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#1. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from David Thomas
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:56:17 -0800 From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs On Tuesday 06 February 2007 12:44 pm, David Michael wrote: > > Jim Said: > > >AIUI, that's an issue with the Koni's, not the GC RSMs. Most aftermarket > > >RSMs require the removal/non-use of the center sleeve in order to > > >accomodate the larger diameter shaft of the Koni's, AFAIK. > > Interesting, but it begs the question - why do the OEM RSMs with the center > sleeve work with Konis? > > Dave My GC RSM's came with two sets of bushings, one for Koni's, one for everything else. Neither of them had any insert in them, you just don't need one, you just torque them to about 13 ft lbs and they are set. Dave T
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#2. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from David Ngo
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:00:04 -0800 (PST) From: David Ngo <rudngo@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs I believe the larger 12mm Koni shaft is on the top adjustable or double adjustable Konis only. IIRC the regular SA Konis have the same diameter shaft as stock. Dave ----- Original Message ---- From: David Michael <adavidmichael@gmail.com> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2007 3:44:17 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:40:04 -0500 From: "David Michael" <adavidmichael@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs > > > Jim Said: > >AIUI, that's an issue with the Koni's, not the GC RSMs. Most aftermarket > >RSMs require the removal/non-use of the center sleeve in order to > >accomodate the larger diameter shaft of the Koni's, AFAIK. Interesting, but it begs the question - why do the OEM RSMs with the center sleeve work with Konis? Dave ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport..com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#3. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from Robert Brooks
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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 14:04:24 -0700 From: Robert Brooks <m3rb@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs > > >>Jim Said: >> >> >>>AIUI, that's an issue with the Koni's, not the GC RSMs. Most aftermarket >>>RSMs require the removal/non-use of the center sleeve in order to >>>accomodate the larger diameter shaft of the Koni's, AFAIK. >>> >>> > > > >Interesting, but it begs the question - why do the OEM RSMs with the center >sleeve work with Konis? > >Dave > > > > They don't. Not with the externally adjustable ones, that is. It is only the externally adjustable ones that have the larger shaft diameter. It doesn't seem to be a problem to run without the center sleeve. I've been running Rogues that way for a couple years. You can't torque the nut to spec (43 ft-lbs, I think?) though. The rubber gets squeezed 'orribly way before that. I seem to remember getting to something less than 10 ft-lbs when the rubber bulged somewhat, & stopped there and used red Loctite.
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#4. RE: RSMs - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:04:52 -0800 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: RSMs I think the difference is internally adjustable vs.. externally adjustable Koni shock configurations. The externally adjustable have a larger shaft diameter to accommodate the external adjuster, requiring a different RSM. KLB -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 15:40:04 -0500 From: "David Michael" <adavidmichael@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs > Jim Said: > >AIUI, that's an issue with the Koni's, not the GC RSMs. Most > >aftermarket RSMs require the removal/non-use of the center sleeve in > >order to accomodate the larger diameter shaft of the Koni's, AFAIK. Interesting, but it begs the question - Why do the OEM RSMs with the center sleeve work with Konis? Dave
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#5. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:08:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs On Tue, February 6, 2007 1:04 pm, David Thomas said: > My GC RSM's came with two sets of bushings, one for Koni's, one for > everything > else. Neither of them had any insert in them, you just don't need one, you > just torque them to about 13 ft lbs and they are set. Ahh, that makes sense. Jim Bassett
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#6. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:10:50 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs On Tue, February 6, 2007 1:04 pm, David Ngo said: > I believe the larger 12mm Koni shaft is on the top adjustable or double > adjustable Konis only. IIRC the regular SA Konis have the same diameter > shaft as stock. Doh! You're right - the issue I had briefly was with a set of externally-adjustable Konis. The "old" non-ext-adjust Konis were not a problem (again, IIRC :-)). Jim Bassett
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#7. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from David Michael
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:13:12 -0500 From: "David Michael" <adavidmichael@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs On 2/6/07, David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> wrote: > > > > >On Tuesday 06 February 2007 12:44 pm, David Michael wrote: > >> > Jim Said: > >> > >AIUI, that's an issue with the Koni's, not the GC RSMs. Most > aftermarket > >> > >RSMs require the removal/non-use of the center sleeve in order to > >> > >accomodate the larger diameter shaft of the Koni's, AFAIK. > >> > >> Interesting, but it begs the question - why do the OEM RSMs with the > center > >> sleeve work with Konis? > >> > >> Dave > > >My GC RSM's came with two sets of bushings, one for Koni's, one for > everything > >else. Neither of them had any insert in them, you just don't need one, > you > >just torque them to about 13 ft lbs and they are set. That's exactly what I did not like about them. While peoples experience may show it to be OK, I did not like that I could not tighten the shock nut against a hard stop; In general, tightening fasteners against compliant components with no "stop" is not good engineering practice. Dave
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#8. Re: [E36M3] RSMs - from David Thomas
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 13:17:14 -0800 From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RSMs On Tuesday 06 February 2007 1:13 pm, David Michael wrote: > That's exactly what I did not like about them. While peoples experience may > show it to be OK, I did not like that I could not tighten the shock nut > against a hard stop; In general, tightening fasteners against compliant > components with no "stop" is not good engineering practice. > > Dave Perhaps not, but it sure seems more than sufficient for this application. I have run RSM's on my E30's with the same setup 'forever' and never had an issue. Dave
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#9. RE: [E36M3] Sunbelt Cams - from James Clay
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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 16:19:45 -0500 From: "James Clay" <james@bimmerworld.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunbelt Cams The y pipe is the killer. Honestly, I would go with 96+ cats or a Track Pipe before any sort of cams. The Sunbelts are easier on the driveline and do make more power, but the Schricks worked for years (you may be able to locate a used set?). PS - there is a dynop on our site under OBDII cam kit of a stock car with this kit, stock exhaust, 96+. That is the general trend or should be of the output. James Clay http://www.bimmerworld.com http://www.bimmerworldracing.com http://www.powerflexusa.com Race Proven BMW Performance 877.639.9648 -----Original Message----- From: Patrick Kelly [mailto:pkelly@agincourtcapital.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 12:18 PM To: james@bimmerworld.com; 'Jon Siccardi - Treehouse'; 'E36M3' Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunbelt Cams So, what's the best choice--Schrick or Sunbelt--on a '95M3, assuming: 1) Just cams (w/ Euro HFM, 24# injectors, chip, CAI) 2) Cams+3.2L manifold/Y-pipe/cat And lastly, which is it--the exhaust manifold, the Y-pipe, or the cat--that creates the restriction on the '95s (i.e., which to replace first, if given the choice). <grumble> I thought this was plug and play </grumble> Pat Kelly~ pkelly@agincourtcapital.com > -----Original Message----- > From: James Clay [mailto:james@bimmerworld.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:22 AM > To: 'Jon Siccardi - Treehouse'; 'Patrick Kelly'; 'E36M3' > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Sunbelt Cams > > Martin's cams are somewhat of an enigma. I have seen the dyno in the past, > and it could be a torque hole caused by an exhaust system. But at that > point in the RPM, it is pretty odd. The Vanos should be switching well > before then unless it is a lazy unit. Or there could be some other issue > going on. We would be happy to look at it here. > > The Sunbelt cams are an out of the box solution for the OBD-II cars. OBD I > cars suffer from a very restrictive cat that simply won't let the engine > flow air, cams or not. Upgrading this to a 96+ unit, track pipe, etc will > help a ton and we have tuning for either. > > James Clay > http://www.bimmerworld.com > http://www.bimmerworldracing.com > http://www.powerflexusa.com > Race Proven BMW Performance > 877.639.9648
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#10. Re: RSMs - from Neil Maller
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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2007 16:36:35 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: RSMs on 2/6/07 3:54 PM, David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> wrote: > The GC RMS's have a much larger footprint while the Rouge [Rogue] units seem > to be the same size as the OEM RSM's. > > http://www.rogueengineering.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/suspension/rsm/re_ > rsm_300.jpg > > http://www.ground-control-store.com/images/fullsize/bmwmountfull_fs.jpg I posted a review of the Rogue RSM's in July 2004, see Digest #3812. There were couple of things I especially liked about them: on 7/15/04 3:38 PM, Neil Maller at neil.maller@gte.net wrote: > The inner steel sleeve and the upper and lower washers are stainless steel. > Those of use who live in areas with real weather and who have removed the rear > shocks know that these parts have a tendency to corrode themselves onto the > shock shaft. Using stainless is a thoughtful touch. > > A unique feature is the machined relief around the bushing recess on the > underside of the main RSM body. This provides clearance for the lower thrust > washer so that it doesn't smack into the RSM and make noise. It also allows > for easier angular motion of the shock as the suspension travels, but without > compromising bushing stiffness. I liked them a good bit more than my previous GC RSM's, which had some flaws. However it appears that GC has substantially redesigned their product since then: <http://www.ground-control-store.com/products/description.php/II=7/CA=9>. Anyone actually seen and touched the new ones? The RE RSM's are still on the car and still make no noise, so they've definitely proven to be durable. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD