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#1. Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 13:35:06 -0700 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <e36m3@kshephard.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? I suspect the water flow path and volume. The T-stat is in the head/block and the housing has two hose connections. The T-stat isn't simply restricting the flow. On old 'merican cars there was a single hose from the housing from/to the block. It was simply there to control the flow through the block. Our T-stat has different functionality. Kent On Apr 13, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Bill Sharp wrote: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:23:21 -0500 > From: Bill Sharp <M3@cueframe.us> > Subject: Fwd: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? > > > Uh, why? > > Is it because the water flows too fast without some restriction? > > Tnx, > > Bill > > > 2/22/99 Coupe > > > > > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: <Jon@Treehouseracing.com> >> Date: April 13, 2007 1:20:48 AM CDT >> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? >> Reply-To: <Jon@Treehouseracing.com> >> >> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 01:14:24 -0500 >> From: <Jon@Treehouseracing.com> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? >> >>> The gutted thermostat was not the reason for you overheating. >>> >> >> >> Uh... Yes it probably was. you cannot run an M50 engine of any >> kind without a t-stat, it'll overheat. They're not like 70's >> American v8 engines that you can just pull it and it will run cooler. >> Brett? >> >> Jon >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Jon Siccardi - DM #053 >> TreehouseRacing.com >> M50conversion.com >> 615.333.9118 >> ______________________________________________ >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Dorffer" >> <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> >> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:40 AM >> Subject: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? >> >> >>> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 08:39:44 -0400 >>> From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> >>> Subject: How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? >>> >>>> >>>> From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> >>>> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling >>>> system? >>>> >>>>> So the question is track day w open thermostat or no track day. >>>> >>>> I have tried running with a gutted thermostat twice and it didn't >>>> work >>>> either time, the car overheated like crazy, it just didn't do it >>>> until >>>> the cooldown lap. Although that was right before I replaced my >>>> head >>>> gasket, hmmm - coincidence? >>> >>> >>> The gutted thermostat was not the reason for you overheating. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Rich >>> >>> >>> ************************************************* >>> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >>> >>> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >>> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >>> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >>> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >>> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >>> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >>> >>> DIGEST INFORMATION: >>> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >>> ************************************************* >>> >> >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> > > Bill > Ft. Worth > > 2/22/99 Coupe > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#2. Fault Code Question - from Foley, Brian
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:40:18 -0400 From: "Foley, Brian" <bfoley@cmpd.org> Subject: Fault Code Question Gruppe: My '97 M3/4 keeps throwing a CEL. My Peake reader has twice indicated Code #F6 "Secondary Air System too low, Cylinders #4-6". Could someone please translate for me? Is this an Oxygen Sensor going bad? A control valve? If anyone has seen this before, please advise so I'll know what to go after. Thanks, Brian Foley
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#3. Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:43:02 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? > Please explain to me how not having a thermostat in place (essentially a > gutted thermostat) will cause a motor to overheat? I was told by someone on either this or the UUC list that the coolant passes too quickly through the head with a WOT (wide open thermostat) and as a result, the heat transfer from the aluminum head to the coolant is not sufficient to cool the head properly. What happens is that you get localised hot spots inside the head which is bad. That does not of course expain the overheating. My theory on that is that at full-tilt-boogie on the track, there is enough airflow around the engine to provide additional cooling to make up for the lack of cooling because of the WOT. Additionally, at full throttle the coolant is flowing really quickly and when you slow everything down the extra built up heat in the head can transfer to the coolant because of the reduced coolant speeds and the surge of heat entering the coolant is too much for a system designed for a more regulated set of operating parameters. I was able to run a 20 minute track session with a gutted thermostat but toward the end of the cooldown lap, my car spewed coolant. It's just a theory and I am hardly an expert in thermodynamics, so go easy on me when you tear it apart guys. BTW, I am off to the track tomorrow -- April in Wisconsin, should be fun. My M3 is parked away at home though, I brought My Roadster. Regards Jamie Howton 06 M Roadster 04 645Ci 95 M3
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#4. track db trick - from bnmhead-bmw@yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:24:56 -0700 (PDT) From: <bnmhead-bmw@yahoo.com> Subject: track db trick Those of you who know or knew Carl Buckland may know he's gone over to the dark side (Porsche) - one trick thing he had on the car he was running at Laguna Seca for a while was a set of add-ons for his pipes that directed the exhaust towards the passenger side. The net result was passing their sound test - but only on the side that counted! The other side was over the limit, but it didn't matter since they only lapped one direction. Also, I remember back in the day that Carl along with Jim C. spent an inordinate amount of time and money flowbenching and looking at what could be gotten out the e36 and didn't find much left on the table. They tried Dr. Gas sychronizing crossovers, a variety of headers and exhausts, and while there were some weight savings, there really wasn't much in the way of horsepower and torque.
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#5. Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:54:22 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] How to get rid of Air pocket in cooling system? I am definitely not buying it. Anyone with a thermodynamics background can speak up though but I believe the coolant can only flow so fast through the system and the heat transfer still occurs. It may not be the most efficient method with a gutted thermostat or no thermostat, but I don't believe it is the reason the car will overheat. Regards, Rich On 4/13/07, Jamie Howton <jhowton@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Please explain to me how not having a thermostat in place (essentially a > > gutted thermostat) will cause a motor to overheat? > > I was told by someone on either this or the UUC list that the coolant > passes too quickly through the head with a WOT (wide open thermostat) > and as a result, the heat transfer from the aluminum head to the > coolant is not sufficient to cool the head properly. What happens is > that you get localised hot spots inside the head which is bad. > > That does not of course expain the overheating. My theory on that is > that at full-tilt-boogie on the track, there is enough airflow around > the engine to provide additional cooling to make up for the lack of > cooling because of the WOT. Additionally, at full throttle the > coolant is flowing really quickly and when you slow everything down > the extra built up heat in the head can transfer to the coolant > because of the reduced coolant speeds and the surge of heat entering > the coolant is too much for a system designed for a more regulated set > of operating parameters.
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#6. [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:57:16 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa > > From: "Dave DeBuhr" <debuhr@comcast.net> > > You won't be dissapointed. One thing to note, the sound changes after > driving > it for a couple days. It must be the packing in the resonators or > something. > When I first put it on I was like, "Oh crap, this thing is friggin LOUD." > But after driving > it around a little, it quieted down quite a bit. Now I think it is just > about perfect. > > Going WOT through underpasses/tunnels is a whole new experience. :) Definitely not due to packing material as that is one of the reasons the Corsa exhaust system is so efficient: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/tse3/RSC_CUTAWAY.jpg Regards, Rich
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#7. Re: [E36M3] track db trick - from jeff.conner@yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:13:00 -0700 (PDT) From: jeff.conner@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] track db trick Not to be *that* guy, but the mic for the sound booth is on the passenger side of the car, just after the end of the exit berm of turn 5. :-) And what I've gathered from people who've tried the redirect method is that you can effectively cut 2-2.5 dB from you exhaust noise. That would take me down to a still failing 95.5 dB A friend of mine actually passed sound in his Conforti equipped Borla exhaust-ed E36 M3, and like Jim said, if his RE exhaust passes, I'm thinking i may go that route. Anyone want to trade for my wonderfully loud B&B Triflo? -jeff ----- Original Message ---- From: "bnmhead-bmw@yahoo.com" <bnmhead-bmw@yahoo.com> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:30:48 PM Subject: [E36M3] track db trick Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:24:56 -0700 (PDT) From: <bnmhead-bmw@yahoo.com> Subject: track db trick Those of you who know or knew Carl Buckland may know he's gone over to the dark side (Porsche) - one trick thing he had on the car he was running at Laguna Seca for a while was a set of add-ons for his pipes that directed the exhaust towards the passenger side. The net result was passing their sound test - but only on the side that counted! The other side was over the limit, but it didn't matter since they only lapped one direction. Also, I remember back in the day that Carl along with Jim C. spent an inordinate amount of time and money flowbenching and looking at what could be gotten out the e36 and didn't find much left on the table. They tried Dr. Gas sychronizing crossovers, a variety of headers and exhausts, and while there were some weight savings, there really wasn't much in the way of horsepower and torque. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#8. RE: [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa - from Dave DeBuhr
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Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:44:02 -0700 From: "Dave DeBuhr" <debuhr@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa Actually I'm fairly sure the resonators have packing in them... I had heard that is where the sound change happens but since Rob L. from UUC is chiming maybe he can clarify... Whatever the reason, I couldn't be happier with my RSC36 setup... -----Original Message----- From: Rich Dorffer [mailto:E36M3Digest@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:01 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 19:57:16 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: [E36M3] Re: UUC Exhaust - Corsa > > From: "Dave DeBuhr" <debuhr@comcast.net> > > You won't be dissapointed. One thing to note, the sound changes after > driving > it for a couple days. It must be the packing in the resonators or > something. > When I first put it on I was like, "Oh crap, this thing is friggin LOUD." > But after driving > it around a little, it quieted down quite a bit. Now I think it is just > about perfect. > > Going WOT through underpasses/tunnels is a whole new experience. :) Definitely not due to packing material as that is one of the reasons the Corsa exhaust system is so efficient: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/tse3/RSC_CUTAWAY.jpg Regards, Rich ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#9. Re: [E36M3] Fault Code Question - from Peter Loron
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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 12:22:59 -0700 From: "Peter Loron" <peterloron@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Fault Code Question Possibly it is your secondary air system, likely the air pump going/gone bad. I suppose it could also be the valve that allows air into the exhaust manifold. Not sure what, exactly, triggers that code. Test: unhook the hose from the air pump that leads to the manifold. Start up the car when cold, and see how much air it blows out. Should be a bunch. Mine sounds like a vacuum cleaner. :-) -Pete On 4/13/07, Foley, Brian <bfoley@cmpd.org> wrote: > > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:40:18 -0400 > From: "Foley, Brian" <bfoley@cmpd.org> > Subject: Fault Code Question > > Gruppe: > > My '97 M3/4 keeps throwing a CEL. My Peake reader has twice indicated Code > #F6 "Secondary Air System too low, Cylinders #4-6". > > Could someone please translate for me? Is this an Oxygen Sensor going bad? > A control valve? If anyone has seen this before, please advise so I'll know > what to go after. > > Thanks, > > Brian Foley > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Best brake pad for sreet use? - from Mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:35:01 EDT From: Mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Best brake pad for sreet use? In a message dated 4/13/2007 11:13:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Graeme.Weston-Lewis@lsi.com writes: The ATE Super Blue is good, but it stains ell the plastic parts - you guessed it - blue. I prefer ATE Gold. It's the exact same fluid, only without the blue dye. I alternate between the two. By them being different colors you can easily see when your brake flush is complete! cheers, Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA 2005 / 2006 Philly Region BSP Champion Sponsored by Wheel Collision Center & Rogue Engineering ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.