-------------------- 1 --------------------
#1. RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events - from Ron Kirkland
Top
Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:24:15 -0700 From: "Ron Kirkland" <ronkirkland@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events Toyo Proxes RA1 Usage Guide by Todd Swift on 12/24/2004 Here are a few basic pointers to using the Toyo RA1 DOT Race Tire: The RA1 comes molded at 8/32 of rubber, which is quite a bit of rubber for a race tire. There are two reasons for shaving. The first reason is make the tread blocks shorter. This keeps the tread from rolling over during cornering and building up too much heat. (Which can lead to chunking) This can contribute to making the car feel unstable and loose. The second reason to shave is to make the tire faster sooner. By cutting the tread down it makes the tire more responsive immediately and strangely enough also helps the tire last longer. How much to cut depends on which type of driving you intend to do. The common shave for a full race set-up is at least 4/32. For Track day events we recommend at least 6/32 shave. If you plan on using them for everyday summer driving, then leave them full skid. It is important to leave the tires with as much tread as possible for street driving in case of rain. (FYI: Full tread RA1's are used as rain tires in competition.) The Toyo RA1 unlike most compound tires doesn't require the tire to be heat cycled. You can mount them up and just run on them. . One characteristic of the RA1 is that unless you shave them to very shallow depths, the tires do take time to run in. Meaning that that if buy a set at full skid, they will not be as fast as they will be when they wear down to 4/32 and etc. The RA1 remains consistent during the life span of the tire and in most cases becomes even faster as they wear. One more thing, the RA1 wears like no other tire on the market. Compared to other compound tires, the RA1 should give you a minimum of 2-3 times the wear compared to other compound tires and even UHP Street tires. Tire pressures should be started at about 32psi cold. You shouldn't see more than a 5-7 psi gain during a run. You should end up in the high 30's to low 40's. If you take tire temps, the normal operating range of the RA1 is 160-220 degrees. These numbers are arrived at with a properly set-up car in mind. Outside temperatures may make it difficult to hit these numbers, but in general these are temps you should be seeing if you have a properly set-up car. One mistake people make is thinking that if they just mount up a set of new race rubber they will be faster. This may be true in some case and in others they may seem to make no difference. The reason for this is all race tires need to have camber adjustments made to get the optimum level of grip they can provide. Without this adjustment the tires though stickier, may not work at their best. If you have camber plates you will be able to get the most from the RA1 and any other compound tire. To get the tire to work to its maximum, you need to dial in at least 2 deg of negative camber in the front. If you have camber plates then dial in more, say upwards of 3 deg negative. (Toyo recommends between E to E deg) This is required to get the car to handle. All the other temps and pressures gains depend upon getting this setting correct. If you see wild pressure gains or temps it is probably due to a bad set-up. The tire only reflects the set-up used on the car and the driving style used by the driver. 99% of the time it is not the tires fault, but they get 99% of the blame for an ill handling or over aggressive driver. You can adjust most cars in stock form to get more negative camber, but it is limited. The drawback to doing this on a street car is you will wear the tires out very fast. To get the most life out of the Toyo RA1 you need to take care of them. First thing is if you notice one of the shoulders is wearing more quickly than the other, you need take it and have it flipped on the wheel. When it gets about half worn that is time to flip. This will greatly increase the life of the tire and even out the wear. (FYI: RA1's are only directional when used as rain tires. Once shaved, or worn down, you can run them in any direction you choose.) Next, when driving with these tires in competition, try not to overheat them in the initial run. If you feel the tires are getting a little greasy, take a trip down the pit lane, this will allow the tires to cool just enough to continue on. One note on driving, the RA1 is not as prone to flat spotting under heavy braking as other race tires; additionally it is a very forgiving tire, allowing the driver a chance to save the car if he loses control, unlike most compound tires. When storing the tires for the winter or off-season follow these simple steps. Try to keep them stored in a temperature above freezing, ideally indoors with low humidity. Take the RA1's off and put them in plastic bags for storage. Keep them dry and out of the sun and heat. Race tires are very sensitive to extreme weather, be it hot or cold. If you follow these simple guidelines you should get the performance advantages of having an R compound tire on your car. As with most guidelines, not all things work for all driving styles and conditions. These suggestions come from our over 20 years of race tire sales and support. When making adjustments based on these suggestions, please make them in small increments. I.E. don't go from 32 psi to 40psi. No more than 2 psi increments. Same for camber adjustments. Good luck. If you should have any questions please contact us at Frisby Performance Tire (sales@frisbyracetire.com or 1.800.798.7201) Copyright 2001-2003 evolutionm.net, All Rights Reserved. -----Original Message----- From: Mo Karamat [mailto:karamatm@optonline.net] Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 8:25 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:22:09 -0500 From: Mo Karamat <karamatm@optonline.net> Subject: Toyo RA1s for DE Events I agree with Gary.. Have them just slightly shaved, and then heat cycle them your self.. I do it a little different than Gary.. After driving them a bit I go to a large college parking lot by my house, and do circles for about 3-5 min in each direction, and then some figure 8's.. This heats up the tread nice and even, and then I let the car sit overnight.. Regards, Mo -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 16:01:10 -0500 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events I'd say shave them, then go heat cycle them...You can heat cycle them yourself.. Mount fresh shaved tires on your car..Go get on the interstate drive 50 miles and then come home and jack the car up so the tires are not sitting onthe ground... Now you have a set of heat cycled tires that will last slightly longer than just shaved... Gary ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
-------------------- 2 --------------------
#2. STI and such - from Richard Sperry
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:50:58 -0400 From: "Richard Sperry" <richardsperry@comcast.net> Subject: STI and such Didn't I hear that both Mitsu, and Subaru were getting copies of sanctioned auto-cross and track events, and then using that info to deny warranty claims? They figure that timed auto-cross was racing, thus abuse, hence DENIED...
-------------------- 3 --------------------
#3. Toyo RA1s for DE Events - from Robert Manger
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:48:16 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: Toyo RA1s for DE Events Along the same lines as Rich since I am about to order up a set for the same application, what is the preferred camber setting for the tire? I currently run -1.3 on both sides on H&R coilovers, do the tires need more camber to work at their best? thanks, rob Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 14:38:01 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Toyo RA1s for DE Events So, what is the consensus these days, to shave or full tread depth for the Toyo RA1 tires for DE Events? Last time, I shaved mine to 6/32" and they have lasted pretty well. Some have said that shaving them to this depth actually makes them last longer then unshaved (8/32") as the unshaved tread results in more squirm and heat and actually accelerates the wear early on. Therefore, 6/32" will last longer in total than 8/32". Any additional thoughts? Again, this is just for driving schools or lapping days, no racing. Regards, Rich CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail message and any attachments are only for the use of the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this e-mail message or attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
-------------------- 4 --------------------
#4. STi - from Vince Leo
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 06:28:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Vince Leo <m332is@yahoo.com> Subject: STi Amhad, If you asked an STi or Evo group about an E36 or E46 M3 you'd hear how expensive a BMW was to fix, own, upgrade and maintain. You'd also hear about horror stories from denied warranty claims based on after-market parts. Dedicated car groups will defend the cars they are passionate about and will pass along hear say info. The STi sounds like a nice car. I race an E36 M3 LTW with BMW CR in C Mod and love the marque, but let's be honest, we have all upgraded a lot of the weak points. Front strut towers, rear sub frames, oil pan baffles, oil pump nuts, etc. On my old E36 325i ITS/JP car, I went through 3 trannys as they are a weak link. I don't know if we will see as many 150K mile STis as we see M3s at the track, but I don't think the STi is a complete turd either. Besides, the STi will always have a market with 18 year old kids unless you remove the rear wing :) Vince Paul, Your statement about blowing tranny, turbos, motors, halfhalfshaft might be a bit overstreched. The car in my possession has 4K track miles. The only thing that went wrong was the 5th gear synchro and it was fixed with an 05 synchro. Apart from that, no half shaft or diff or tranny or turbo. Yes you do see a lot of clowns doing 6K launches and blowing things up. That's not why I bought this car or intend on doing. I needed a track worthy car that I can drive everyday for the next 6 months and it fit the bill just right. The E36 is a phenomenal car but to make it as fast as an Sti for the track, I would have to spend another $10K. Oh BTW did I mention the 5 year 60K power train warranty? Bernardo Payet (an ex CM M3 owner) got his Evo and it came with a standard 10 year/100K p/t warranty. These cars have their quirks not doubt, but its not like they will fall flat right in the middle of some turn. Expect the clutch to fail at 25K miles and I am already prepared for that. If you see last year's T2 results, these AWDs and they did quite well against the E46 M3s. I spoke to a lot of tuners and (a local dealership here did One Lap and did very well) before I got this car. I was convinced when I got a ride last year. Street tires (OEM) 225/45/17, Pagid Yellos, JIC Coilover, exhaust and flash and the car was turning 1:39s at Road ATL (by an A Group student none the less). Ahmad --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.
-------------------- 5 --------------------
#5. Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events - from Carlos Lopez
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:38:02 -0400 From: "Carlos Lopez" <clopez98m3@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events On 6/5/07, Robert Manger <Robert_Manger@mastercard.com> wrote: > Along the same lines as Rich since I am about to order up a set for the > same application, what is the preferred camber setting for the tire? I > currently run -1.3 on both sides on H&R coilovers, do the tires need more > camber to work at their best? Yes. Really you should use a tire pyrometer and a stopwatch to determine your camber setting but since most of us don't do that then we can spit out static camber settings at you. Do you have adjustable camber plates? Step one. Since I drive to and from the track I have mine marked for a street setting and a track setting. Street is minimum camber on my car which is about 2.5 deg, track setting is just a hair over 3.5-3.7. I could go beyond 4+ but I don't have the tools to tell me whether or not that's too much. Car handled really well at Mid-Ohio last weekend (especially turning in) so I'm sticking with what I have for now. Carlos 98 M3
-------------------- 6 --------------------
#6. Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events - from Robert Manger
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:45:37 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events thanks Carlos. I could just set the car up for the track as I don't really drive it on the street anymore and the times that I do, I'll just not worry about the tire wear Well that would bring up another point. I don't have adj camber plates yet, but it sounds like I need them, to that end what have people been running for adj camber plates? There seems to be a lot of buzz about the Volshag (sp?)/Motorforce plates being very good. The slope is looking a little steep at the moment, but I'm sure the slide down is nice and refreshing = -) rob "Carlos Lopez" <clopez98m3@gmail.com> 06/05/2007 09:38 AM To "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@mastercard.com> cc E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events On 6/5/07, Robert Manger <Robert_Manger@mastercard.com> wrote: > Along the same lines as Rich since I am about to order up a set for the > same application, what is the preferred camber setting for the tire? I > currently run -1.3 on both sides on H&R coilovers, do the tires need more > camber to work at their best? Yes. Really you should use a tire pyrometer and a stopwatch to determine your camber setting but since most of us don't do that then we can spit out static camber settings at you. Do you have adjustable camber plates? Step one. Since I drive to and from the track I have mine marked for a street setting and a track setting. Street is minimum camber on my car which is about 2.5 deg, track setting is just a hair over 3.5-3.7. I could go beyond 4+ but I don't have the tools to tell me whether or not that's too much. Car handled really well at Mid-Ohio last weekend (especially turning in) so I'm sticking with what I have for now. Carlos 98 M3 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This e-mail message and any attachments are only for the use of the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this e-mail message or attachments is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail message in error, please delete and notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
-------------------- 7 --------------------
#7. Re: [E36M3] STi - from Carlos Lopez
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 09:51:36 -0400 From: "Carlos Lopez" <clopez98m3@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] STi On 6/5/07, Vince Leo <m332is@yahoo.com> wrote: > If you asked an STi or Evo group about an E36 or E46 M3 you'd hear how >expensive a BMW was to fix, own, upgrade and maintain. You'd also hear about >horror stories from denied warranty claims based on after-market parts. True in the case of the LTW. :-) >Dedicated car groups will defend the cars they are passionate about and will >pass along hear say info. The STi sounds like a nice car. Nice? I don't think anyone calls it nice, fast most definitely. I thought it was a track monster actually. However a car who's wings/scoops/etc vibrate as you drive and feel like they're going to fly off isn't exactly nice. :-) > I race an E36 M3 LTW with BMW CR in C Mod and love the marque, Yeah you race a 12 year old BMW. Heck 20 year old BMWs are out there kicking azz and taking names. Ever see a 20 year old Subaru at a track event? ;-) > I don't know if we will see as many 150K mile STis as we see M3s at the track, >but I don't think the STi is a complete turd either. Not a complete one but still a turd. Just a really fast one. heh... I competed in one throughout an autox season so I'm not just repeating hearsay. I hate the sound that boxer motor makes btw. Carlos 98 M3
-------------------- 8 --------------------
#8. Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events - from Benjamin Hirsch
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 07:33:53 -0700 From: "Benjamin Hirsch" <benjamin.hirsch@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Toyo RA1s for DE Events Robert, Me 97 M3 is dedicated, and I run the following (approximately) with both Toyo RA1's and Hankook Z214 C51 Compounds... car weight: 2860 fully fueled Front Spring: 600lb Front :Ride height: 12.5" (wheel center to fender) Front Camber: -3.5 Front Caster: Max Front Toe: 1/8 toe out Rear Spring: 700lb Rear Camber: -2.5 Rear Toe: 3/16 in Rear Ride Height: 11.5" (wheel center to fender) On 6/5/07, Robert Manger <Robert_Manger@mastercard.com> wrote: > > Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:48:16 -0400 > From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> > Subject: Toyo RA1s for DE Events > > Along the same lines as Rich since I am about to order up a set for the > same application, what is the preferred camber setting for the tire? I > currently run -1.3 on both sides on H&R coilovers, do the tires need more > camber to work at their best? > > thanks, > > rob > > > > Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 14:38:01 -0400 > From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> > Subject: Toyo RA1s for DE Events > > So, what is the consensus these days, to shave or full tread depth for > the Toyo RA1 tires for DE Events? > > Last time, I shaved mine to 6/32" and they have lasted pretty well. > Some have said that shaving them to this depth actually makes them > last longer then unshaved (8/32") as the unshaved tread results in > more squirm and heat and actually accelerates the wear early on. > Therefore, 6/32" will last longer in total than 8/32". > > Any additional thoughts? Again, this is just for driving schools or > lapping days, no racing. > > Regards, > > Rich > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE > This e-mail message and any attachments are only for the use of the > intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, > confidential or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not > the intended recipient, any disclosure, distribution or other use of this > e-mail message or attachments is prohibited. If you have received this > e-mail message in error, please delete and notify the sender immediately. > Thank you. > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > -- Thanks, Ben
-------------------- 9 --------------------
#9. Bridgestone RE-01R's - from Mark Duckworth
Top
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 11:11:54 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Bridgestone RE-01R's Hey guys, Just got a set of RE-01R's and wanted to contribute a rave review. Grips better than any street tire I've had in dry and wet, confidence inspiring, firm sidewalls, low noise. I love em. Thanks, Mark
-------------------- 10 --------------------
#10. RE: [E36M3] Bridgestone RE-01R's - from Sinha, Vikas
Top
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 11:27:44 -0400 From: "Sinha, Vikas" <Vikas.Sinha@aam.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Bridgestone RE-01R's Seconded. I have 1200 miles on my set, so too early to project wear yet, but they grip like glue. I'll be taking them to the track for the first time next week; we'll see how they do. All that plus a $100 BMW CCA rebate! Vik 97 M3/4 -----Original Message----- From: Mark Duckworth [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Just got a set of RE-01R's and wanted to contribute > a rave review. Grips better than any street tire > I've had in dry and wet, confidence inspiring, firm > sidewalls, low noise. I love em.