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#1. RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Stiles
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:08:11 -0700 From: "Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue OK, now I'm curious: what does the system being pressurized when cold indicate? Mine is slightly pressurized when cold... Peter Loron wrote: > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:25:12 -0700 > From: "Peter Loron" <peterloron@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > Was the cooling system still pressurized after letting it completely cool > off? > > -Pete > >
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#2. Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Peter Loron
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 01:34:09 -0700 From: "Peter Loron" <peterloron@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue Perhaps nothing. My understanding is that if there is nothing introducing pressure into the system except for the thermal expansion of coolant, then when the system is reduced to ambient temperature, it should have roughly ambient pressure in it. In my case, it is often significantly pressurized (lots of hissing and the coolant level rises a ways in the tank), even after sitting all weekend. And I'm loosing some coolant. My current hypothesis is that there is either a new flaw in the head or I botched the head gasket install...either of which is allowing exhaust gas into the cooling system. I have access to a coolant tester, but I haven't gotten the car and tester together yet. Sigh. -Pete On 7/11/07, Stiles <stiles_s@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:08:11 -0700 > From: "Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > OK, now I'm curious: what does the system being pressurized when cold > indicate? > Mine is slightly pressurized when cold... > > Peter Loron wrote: > > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:25:12 -0700 > > From: "Peter Loron" <peterloron@gmail.com> > > Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > > > Was the cooling system still pressurized after letting it completely > cool > > off? > > > > -Pete > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from marty
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:58:26 -0400 From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue I turned the heater controls to full hot (they aren't the mechanical controls). I removed the bleeder screw and filled the expansion tank until no more bubbles came out and the tank was full. I started the car and ran it at idle for some time until and after the heater started blowing hot, squeezing hoses, waiting for no more bubbles from the loosened bleeder screw while pouring in some water to keep it near the full line. I topped it up to cold line after it cooled completely. Checked it at least once again later to make sure no bubbles were coming out. The temp gauge doesn't go above half now, except when i was out on the track. I came in off the track when I saw it rise and it immediately went back to half - part way down the pit lane. I have not heard of the 1 minute 4000 RPM burn so no, I didn't do that. So, what is the proper bleeding procedure? The Bentley manual isn't much help here. It just says fill it with heater controls open, engine not running, until bubbles stop and you're good to go. Glad I asked about this. I've never seen the gauge above half except when the water pump failed 5 months after I bought it. Right on schedule too, a tick below 60K miles, but I didn't know about that little feature at the time. Bought it eight years ago this month - how time flies. marty Mark D wrote: > Marty, > > Can you describe the steps you took to bleed it? Did you do the 4000 RPM burn for 1 minute? > You definitely don't want to be running the car at all with that temp gauge above half. Even during > the bleeding process of my head job, it didn't go above half. > > Thanks, > Mark >
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: Replacing Intake Manifold? - from marty
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:23:23 -0400 From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Replacing Intake Manifold? Steve, Bimmerworld has a coolant hose kit. I had that hose set and pieced the remainder together from the ETK and part numbers off of some of the parts removed where the ETK was incorrect (a couple of heater valve to heater core hoses iirc). When I did the intake manifold I replaced all of the hoses (coolant and vacuum) and gaskets. My knock sensors looked fine so I didn't replace them. If you need a list I can send you mine. It's for a '96 but it should be fairly close I hope (you won't need the secondary air solenoid vacuum hoses, for example). marty Steve Klein wrote: > Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:20:56 -0500 > From: Steve Klein <s.klein@steveklein.cc> > Subject: Re: Replacing Iintake Manifold? > > On a similar note, does anyone have a 'refresh' kit for the intake > manifold on a '95 S50? > > > I'm going to be replacing the head gasket in the near future and while > I've got the intake and head off I want to replace whatever gaskets > and hoses I can underneath there. > > Does either company (or another) have a kit for just that? Or do I > have to get out the ETK and piece it together? > > Thanks, > Steve >
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#5. coolant temp., e-fan..... - from tim ng
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:46:32 -0400 From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> Subject: coolant temp., e-fan..... this spring, I changed all 3 hoses to the heater core and the left and right heater valve. I "think" I got 2 of them backwards as I only get heat from the right side of the vents (above the glove box) The drivers side of the vents blow cold. Can this be? Seems to me that if I am getting heat from the right side, then my inlet hose is correct and the right side hose is also correct. Do you all think I have air bubble in the left side preventing coolant from getting there? I also removed the mech fan and in yesterdays 90+ heat with the a/c, sitting in traffice, I found out my fan switch is dead, the water temp rose to 3/4 and the fan never came on. In the e36, does the e fan come on low speed when the a/c is on? ie: like the e30's I unplugged the fan switch and got a short jumper wire and kicked the fan on high speed and drove home without any problems. Guess I either need a new switch or put in my own siwtch inside the car to turn the fan on myself. Tim Ng BMWCCA # 36497 95 BUZZNM3 dakar yella 94 325i future track car 92 325ic M-Technic pkg 91 M3 garage queen 88 M3/2.5 DM race car ------------------ project 90 535ia ------------------ Pace shadow 26 ft enclosed trailer my web page: http://groups.msn.com/M3stuff/pictures
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#6. Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Jay Hudson
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 06:49:29 -0700 From: "Jay Hudson" <jwhud@budget.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue This may have already been stated. It's been my experience that you have to bleed the system several times to get all the air out. Here's what I do. Get the car up to normal temp. Jack the front of the car up as high as you can get it. With engine running and heater on full heat, open bleed valve until no more bubbles/air come out. Close bleed valve. Rev engine to 2-3K and hold for several seconds. Re-bleed. Now let it cool completely. Check and top off coolant. Re-do bleed, cool-down, top off procedure until there is no air escaping on the first try. I've usually had to do this 2 to 3 times to get all the air out. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "marty" <mfraiser@earthlink.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:58:26 -0400 > From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > I turned the heater controls to full hot (they aren't the mechanical > controls). I removed the bleeder screw and filled the expansion tank > until no more bubbles came out and the tank was full. I started the car > and ran it at idle for some time until and after the heater started > blowing hot, squeezing hoses, waiting for no more bubbles from the > loosened bleeder screw while pouring in some water to keep it near the > full line. I topped it up to cold line after it cooled completely. > Checked it at least once again later to make sure no bubbles were coming > out. > > The temp gauge doesn't go above half now, except when i was out on the > track. I came in off the track when I saw it rise and it immediately went > back to half - part way down the pit lane. > > I have not heard of the 1 minute 4000 RPM burn so no, I didn't do that. > So, what is the proper bleeding procedure? The Bentley manual isn't much > help here. It just says fill it with heater controls open, engine not > running, until bubbles stop and you're good to go. > > Glad I asked about this. I've never seen the gauge above half except when > the water pump failed 5 months after I bought it. Right on schedule too, > a tick below 60K miles, but I didn't know about that little feature at the > time. Bought it eight years ago this month - how time flies. > > marty
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#7. RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:33:39 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 02:18 -0500, Stiles wrote: > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:08:11 -0700 > From: "Stiles" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > OK, now I'm curious: what does the system being pressurized when cold > indicate? > Mine is slightly pressurized when cold... It should maintain some pressure indicating that the system is properly sealed. Slight pressure is very good. Conversely if you have an internal leak, you will lose all pressure when cold and likely over pressurize when hot. That's why people who have head issues sometimes see coolant come from the overflow. If a new cap doesn't correct it, probably big problems sadly :-/ I had the same issue with my chevy beretta. It had a small leak between a combustion chamber and the cooling system for about 50,000 miles before the gasket went the rest of the way, but during this time the cooling system behaved strangely. If I uncapped it and started it cold, you could see the level start rising thereby not allowing you to add coolant and fully bleed it. Certainly a different case my M3 where you can start it and let it start getting pretty warm before needing to cap it to prevent overflow. The beretta also manifested itself as a system which did not want to remain cool (the temp gage jumped all over the place) and a car that wanted to overheat if any additional heat load was applied (air conditioning while stuck in traffic). Thanks, Mark
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#8. Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:38:25 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 07:58 -0500, marty wrote: > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:58:26 -0400 > From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > I turned the heater controls to full hot (they aren't the mechanical > controls). I removed the bleeder screw and filled the expansion tank > until no more bubbles came out and the tank was full. I started the > car and ran it at idle for some time until and after the heater started > blowing hot, squeezing hoses, waiting for no more bubbles from the > loosened bleeder screw while pouring in some water to keep it near the > full line. I topped it up to cold line after it cooled completely. > Checked it at least once again later to make sure no bubbles were coming > out. > I found that you have to fill exceedingly slowly. Every time you get the overflow past a certain point you'd hear gurgling deep within the head. If you fill too fast it can trap air. In my case the heater refused to blow hot until I ran the car at 4000 RPM for 1 minute. The coolant won't get up into the heater core. In my case I replaced all the heater hoses and lost a lot of coolant sitting in the system in there. You probably didn't which is why your heater started working on idle. > The temp gauge doesn't go above half now, except when i was out on the > track. I came in off the track when I saw it rise and it immediately > went back to half - part way down the pit lane. > > I have not heard of the 1 minute 4000 RPM burn so no, I didn't do that. > So, what is the proper bleeding procedure? The Bentley manual isn't > much help here. It just says fill it with heater controls open, engine > not running, until bubbles stop and you're good to go. > > Glad I asked about this. I've never seen the gauge above half except > when the water pump failed 5 months after I bought it. Right on > schedule too, a tick below 60K miles, but I didn't know about that > little feature at the time. Bought it eight years ago this month - how > time flies. So to summarize it sounds like you bled it right, the 4000 RPM thing is unnecessary since you clearly have coolant flowing through the heater core (which I didn't). I'd check for combustion residues in the coolant to ensure that's not your issue. If it isn't it might have just been really freaking hot on the track? Thanks, Mark
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#9. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:43:12 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... On Wed, 2007-07-11 at 09:08 -0500, tim ng wrote: > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:46:32 -0400 > From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> > Subject: coolant temp., e-fan..... > > this spring, I changed all 3 hoses to the heater core and the left and right > heater valve. I "think" I got 2 of them backwards as I only get heat from > the right side of the vents (above the glove box) The drivers side of the > vents blow cold. Can this be? Seems to me that if I am getting heat from the > right side, then my inlet hose is correct and the right side hose is also > correct. Do you all think I have air bubble in the left side preventing > coolant from getting there? > When I first bled mine I only had some heat from the passenger side and none on the drivers side. So I'd think air bubble first, failed control valve second. > I also removed the mech fan and in yesterdays 90+ heat with the a/c, sitting > in traffice, I found out my fan switch is dead, the water temp rose to 3/4 > and the fan never came on. > > In the e36, does the e fan come on low speed when the a/c is on? ie: like > the e30's > Mine does. If the a/c is on, the e fan is on. Interestingly enough mine never seems to kick into a high speed mode. If high speed mode is failed will the fan turn off or keep running at lower speed. One thing I don't know and I wish someone could fill me in on, is the aux fan definitively for a/c only or will it turn on if your coolant temp starts rising. I've never seen that run with the a/c off... ever. > I unplugged the fan switch and got a short jumper wire and kicked the fan on > high speed and drove home without any problems. Guess I either need a new > switch or put in my own siwtch inside the car to turn the fan on myself. > I did the manual switch thing long ago on my ghetto ride. I forgot to turn the fan on one time. Oops. The fact that that car only had idiot lights wasn't helpful. Thanks, Mark
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#10. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from Benjamin Hirsch
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:42:05 -0700 From: "Benjamin Hirsch" <benjamin.hirsch@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... I can also confirm, the AUX fan is wired to come on everytime the AC is on. I'm not sure about high temps triggering the AUX fan. I know in the OBD2 E36 M3's, there is a 2 speed fan switch that the AUX fan is wired to (low/high). I would suspect/guess the AUX fan should trigger under normal working conditions if the temp goes above X (if your temp gauge was moving above standard middle, it should be triggered by then, because that is very hot) On 7/11/07, tim ng <s14realm3@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:46:32 -0400 > From: "tim ng" <s14realm3@hotmail.com> > Subject: coolant temp., e-fan..... > > this spring, I changed all 3 hoses to the heater core and the left and > right > heater valve. I "think" I got 2 of them backwards as I only get heat from > the right side of the vents (above the glove box) The drivers side of the > vents blow cold. Can this be? Seems to me that if I am getting heat from > the > right side, then my inlet hose is correct and the right side hose is also > correct. Do you all think I have air bubble in the left side preventing > coolant from getting there? > > I also removed the mech fan and in yesterdays 90+ heat with the a/c, > sitting > in traffice, I found out my fan switch is dead, the water temp rose to 3/4 > and the fan never came on. > > In the e36, does the e fan come on low speed when the a/c is on? ie: like > the e30's > > I unplugged the fan switch and got a short jumper wire and kicked the fan > on > high speed and drove home without any problems. Guess I either need a new > switch or put in my own siwtch inside the car to turn the fan on myself. > > Tim Ng BMWCCA # 36497 > 95 BUZZNM3 dakar yella > 94 325i future track car > 92 325ic M-Technic pkg > 91 M3 garage queen > 88 M3/2.5 DM race car > ------------------ > project > 90 535ia > ------------------ > Pace shadow 26 ft enclosed trailer > my web page: > http://groups.msn.com/M3stuff/pictures > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > -- Thanks, Ben