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#1. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle - from marty
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:13:54 -0500 From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle I think that's where you use the Hylomar sealer. It goes on the corners of the half-moon shaped cutouts, across timing cover to head joint, etc. Permatex makes some, sounds like Wurth does too. I don't know the difference between Hylomar and RTV except I think Hylomar never really dries or sets up. Hylomar seems to be what BMW uses so that's what I've used. marty 96 M3 - strategically placed Hylomar sealant under cam cover gaskets 95 540i - ditto Mark Duckworth wrote: > <snip/> > As for the RTV, you're supposed to use a small amount on the timing > chain cover, and I think in other places. > > Thanks, > Mark >
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#2. Possible Block Work? - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:00:10 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Possible Block Work? Hey guys, As you know I'm in the middle of detailed emails/pics of my head gasket job. Hopefully it's not obnoxious to you guys :-P I dropped the head off at VAC Motorsports today and had a rather lengthy conversation with their engine builder. He told me that with 180,000 miles if the edges of the pistons are clean it means oil is seeping through. He said more often than he'd like, he has people that come back sometimes within days telling them the car is smoking and blaming it on the valve job. He said it always turns out that the newly done head is producing more compression which causes the rings to wear out faster. As such he seemed to think it was important that while I had the head off, I remove the block and at least get new piston rings. On the pics of my pistons, you can see that there are some tiny portions of clean piston around the edge. He said that's oil coming up through and cleaning the edges and that it may get worse fast. The only cylinder which I believe to be real bad is number 6. I suggested that I could drive the car until it starts consuming too much oil/smoking and then park it until I can afford the bottom but he reminded me of the cost of the head bolts and gasket set which by the time you're done almost pays for a set of rings. The way he was talking suggested that if I got the rings done the engine could last another 200,000 miles but I don't want to buy that seeing plenty of failed rod bearings in the past. The way he was talking also suggested that if I let the car burn oil it will more or less ruin the head work I am paying for. In the end he sounded as if I am taking a huge gamble doing the head alone and I may not get as much life as I want out of it. If anything sounds outrageous, please understand that I could have misunderstood him. This is a street car only, generally highway cruised at 85-90MPH, 3,500-4,000 RPM. Wondering what your opinions are. I was hoping to put this back together and get 40,000 to 60,000 miles out of it. To get the block out I need a cherry picker and would prefer to do work like that on a lift, neither of which I have. My garage is too small. The job necessitates in my opinion having the car towed as is to a shop to remove the block, then having them reinstall the block, towing it back to my house to reinstall the head. Worth it or no? I don't really know. Thanks, Mark
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#3. Re: Head Gasket - from Neil Maller
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:49:16 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Head Gasket on 1/24/07 11:24 AM, Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > I've decided that barring horrible > measurements I am leaving the bottom end alone. The rationale is as > follows: I think you're exactly right: replace the failed parts and other stuff that's both cheap and easier while you're in there, plus cooling system parts that are known failure items and can have expensive consequences. Leave the big ticket items for when, or even if, they fail. (The M3 bottom end is very robust.) > Just some more notes, as said in the previous email I'm taking head to > VAC motorsports for a $899 head reconditioning + $100 fee for removal > and installation of the cams. VAC is a high end race shop that is known for doing quality work on BMW's. I'm sure they're not the cheapest, but I doubt you'll be disappointed. > Questions: > Besides a shopvac, how do you clean out the threads of the head > bolt holes. Blow them clean with an air gun, or make a spill out of shop towel and clean them by hand. Or use Q-tips. If you don't have an air compressor for the air gun, use a cheap portable tank. > If I use a tap, which size do I use? Any and all > information is welcome on procedure. Never used a tap/die before. Definitely don't do that! Ordinary hand taps cut a fairly loose fitting thread, and chances are that the original is a much higher class fit. Using a tap to clean the hole will cut out metal that needs to stay there. The most I'd do would be to gently run in an oiled M10 bolt by hand if you want to test for smooth thread engagement. > When I put the head back on after reconditioning, how much coolant can I > expect to leak through the new gasket? None. However as bubble and air pockets get eliminated from the system it may take some hours of running for your coolant level in the overflow tank to stabilize. > What is the break in period? None after the first oil change. Until that change/flush take it easy. During reassembly, pour some oil over the cams so they don't start up dry. > Any special instructions? RPM limits? I plan to change the oil at 100 > miles, 500 miles, and 1000 miles to remove the old coolant and possible > contaminants. I'd do the first change much sooner, say 10-20 miles. All you need is enough heat and circulation to make sure any residual gunk is flushed. After that it's a judgment call when or if to do another early change. > Do I retorque after doing the torque angles and running the engine for a > little? Absolutely not. The head bolts are torque-to-yield. They must neither be reused nor retightened. > Once the car is running, what are the best procedures for checking for > leaks, etc. Calibrated eyeball? > And the valve cover is filled with little squares of milkshake deep in > the recesses. Cleaning will be tedious. Any tricks? Or is it just > kimwipes and time. Air gun and/or that last one. > Should the water pump really be sealed with white lithium grease or is > an RTV better? I used RTV on my chevrolet and it worked wonderfully. The water pump is sealed with an O-ring. No RTV is used. But yes, a little lube makes it go into place easier. > What is a good substitution for bmw recommended H-bond 1209 RTV? Are > they as good? Curil-T from PelicanParts.com: <http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_par t_page&please_wait=N&make=BMW&model=BE36§ion=ENGmis&page=1&bookmark=6&pa rt_number=PEL-246948> Yeah, it's good. I've used it on the timing cover, the oil pan and the diff cover. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? - from Chester Wong
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? He's telling you to just replace the rings? What about rehoning the cylinder walls; otherwise, how will you break in the new rings properly? And while you're at it, you might as well have all the main bearing bores honed and lined up properly. Aw...screw it...just send the engine off to Chuck Stickley. Chester --- Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > As you know I'm in the middle of detailed emails/pics of my head gasket > job. Hopefully it's not obnoxious to you guys :-P I dropped the head > off at VAC Motorsports today and had a rather lengthy conversation with > their engine builder. He told me that with 180,000 miles if the edges > of the pistons are clean it means oil is seeping through. He said more > often than he'd like, he has people that come back sometimes within days > telling them the car is smoking and blaming it on the valve job. He > said it always turns out that the newly done head is producing more > compression which causes the rings to wear out faster. As such he > seemed to think it was important that while I had the head off, I remove > the block and at least get new piston rings. On the pics of my pistons, > you can see that there are some tiny portions of clean piston around the > edge. He said that's oil coming up through and cleaning the edges and > that it may get worse fast. The only cylinder which I believe to be > real bad is number 6. I suggested that I could drive the car until it > starts consuming too much oil/smoking and then park it until I can > afford the bottom but he reminded me of the cost of the head bolts and > gasket set which by the time you're done almost pays for a set of rings.. > The way he was talking suggested that if I got the rings done the engine > could last another 200,000 miles but I don't want to buy that seeing > plenty of failed rod bearings in the past. The way he was talking also > suggested that if I let the car burn oil it will more or less ruin the > head work I am paying for. In the end he sounded as if I am taking a > huge gamble doing the head alone and I may not get as much life as I > want out of it. If anything sounds outrageous, please understand that I > could have misunderstood him.
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#5. Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:18:45 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? That was kind of what I was thinking :-P Just the head work then for now. Thanks, Mark On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 11:04 -0800, Chester Wong wrote: > He's telling you to just replace the rings? What about rehoning the cylinder > walls; otherwise, how will you break in the new rings properly? And while > you're at it, you might as well have all the main bearing bores honed and lined > up properly. Aw...screw it...just send the engine off to Chuck Stickley. > > Chester > > --- Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > As you know I'm in the middle of detailed emails/pics of my head gasket > > job. Hopefully it's not obnoxious to you guys :-P I dropped the head > > off at VAC Motorsports today and had a rather lengthy conversation with > > their engine builder. He told me that with 180,000 miles if the edges > > of the pistons are clean it means oil is seeping through. He said more > > often than he'd like, he has people that come back sometimes within days > > telling them the car is smoking and blaming it on the valve job. He > > said it always turns out that the newly done head is producing more > > compression which causes the rings to wear out faster. As such he > > seemed to think it was important that while I had the head off, I remove > > the block and at least get new piston rings. On the pics of my pistons, > > you can see that there are some tiny portions of clean piston around the > > edge. He said that's oil coming up through and cleaning the edges and > > that it may get worse fast. The only cylinder which I believe to be > > real bad is number 6. I suggested that I could drive the car until it > > starts consuming too much oil/smoking and then park it until I can > > afford the bottom but he reminded me of the cost of the head bolts and > > gasket set which by the time you're done almost pays for a set of rings. > > The way he was talking suggested that if I got the rings done the engine > > could last another 200,000 miles but I don't want to buy that seeing > > plenty of failed rod bearings in the past. The way he was talking also > > suggested that if I let the car burn oil it will more or less ruin the > > head work I am paying for. In the end he sounded as if I am taking a > > huge gamble doing the head alone and I may not get as much life as I > > want out of it. If anything sounds outrageous, please understand that I > > could have misunderstood him. > > >
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? - from Tom Melton
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:37:57 -0500 From: "Tom Melton" <Tom.Melton@emoryhealthcare.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? I cannot blame VAC for setting expectations. Think of working on your engine similar to a doctor working on a patient. The doctor tells the patient up front what they will be looking at if surgery is performed, vs not performed. Expectations are set up front. If the patient has a 100% recovery when the expectation was set at 50%, the patient is ecstatic. If the results match the expectation, the patient, likely not happy has no complaints with the doctor. VAC is just covering all bases. Would it be best to do more - surely. What will your outcome be - people can only predict. As to VAC saying re-ring - I am sure they meant to do a proper re-ring which would include the proper honing, etc. Heck, I have heard some people say if you remove the rod cap that you need to replace the rod bearings, no matter what, and they will cite this and that case as to a damaged motor due to a spun rod bearing when it was not done. Again, your mileage may vary, etc, etc, etc. -Tom >>> Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> 1/24/2007 2:24 PM >>> Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:18:45 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? That was kind of what I was thinking :-P Just the head work then for now. Thanks, Mark On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 11:04 -0800, Chester Wong wrote: > He's telling you to just replace the rings? What about rehoning the cylinder > walls; otherwise, how will you break in the new rings properly? And while > you're at it, you might as well have all the main bearing bores honed and lined > up properly. Aw...screw it...just send the engine off to Chuck Stickley. > > Chester > > --- Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > As you know I'm in the middle of detailed emails/pics of my head gasket > > job. Hopefully it's not obnoxious to you guys :-P I dropped the head > > off at VAC Motorsports today and had a rather lengthy conversation with > > their engine builder. He told me that with 180,000 miles if the edges > > of the pistons are clean it means oil is seeping through. He said more > > often than he'd like, he has people that come back sometimes within days > > telling them the car is smoking and blaming it on the valve job. He > > said it always turns out that the newly done head is producing more > > compression which causes the rings to wear out faster. As such he > > seemed to think it was important that while I had the head off, I remove > > the block and at least get new piston rings. On the pics of my pistons, > > you can see that there are some tiny portions of clean piston around the > > edge. He said that's oil coming up through and cleaning the edges and > > that it may get worse fast. The only cylinder which I believe to be > > real bad is number 6. I suggested that I could drive the car until it > > starts consuming too much oil/smoking and then park it until I can > > afford the bottom but he reminded me of the cost of the head bolts and > > gasket set which by the time you're done almost pays for a set of rings. > > The way he was talking suggested that if I got the rings done the engine > > could last another 200,000 miles but I don't want to buy that seeing > > plenty of failed rod bearings in the past. The way he was talking also > > suggested that if I let the car burn oil it will more or less ruin the > > head work I am paying for. In the end he sounded as if I am taking a > > huge gamble doing the head alone and I may not get as much life as I > > want out of it. If anything sounds outrageous, please understand that I > > could have misunderstood him. > > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. Head Gasket Middle - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:07:39 -0500 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Head Gasket Middle > > From: Mark Duckworth mdlkml@atari-source.com > > I've decided I'd be an idiot to not replace the following parts: head > studs, all gaskets, cam shaft sensor, crank shaft sensor, knock sensors, > tensioners and pulleys, water pump (though I'm a bit grumpy because the > old one turns out to be a metal impeller that is perfectly wonderful > looking). Well, it may be all wonderful looking, but the bearings do wear out (the typical water pump failure before we all got used to impeller explosions). How old is the old one? Questions: > I need advice on cleaning the block surface and removing the old gasket. > What is a suitable straight edge for checking flatness? I'm thinking a > large solid level from Lowes. If I use a drill head to clean, what > should I look for? Aluminum cleaning wheel? If I use solvents, which > kind. Brake clean and Scotchbrite pads are your friend. It is the safest method to avoid damage and it is effective. Avoid all power tools where the head gasket seals (use power tools on the exterior of the block if you so desire). A metal straight edge is best, you can cross check it as well. Besides a shopvac, how do you clean out the threads of the head > bolt holes. If I use a tap, which size do I use? Don't use a tap, use a thread chaser. Any and all > information is welcome on procedure. Never used a tap/die before. No time to start now. When I put the head back on after reconditioning, how much coolant can I > expect to leak through the new gasket? None you hope. What is the break in period? Basically none since you aren't rebuilding the bottom end. Any special instructions? RPM limits? Nope. I plan to change the oil at 100 miles, 500 miles, and 1000 miles to remove > the old coolant and possible contaminants. That is certainly cautious, once would do the trick to ensure you get everything out. Do I retorque after doing the torque angles and running the engine for a > little? Nope, not with the stock parts. Be sure you follow the TIS instructions for torquing the head (wash and oil bolts, etc.). Once the car is running, what are the best procedures for checking for > leaks, etc. Put your head under the car? :-) And the valve cover is filled with little squares of milkshake deep in > the recesses. Cleaning will be tedious. Any tricks? Or is it just > kimwipes and time. Brake clean is your friend. Should the water pump really be sealed with white lithium grease or is > an RTV better? RTV is fine. My preference is Permatex "Right Stuff". What is a good substitution for bmw recommended H-bond 1209 RTV? Are > they as good? For what? From: Mark Duckworth mdlkml@atari-source.com > > Apparently just valve guides. > > > > Almost $1K to rebuild a S50 head for street driving? Dang. Seems high to > me. > > Is that all labor? What new parts are you getting for that price? Yowza, that is quite the price for convenience. Regards, Rich
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#8. RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? - from Marco
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:33:06 -0800 From: "Marco" <m3driver@iname.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? Yes VAC is covering their bases since what the diagnosed as will happen (new head causing bottom end problems) is actually likely to occur. The fact that the pistons are sloppy in the bore is an indication that there is blow by occurring, maybe not much yet, but some. Slapping a brandy new head on top of the worn bottom end is asking for problems. I also understand your financial predicament and the lack of work space. Another thing to take into account is will the car pass smog check if it's blowing smoke like VAC thinks it will end up doing. Frankly any good engine builder will have told you the same thing. Do what your budget can afford and good luck. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Mark Duckworth [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:25 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:18:45 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Possible Block Work? That was kind of what I was thinking :-P Just the head work then for now. Thanks, Mark On Wed, 2007-01-24 at 11:04 -0800, Chester Wong wrote: > He's telling you to just replace the rings? What about rehoning the > cylinder walls; otherwise, how will you break in the new rings > properly? And while you're at it, you might as well have all the main > bearing bores honed and lined up properly. Aw...screw it...just send > the engine off to Chuck Stickley. > > Chester > > --- Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > > As you know I'm in the middle of detailed emails/pics of my head > > gasket job. Hopefully it's not obnoxious to you guys :-P I dropped > > the head off at VAC Motorsports today and had a rather lengthy > > conversation with their engine builder. He told me that with > > 180,000 miles if the edges of the pistons are clean it means oil is > > seeping through. He said more often than he'd like, he has people > > that come back sometimes within days telling them the car is smoking > > and blaming it on the valve job. He said it always turns out that > > the newly done head is producing more compression which causes the > > rings to wear out faster. As such he seemed to think it was > > important that while I had the head off, I remove the block and at > > least get new piston rings. On the pics of my pistons, you can see > > that there are some tiny portions of clean piston around the edge. > > He said that's oil coming up through and cleaning the edges and that > > it may get worse fast. The only cylinder which I believe to be real > > bad is number 6. I suggested that I could drive the car until it > > starts consuming too much oil/smoking and then park it until I can > > afford the bottom but he reminded me of the cost of the head bolts > > and gasket set which by the time you're done almost pays for a set > > of rings. The way he was talking suggested that if I got the rings > > done the engine could last another 200,000 miles but I don't want to > > buy that seeing plenty of failed rod bearings in the past. The way > > he was talking also suggested that if I let the car burn oil it will > > more or less ruin the head work I am paying for. In the end he > > sounded as if I am taking a huge gamble doing the head alone and I > > may not get as much life as I want out of it. If anything sounds > > outrageous, please understand that I could have misunderstood him. > > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 1/23/2007 8:40 PM
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#9. door plugs - from Brian Ruiz
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:26:45 -0800 From: "Brian Ruiz" <eurowerke@gmail.com> Subject: door plugs Hey all, This sounds dumb but just hang on: Does anyone have the part number for part 10 here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF93&mospid=47486&btnr=41_0842&hg=41&fg=40 (Aside, methinks the diagram is a bit wrong on there, as it shows an oval shaped piece instead of circular [unless the 4 door models have an oval shaped cap?]) In any case, I ordered 4 of that very part, and although they are circular, either I got the wrong part with the correct number, or it is actually the wrong number for this piece. The diameter of the caps I received was too small to fit in the holes in the bottom of my door. As you all very well know, there are TONS of other circular blind plugs on the car of varying diameters, and unfortunately, I do not have any metric way of measuring these holes in my door (I need a metric tape). As such, I am asking your help to help me track down the correct size...if someone has the correct part number, please send it, or if not, I am asking if maybe, someone could measure their holes for me (hrm, that doesn't sound so good ;) ). There is a page of various other blind plugs and their part numbers here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF93&mospid=47486&btnr=51_2049&hg=51&fg=80 but again, I have no idea which one it should be (although I'm guessing either 22mm or 25mm). The caps are manufactured by TRW. Thank you, chaps! Brian build 8/95
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#10. Re: [E36M3] door plugs - from Brian Ruiz
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:54:33 -0800 From: "Brian Ruiz" <eurowerke@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] door plugs Graeme, Yeah, but since this is down to 2 millimeters making a difference, I didn't want to estimate. 2mm is about 7/100 inch, a length not precisely identifiable in English units. I guess I could try though... :-P Thanks, Brian On 1/25/07, Weston-Lewis, Graeme <Graeme.Weston-Lewis@lsi.com> wrote: > > Brian Ruiz said: "I need a metric tape". > > Brian, > Can't you simply measure using whatever units you have and convert to > metric? 25.4mm = 1". > > Good Luck, > Graeme > > >
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#11. Oxygen sensor - from L R
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 08:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: L R <lhrc51@yahoo.com> Subject: Oxygen sensor The oxygen sensor on the '95 M3 tripped the check engine light the other day & I need to replace it. I assume it's a pretty straightforward job, do you get these from the dealer or are there other sources for it? TIA, Luis E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> wrote: ************************************************************** E36M3 List - Forum for Discussion of E36M3 Series Automobiles ************************************************************** BMWMPower on the Web: http://www.bmw-m.net ************************************************************** This digest contains the following messages: 1. Re: Injector Cleaning by: Neil Maller 2. Re: [E36M3] Re: Injector Cleaning by: Chester Wong 3. Re: Subframe Bushing R&R (stock class race preparation) by: Stan Shaw 4. Re: [E36M3] Doesn't that say something... by: Marc Plante 5. Re: Head Gasket by: M3buzz 6. Re: [E36M3] Re: Head Gasket by: Mark Duckworth 7. Head Gasket Middle by: Mark Duckworth 8. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle by: David Thomas 9. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle by: Mark Duckworth 10. Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle by: Mark Duckworth -------------------- 1 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:11:00 -0500 From: Neil Maller Subject: Re: Injector Cleaning on 1/23/07 1:54 PM, Mark Duckworth wrote: > Vanos seems to be the most troublesome part of the whole ordeal. Anyone > can tighten down some bolts but that vanos timing looks interesting :-P Yeah, it's sort of tricky rather than hard as such. A very good pro mechanic initially got it wrong (one tooth off) when installing my cams. I got it right during the head gasket install, but I had marked the parts beforehand and took a lot of time double checking on reassembly. OBD-II will tell you promptly if it's wrong... Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD -------------------- 2 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 11:35:39 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Injector Cleaning OBD-II will not tell you if it's wrong if your timing is slightly retarded. Best way to check is by using a combination of a depth gauge, cam locators, VANOS solenoid energizer and compressed air to actuate the VANOS while turning the engine by the crank. Chester --- Neil Maller wrote: > Yeah, it's sort of tricky rather than hard as such. A very good pro mechanic > initially got it wrong (one tooth off) when installing my cams. I got it > right during the head gasket install, but I had marked the parts beforehand > and took a lot of time double checking on reassembly. > > OBD-II will tell you promptly if it's wrong... -------------------- 3 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 15:31:30 -0500 From: "Stan Shaw" Subject: Re: Subframe Bushing R&R (stock class race preparation) >Not me. Speaking as one who has a bolt-in rollbar I'd recommend a welded-in >cage. The amount of extra stiffness that gives to the chassis is amazing.. > >I wonder how many track equipped cars do get returned to street duty and/or >sold? (That's right, only driven at weekends, ma'am.) Could be wrong, but I >suspect not all that many. They probably get too beat up, or sold as track >cars or race car projects. Well, for BMW CCA Club Racing a welded in cage is now required, so my bolt in cage will be welded thus gaining additional stiffness. My car has 160k miles on it with mods that have been there for many tens of thousand miles, so if it were ever sold (unlikely) it would be sold as a track/race car. Having the option of driving it on the street would be nice, and while I suspect I might chance taking it on the street once in a while with the roll cage installed. I recognize that helmets are a required safety item for a car with a roll cage, and suspect the police would not favor my driving on the streets with a helmet. So the welded in cage basically makes it an unsafe street car... Regards, Stan Shaw Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net Phone: (413) 599-0399 Fax: (413) 599-0421 Excell.Net Owner/Operator http://www.Excell.Net/ 928 Owners Club President http://www.928OC.org/ 928Racing.net Team Member http://www.928Racing.net/ "Liberty once lost is lost forever." - John Adams -------------------- 4 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 20:55:40 -0500 From: "Marc Plante" Subject: Re: [E36M3] Doesn't that say something... I'm trying to remember who posted to the old Welty digest a list of, "No, I'm not a loser car geek..." that then followed with a long list of details including, "So, I was having a beer with my mechanic the other day..." It mentioned other idiosyncracies we find normal like, "standing in a hot parking lot all day long for three 40 second runs through cones." It was a Steve... Someone from the Mid Atlantic area (Phila?) Anyone else out there remember this bit? Too much trivia in my head. Marc Plante 1997 E36 M3/4 75k 2005 Child (15 mos) -------------------- 5 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:29:26 -0500 From: "M3buzz" Subject: Re: Head Gasket Hey Mark - glad the head came off, great pic series too. Good luck with the job, keep us posted! Wondering if you're considering any of the following while you have as much off the car as you do: Engine- higher flow injectors, cams, pullies, new belts. Intake - M50 manifold, ASC delete, CAI, 3.5"HFM. Cooling - fan delete, aluminum radiator (esp if that is a hole!), HD water pump, definitely an aluminum thermostat cover, new thermostat, new fan switch, new hoses everywhere. PS - clean reservoir, tighten or replace clamps, since they probably leak, then new fluid (when was last change!). You certainly would have it easier than most that do those upgrades, since all you'd have is reassembly! Also curious as to what you do to the valves and pistons at this point? Do they get replaced? Cleaned and adjusted? probably the latter, but wondering what most do with the opportunity of having the head off the car! Port and polish time?! Anyway, best of luck with the rest of the job!! Tom > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 > From: Mark Duckworth > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope > I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I > especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't > move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. > We shall see. > > Thanks, > Makr -------------------- 6 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:13:04 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Head Gasket Hello, I've pondered this long and hard seriously. What to do, what to do. The car has 180,000 miles. Well the bottom end doesn't appear to be in that bad of shape, except for the last cylinder which still probably pales in comparison to my 3000GT. I've decided that barring horrible measurements I am leaving the bottom end alone. The rationale is as follows: No knocking or tapping, even when cold - ever. The only time I've ever heard a tap is when romping on it for extended periods of time and that's from the valve train. I've consistently used 5W-40 lubromoly full synthetic at an absolute max of 5000 miles. No exceptions. Sometimes I change the oil at 3000 miles just to make myself feel better. The car passes emissions with a huge huge margin. I'm talking no number is within 50% of max, not even the bad one, NOX I believe it was. It had a new catalytic converter installed at 60K. The car has a ton of power. On the rare occaision I find another M3, we go at it and it has never been anything other than neck and neck. Regarding performance parts, OEM has last an asburd amount of time for me, so I'm sold. OEM all the way. This isn't a race car yet. It's just way too nice still. Regarding cooling system, the car had new main hoses and new thermostat/housing installed at 165K so I'm leaving those. It also had a new radiator which I am 90% sure is failing so it's getting replaced again with or without bimmerparts help (it's less than a year old but I have no idea what warranty they have if any). The rest of the cooling system is getting replaced. Absolutely every single part except for the heater cores and valves. I know the heater cores will go at some point. But I also know I'll notice the failure immediately so it's ok, Besides in theory the heater valves should be able to close off flow to the cores to get me home. I don't know if they fully close or not. I'd hope so. The cooling system parts replaced include expansion tank, radiator, all heater hoses (they are numerous), and hoses going to the throttle body. I don't seem to have any effects of electrolysis so that's good. The entire vacuum system that I can see will be replaced. The hoses are cheap. I am going to replace the AIR valve which is right above the exhaust since my pump is noisy. Hopefully this will prolong the life. There's what appears to be exhaust residue inside the hose suggesting the failure of the valve. I've decided I'd be an idiot to not replace the following parts: head studs, all gaskets, cam shaft sensor, crank shaft sensor, knock sensors, tensioners and pulleys, water pump (though I'm a bit grumpy because the old one turns out to be a metal impeller that is perfectly wonderful looking). Regarding the head, I am taking it to VAC motorsports tomorrow. As luck would have it, they are local which means I don't have to build a jig or crate for the head and instead set it gingerly sideways on the exhaust side on a bunch of towels and cardboard boxes in my trunk, then fastened it in position with numerous bungee cords. The trip is 20 miles to south philly. We are most likely going to do a 3 angle valve job, but possibly 6 angle if the core is usable. The head will be cleaned, magnafluxed and measured. I told them I want recommendations on the cams, lifters, valves and guides. They did tell me I get new guides regardless. I told them to remove the cams themselves and they are charging me $100 for that. I know I'm probably paying more than I should but they have a name and they're local. My general opinion is because I don't have the money to completely finish yet the suspension, the seats, the clutch, the bottom end, etc, than I am doing it as absolutely inexpensively as possible where it can still be considered done right. I'm also cleaning the fuel injectors, replacing the spark plugs, replacing all filters, putting in new BMW coolant. The coolant and oil were replaced religiously more often than necessary. I'm hoping a couple years down the road my career will have taken off, I'll already have my house and I'll have some disposable income. If not, I'll just go buy a pontiac gto :-P I plan to take the result of this car and drive it to 240,000 miles or 2 years of my driving. I plan on only the clutch failing from here on. We'll see how my plans go :-P Thanks, Mark On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 21:34 -0600, M3buzz wrote: > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 22:29:26 -0500 > From: "M3buzz" > Subject: Re: Head Gasket > > Hey Mark - glad the head came off, great pic series too. Good luck with the > job, keep us posted! > > Wondering if you're considering any of the following while you have as much > off the car as you do: Engine- higher flow injectors, cams, pullies, new > belts. Intake - M50 manifold, ASC delete, CAI, 3.5"HFM. Cooling - fan > delete, aluminum radiator (esp if that is a hole!), HD water pump, > definitely an aluminum thermostat cover, new thermostat, new fan switch, new > hoses everywhere. PS - clean reservoir, tighten or replace clamps, since > they probably leak, then new fluid (when was last change!). > > You certainly would have it easier than most that do those upgrades, since > all you'd have is reassembly! > > Also curious as to what you do to the valves and pistons at this point? Do > they get replaced? Cleaned and adjusted? probably the latter, but wondering > what most do with the opportunity of having the head off the car! Port and > polish time?! > Anyway, best of luck with the rest of the job!! > Tom > > > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 21:24:17 -0500 > > From: Mark Duckworth > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket > > > > This has me worried now honestly with how much force I applied. I hope > > I didn't damage the core because I'm out another $800 if I did. And I > > especially hope I didn't damage the block. Honestly it really didn't > > move at all so hopefully not, but I suppose it's possible I twisted it. > > We shall see. > > > > Thanks, > > Makr > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > -------------------- 7 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 23:23:21 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth Subject: Head Gasket Middle Hey guys, Just some more notes, as said in the previous email I'm taking head to VAC motorsports for a $899 head reconditioning + $100 fee for removal and installation of the cams. I've begun to organize and catalog parts as best I could tonight and have some pictures of it. It's the last 5 pics in the album. http://picasaweb.google.com/evaporated/M3HeadGasketRepair Questions: I need advice on cleaning the block surface and removing the old gasket. What is a suitable straight edge for checking flatness? I'm thinking a large solid level from Lowes. If I use a drill head to clean, what should I look for? Aluminum cleaning wheel? If I use solvents, which kind. Besides a shopvac, how do you clean out the threads of the head bolt holes. If I use a tap, which size do I use? Any and all information is welcome on procedure. Never used a tap/die before. When I put the head back on after reconditioning, how much coolant can I expect to leak through the new gasket? What is the break in period? Any special instructions? RPM limits? I plan to change the oil at 100 miles, 500 miles, and 1000 miles to remove the old coolant and possible contaminants. Do I retorque after doing the torque angles and running the engine for a little? Once the car is running, what are the best procedures for checking for leaks, etc. And the valve cover is filled with little squares of milkshake deep in the recesses. Cleaning will be tedious. Any tricks? Or is it just kimwipes and time. Should the water pump really be sealed with white lithium grease or is an RTV better? I used RTV on my chevrolet and it worked wonderfully. What is a good substitution for bmw recommended H-bond 1209 RTV? Are they as good? Thanks in advance for any and all answers! I so seriously appreciate you guys. Thanks, Mark Duckworth -------------------- 8 -------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:25:14 -0800 From: David Thomas Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle On Tuesday 23 January 2007 8:24 pm, Mark Duckworth wrote: > Just some more notes, as said in the previous email I'm taking head to > VAC motorsports for a $899 head reconditioning + $100 fee for removal > and installation of the cams. I've begun to organize and catalog parts > as best I could tonight and have some pictures of it. It's the last 5 > pics in the album. Almost $1K to rebuild a S50 head for street driving? Dang. Seems high to me. Is that all labor? What new parts are you getting for that price? Dave -------------------- 9 -------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:07:32 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 23:42 -0500, Ed MacVaugh wrote: > > Should the water pump really be sealed with white lithium grease or is > > an RTV better? > > I use antifreeze to lubricate the o-ring and the thermo housing formed > rubber seal. > > I used RTV on my chevrolet and it worked wonderfully. > > > This isn't a chevrolet and it would have worked fine with antifreeze also. > > > > What is a good substitution for bmw recommended H-bond 1209 RTV? Are > > they as good? > > > Where is that used? I use hylomar from Wurth but don't recall using it > on that job. > > > > Thanks in advance for any and all answers! I so seriously appreciate > > you guys. > > First Ed, thanks for your info. I think you misunderstood about the water pump. I know you use antifreeze to lubricate the gaskets on the thermo housing, but the water pump itself is supposed to use white lithium grease and I was recommended to use RTV to seal the water pump itself on my chevrolet. I understand that they're two very different cars hence me asking. It looks like remnants of white lithium grease on the water pump I pulled out so it's probably what I want. As for the RTV, you're supposed to use a small amount on the timing chain cover, and I think in other places. Thanks, Mark -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:07:59 -0500 From: Mark Duckworth Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle Apparently just valve guides. Mark On Tue, 2007-01-23 at 23:34 -0600, David Thomas wrote: > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 21:25:14 -0800 > From: David Thomas > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Head Gasket Middle > > On Tuesday 23 January 2007 8:24 pm, Mark Duckworth wrote: > > Just some more notes, as said in the previous email I'm taking head to > > VAC motorsports for a $899 head reconditioning + $100 fee for removal > > and installation of the cams. I've begun to organize and catalog parts > > as best I could tonight and have some pictures of it. It's the last 5 > > pics in the album. > > Almost $1K to rebuild a S50 head for street driving? Dang. Seems high to me. > Is that all labor? What new parts are you getting for that price? > > Dave > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* --------------------------------- Be a PS3 game guru. 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#12. Oxygen sensor - from L R
Top
Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 09:00:11 -0800 (PST) From: L R <lhrc51@yahoo.com> Subject: Oxygen sensor The oxygen sensor on the '95 M3 tripped the check engine light the other day & I need to replace it. I assume it's a pretty straightforward job, do you get these from the dealer or are there other sources for it? TIA, Luis --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.