a problem. I would take another look at >> fastners if I were you. >> > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Brian Ruiz
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:23:17 -0800 From: "Brian Ruiz" <eurowerke@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket There are 3 bolts that hold down the front of the head to the lower timing cover. There is the one recessed one on the left, then the one that also holds down the secondary timing chain tensioner, then the one on the right. I checked my Bentley, and page 113-14, step 34 on the bottom left of the page, says "remove two mounting bolts holding head to lower timing chain cover" but the caption for figure 39 points to 3 bolts, noting that the middle one marked A also holds the secondary tensioner. Did you remove all three? Brian build 8/95 On 1/20/07, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope > I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I > especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't > move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. > We shall see. > > Thanks, > Makr > > > On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 19:54 -0600, Jamie Howton wrote: > > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:47:53 -0600 > > From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > > > Between the two of us we applied well over 1000 pounds of pressure to > it > > > and it wouldn't release. Do I need an engine hoist to separate it? > > > > I don't think that's a good idea -- IIRC, mine came up without much > > of an effort. It is fairly heavy if you are removing it yourself but > > with help it ahouldn't be a problem. I would take another look at > > fastners if I were you. > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket - from Mark Duckworth
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:24:24 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Oh no, it IS off. The hole was filled with oil and I didn't realize there was an E8 bolt in there. I'm rather embarassed honestly. I've done pretty well so far but I should have known better than to pull and push on it. I'm just saying, now that it's off, I'm worried that I damaged it. Thanks, Mark On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 22:03 -0500, R. Bruce Shafer wrote: > Check for one more bolt in the front of the head. > > I read that you already got two out, but there may be one more. It's been a > while since I had to pull one of these heads, but I missed a bolt in the > front one time. Sounds like the same deal here. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Duckworth" <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:34 PM > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 > > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > > This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope > > I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I > > especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't > > move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. > > We shall see. > > > > Thanks, > > Makr > > > > > > On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 19:54 -0600, Jamie Howton wrote: > >> Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:47:53 -0600 > >> From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > >> > >> > Between the two of us we applied well over 1000 pounds of pressure to > >> > it > >> > and it wouldn't release. Do I need an engine hoist to separate it? > >> > >> I don't think that's a good idea -- IIRC, mine came up without much > >> of an effort. It is fairly heavy if you are removing it yourself but > >> with help it ahouldn't be a problem. I would take another look at > >> fastners if I were you. > >> > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > >
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Re: ABS Module - from jbjerke@charter.net
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:09:23 -0800 From: <jbjerke@charter.net> Subject: Re: ABS Module Patrick, I have an ABS module off a 1997 M3 that was converted to a Euromotor. Part number 34 52 1 164 023 for ABS and ASC+T. Since 95's don't have traction control, I'm guessing it's not going to work in your 95. Maybe someone else would know. If it will I'll sell it at a very reasonable price. I also have the airbag module and airbag sensor off the 1997 if anyone is in need. Jeff > Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:12:42 -0500 > From: "Patrick Kelly" <pkelly@agincourtcapital.com> > Subject: ABS Module > > Well, it looks like the ABS control unit is history. I'm getting the ABS > light after a few minutes of driving; seems to light up after a bit of > vibration. > > > > I'm assuming it's part #34521138219. RealOEM.com ETK shows a price of > $1075.
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Re: Head Gasket - from Neil Maller
Top
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 23:24:53 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Head Gasket on 1/20/07 9:04 PM, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > I'm down to the end. I took out all the head bolts. My buddy came over > and we tried to separate the head from the block. We pulled, twisted, > kicked, hammered, did just about every damn thing we could think of and > it refused to even let out a groan. It's stuck. > > Do I need an engine hoist to separate it? on 1/20/07 9:04 PM, "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> wrote: > I don't think that's a good idea -- IIRC, mine came up without much > of an effort. It is fairly heavy if you are removing it yourself but > with help it shouldn't be a problem. I would take another look at > fasteners if I were you. What Jamie said: it's heavy but otherwise should come off in a straightforward way. I don't recall the specifics at this point, two years after I did mine, but I'd be looking for hidden/extra/non-obvious fasteners in addition to the main head bolts. You're absolutely sure you got all 14 of those, right? What are the three Torx bolts #9, 10 and 11 here: <http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG93&mospid=47488&btnr=11_150 7&hg=11&fg=15>? They're not the main head bolts, which are #7. How about the timing case cover? Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Head Gasket - Head Off - from Mark Duckworth
Top
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:26:34 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Head Gasket - Head Off Hey guys, I have yet to do any measurements but hopefully I didn't damage the head with my ridiculously stupid pulling. I'm told that if I did and the core is unusable, that it's an $800 mistake. Because of the money I'm saving I think it's a mistake I can afford but hopefully the cold aluminum just didn't bend under human strength. My personal opinion is that what would have bent is the last bolt itself. The bolt is straight as an arrow however. The metal alignment guides seem unharmed. The head really didn't budge at all when we were pulling on it. I still feel pretty stupid though :-/ The head is off and sitting on wood. I took pictures of each cylinder. The valve cover had two little nuts on either end in the middle that I didn't take off. These broke getting the valve cover off, however I don't see where the actual break is on the valve cover. They look fine to me. Also if you look at one of the spark plug channels, one of the pieces of plastic decided to stay on there. I'm really not sure if I need a new valve cover as a result or not. I think possibly not. I was hoping the experienced guys could do a visual evaluation of the cylinders and let me know just how bad this is or isn't. I figure some carbon buildup is normal but number 6 looks kind of strangely oily. Number 1 has a lot of material in general kind of flaked up. The pictures of the pistons below are huge and you can zoom in majorly on them. I am going to take cylinder bore measurements once I pick a tool and I think that will be the final determination on whether or not a bottom end rebuild is. I'm really crossing my fingers hoping I could get 100,000 miles out of the bottom end. I think by the time I'm there I'll have enough money to put a race engine in and build a race car. I noticed you can physically move the pistons in the bore slightly from side to side (looking from the front). Is that normal or is that a sign of serious out of roundness? They all seem to match in terms of movement. Keep in mind this was a good running non-smoking low oil burning engine. http://picasaweb.google.com/evaporated/M3HeadGasketRepair The new pics are the ones starting of the head on the floor. Thanks, Mark
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Subframe Bushing R&R (stock class race preparation) - from Stan Shaw
Top
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:02:27 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw" <Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net> Subject: Subframe Bushing R&R (stock class race preparation) I am about to start my race preparation on my 96 M3. Since it has 170k miles on it, the first part I am going to start with is the rear subframe and differential bushings. Does anyone have a write-up on this? I have found some documentation that says remove the subframe and have a machine shop do it and other documentation that says it can be done with a special BMW tool. I have already done the trailing arm bushings and have JTD upper mounts (as well as a JTD transmission mount). So I think this is all I will be doing in the back end, unless someone has other thoughts. I did get a deal on used UUC exhaust so that will go in at the same time. I will probably start on installing the roll cage after that. I have a bolt in Autopower cage that per the rules will have to be welded in :-( I plan on using a Kirkey Road Race seat (I bought two years ago but one is rarely in my 928 anyways) that I am hoping to use the VAC floor mounts with. The third phase of the project will be refreshing the motor. Depending on time and availability (and of course funds), I will either rebuild my current motor or buy a new long block. Used motors seem to command too high of a price compared to a new long block (less than $6k). I suspect my motor may have a nominally warped head so don't know whether the cost of refreshing the motor will approach the cost of the new long block. While doing the motor I will upgrade to urethane motor mounts. I am on digest, so thoughts, particularly related to the rear subframe work at hand would be appreciated. Regards, Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off - from Marco
Top
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:28:06 -0800 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off I haven't done a ton of S50s but I've probably had 5 or 6 apart in one way or another. Typically the sloppiness of the cylinder in the bore is progressively worse as you got from the front of the engine to the back (cyl 1-6). The flow of coolant is goes from front to back so you the front tends. The sloppiness is a sign that a rebuild is in order, however I've seen some really strong motors with some amazing slop. Usually the cylinder #1 is nice and tight and #6 you can rattle around. But I haven't broken into a motor with less than 70K miles. My guess is your about due for a bottom end rebuild. I've also rarely seen a M50/S50/M52/S52 head that wasn't very slightly warped, most need a bit of cutting to make true. BTW - when I took mine apart at 70K miles you could still see "S50" printed on the tops of the pistons - but probably 30K of those miles were race miles so very little carbon build up was present. -----Original Message----- From: Mark Duckworth [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 7:35 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:26:34 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Head Gasket - Head Off Hey guys, I have yet to do any measurements but hopefully I didn't damage the head with my ridiculously stupid pulling. I'm told that if I did and the core is unusable, that it's an $800 mistake. Because of the money I'm saving I think it's a mistake I can afford but hopefully the cold aluminum just didn't bend under human strength. My personal opinion is that what would have bent is the last bolt itself. The bolt is straight as an arrow however. The metal alignment guides seem unharmed. The head really didn't budge at all when we were pulling on it. I still feel pretty stupid though :-/ The head is off and sitting on wood. I took pictures of each cylinder. The valve cover had two little nuts on either end in the middle that I didn't take off. These broke getting the valve cover off, however I don't see where the actual break is on the valve cover. They look fine to me. Also if you look at one of the spark plug channels, one of the pieces of plastic decided to stay on there. I'm really not sure if I need a new valve cover as a result or not. I think possibly not. I was hoping the experienced guys could do a visual evaluation of the cylinders and let me know just how bad this is or isn't. I figure some carbon buildup is normal but number 6 looks kind of strangely oily. Number 1 has a lot of material in general kind of flaked up. The pictures of the pistons below are huge and you can zoom in majorly on them. I am going to take cylinder bore measurements once I pick a tool and I think that will be the final determination on whether or not a bottom end rebuild is. I'm really crossing my fingers hoping I could get 100,000 miles out of the bottom end. I think by the time I'm there I'll have enough money to put a race engine in and build a race car. I noticed you can physically move the pistons in the bore slightly from side to side (looking from the front). Is that normal or is that a sign of serious out of roundness? They all seem to match in terms of movement. Keep in mind this was a good running non-smoking low oil burning engine. http://picasaweb.google.com/evaporated/M3HeadGasketRepair The new pics are the ones starting of the head on the floor. Thanks, Mark ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.3/642 - Release Date: 1/20/2007 10:31 PM
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. Re: [Fwd: [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off] - from Mark Duckworth
Top
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 01:33:23 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off] I might have mislead you, this engine has 180,000 and I'm hoping to get 280,000 with suspension changes and a new clutch later on :-P This is before I need a bottom end rebuild. I've resolved though that I have to take it easier on this car though so maybe it's possible. It's garage kept so everything is in incredibly good condition, and lots of the miles are highway miles. I mean a ton of them. One thing I never got a response about. Did BMW ever use the spot welded thin metal impeller Graf water pump in 1996 or did they use plastic? Or did they use the cast metal impeller pump? I'm trying to establish if I can trust my service records or not. My water pump looks awfully nice for 180,000. In fact everything does. I'm very suspicious these days. I wonder if this car had a shift of death at 50K miles or something and has a newer engine. Thanks, Mark On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 22:59 -0500, Ed MacVaugh wrote: > That engine looks very like mine at 100K miles. It went back together > well and is now at 165K running flawlessly. > > Be incredibly careful cleaning the head surface, send the injectors off > for cleaning (that is what I attribute the modest difference in > appearance of the piston heads). See if you can have the valves ground > while the head is off. > > The plastic piece between the spark plug holes is likely a gasket. They > will be in your head gasket set. > > When I did mine, I just assumed I was as smart as Hans and Fritz when > they assembled the engine and forced nothing. If you need to force > anything, something isn't right. > > Contact me if you need help assembling the Vanos when you're putting it > back together. > > Ed > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [E36M3] Head Gasket - Head Off > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:34:44 -0600 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Reply-To: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > > Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:26:34 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Head Gasket - Head Off > > Hey guys, > > I have yet to do any measurements but hopefully I didn't damage the head > with my ridiculously stupid pulling. I'm told that if I did and the > core is unusable, that it's an $800 mistake. Because of the money I'm > saving I think it's a mistake I can afford but hopefully the cold > aluminum just didn't bend under human strength. My personal opinion is > that what would have bent is the last bolt itself. The bolt is straight > as an arrow however. The metal alignment guides seem unharmed. The > head really didn't budge at all when we were pulling on it. I still > feel pretty stupid though :-/ > > The head is off and sitting on wood. I took pictures of each cylinder. > The valve cover had two little nuts on either end in the middle that I > didn't take off. These broke getting the valve cover off, however I > don't see where the actual break is on the valve cover. They look fine > to me. Also if you look at one of the spark plug channels, one of the > pieces of plastic decided to stay on there. I'm really not sure if I > need a new valve cover as a result or not. I think possibly not. > > I was hoping the experienced guys could do a visual evaluation of the > cylinders and let me know just how bad this is or isn't. I figure some > carbon buildup is normal but number 6 looks kind of strangely oily. > Number 1 has a lot of material in general kind of flaked up. The > pictures of the pistons below are huge and you can zoom in majorly on > them. I am going to take cylinder bore measurements once I pick a tool > and I think that will be the final determination on whether or not a > bottom end rebuild is. I'm really crossing my fingers hoping I could > get 100,000 miles out of the bottom end. I think by the time I'm there > I'll have enough money to put a race engine in and build a race car. > > I noticed you can physically move the pistons in the bore slightly from > side to side (looking from the front). Is that normal or is that a sign > of serious out of roundness? They all seem to match in terms of > movement. Keep in mind this was a good running non-smoking low oil > burning engine. > > http://picasaweb.google.com/evaporated/M3HeadGasketRepair > > The new pics are the ones starting of the head on the floor. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > >