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#1. RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:44:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue On Wed, July 11, 2007 4:38 pm, Scott wrote: > IIRC the thermostats have a "correct" orientation. There's a little > inscription on the thermostat telling you which way is "up". Yeah, it's an arrow :-) > My guess is > that getting this oriented correctly is a big part of getting your system > to > bleed. Not entirely, at least in my experience. My "difficult" bleed experience was during a coolant change only, I did not remove the thermostat or housing. So the thermostat was in the same orientation before and after. Jim Bassett
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#2. Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue - from marty
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:10:51 -0400 From: marty <mfraiser@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue It's not really a trick. BMW thermostats, at least my original one and the several I've used for preventive maintenance, have a tiny hole near the top. The new lower temp thermostat I installed when removing the clutch fan isn't a BMW part. It had no hole but did have a small detent where the hole would 'normally' be. I think people drill the tiny hole to replicate the BMW design presuming there must have been a good reason for it. At least that was my reasoning. I figured if BMW had it this one should too. marty Goss, Patrick - PA wrote: > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:57:12 -0500 > From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue > > Interesting on the tiny hole in the thermostat trick. Perhaps those > with stuck/broken thermostats could have more trouble bleeding air > properly. That was sorta my point originally. Thermos should be part > of any cooling preventative maintenance. > > Me >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from LoweSeaton@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 01:05:25 EDT From: LoweSeaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... Marty asks: Why does the aux fan automatically come on when A/C is turned on? Is the extra load of running the compressor enough to presume extra cooling will be necessary? I'm guessing part of the decision to do that is the presumption that it's already hot or you wouldn't need the A/C. I'm guessing the extra load on the engine is the answer because it sure saps a lot power and must be a significant load. I'm not sure why everybody calls it the "auxiliary fan", that is a misnomer. It is the "A/C condenser fan" first and foremost. That is why it comes on when the A/C is turned on. <grin> You have to have air moving through the A/C condenser to cool the refrigerant and enable cooling of the cabin air. Just like your home A/C unit. You have a condenser unit on the outside of the house with a fan - it comes on every time the thermostat activates the blower. No air flow, no cooling of the cabin air. You would not want to stop at a stoplight and have the A/C stop cooling. You may notice that your A/C blows colder air when you are moving. The reason is the electric fan isn't as effective as pushing the condenser through the air at 60 mph - driving forward pushes more air through the condenser than the fan can push. The extra engine load due to the A/C is insignificant in regard to the cooling demand. In fact, if your car overheats, turning on the A/C will help. It will kick on the A/C condenser fan and push a little more air through the radiator. Best would be to turn on the A/C and turn the temperature to HOT. You would be pulling heat out of the radiator and increasing air flow through the radiator. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 with fan delete option ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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#4. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from David Thomas
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Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:14:29 -0700 From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... On Wednesday 11 July 2007 10:08:21 pm LoweSeaton@aol.com wrote: > Why does the aux fan automatically come on when A/C is turned on? Is > the extra load of running the compressor enough to presume extra cooling > will be necessary? The AC condenser gets wicked hot as a product of the AC cooling cycle (the energy has to go somewhere...) so the fans run to keep it cool and to keep the radiator from absorbing too much of the AC's 'hotness'. Running the compressor does take HP and probably puts a bit more of a load on the cooling system, but the big issue is dealing with the condenser that is radiating a ton of heat. Dave
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#5. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:27:33 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 00:08 -0500, LoweSeaton@aol.com wrote: > The extra engine load due to the A/C is insignificant in regard to the > cooling demand. In fact, if your car overheats, turning on the A/C will help. It > will kick on the A/C condenser fan and push a little more air through the > radiator. Best would be to turn on the A/C and turn the temperature to HOT. > You would be pulling heat out of the radiator and increasing air flow through > the radiator. > Actually I would think full cold since the compressor would cycle and then the fan turns off. It'd be cool if you could operate it in heat pump mode whereby the heat would get removed from the condensor and then dumped into teh cabin. You could solve overheating pretty quickly doing that (right before you died of heat stroke). Thanks, Mark
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#6. RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:04:14 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? IMHO, Eric's kit http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544605 and KOPs kit are cobbed together bits of hoses and tees. The ESHP kit eliminates this "Rube Goldberg' approach with a very high quality machined adapter - http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/Images/Manifold_Kit/Manifold_Kit ..jpg This might be important and it might not. KLB -------------------- 5 -------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:59:23 -0400 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] replacing intake manifold? > I'm very happy with mine which is essentially the same as Marty's. > Junkyard M50 intake (~$100) + the Eurosport kit. I have a couple of > other things like no clutch driven fan and underdrive pulleys so that > *may* affect things a bit. If I get into stockish 95 M3s and drive > I'm always wondering where the power is. :-) > Thanks everyone for the awesome feedback, I love this listserv :-D As for the Eurosport Kit, everyone is referring to this one: http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/intakes.html correct? And the KO one which has the same price but is on sale right now: http://www.koperformance.com/BMW/engine/manifolds/ko/ko_performance_bmw_ parts_m50_manifold_conversion_kit_e36_m3.htm Seems to be comparable kits and with the favorable recommendation from ActiveAutowerke for KO, I'm leaning towards that now :-) I do want to later add in the cams / software and related bits, but for now, since I need to get in there to replace some hoses and sensors, figured an extra $350 isn't too bad ;-) Any other thoughts before hitting the tempting "buy" button? I'll be sure to post a follow up to let everyone know how the process goes and general thoughts for sure. ted '97 Estoril M3/4
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#7. RE: [E36M3] RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? - from Matt Bader
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:19:10 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? I think that in the overall scheme of things, having the more professional, carefully crafted set-up is desirable, even if it is more expensive. I think that helps maintain the overall value and quality of the car. I am going to go with the ESHP kit myself. I just need to figure out the best place to source the manifold. Haven't researched that aspect much yet. Matt Bader 98 M3/4 AA Stage II S/C Kit (runs strong) Other upgrades -----Original Message----- From: Burgess, Kim L [mailto:kim.l.burgess@boeing.com] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 12:08 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:04:14 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Replacing Intake Manifold? IMHO, Eric's kit http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=544605 and KOPs kit are cobbed together bits of hoses and tees. The ESHP kit eliminates this "Rube Goldberg' approach with a very high quality machined adapter - http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/Images/Manifold_Kit/Manifold_Kit ...jpg This might be important and it might not. KLB -------------------- 5 -------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:59:23 -0400 From: Theodore Serbinski <stanson@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] replacing intake manifold? > I'm very happy with mine which is essentially the same as Marty's. > Junkyard M50 intake (~$100) + the Eurosport kit. I have a couple of > other things like no clutch driven fan and underdrive pulleys so that > *may* affect things a bit. If I get into stockish 95 M3s and drive > I'm always wondering where the power is. :-) > Thanks everyone for the awesome feedback, I love this listserv :-D As for the Eurosport Kit, everyone is referring to this one: http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/intakes.html correct? And the KO one which has the same price but is on sale right now: http://www.koperformance.com/BMW/engine/manifolds/ko/ko_performance_bmw_ parts_m50_manifold_conversion_kit_e36_m3.htm Seems to be comparable kits and with the favorable recommendation from ActiveAutowerke for KO, I'm leaning towards that now :-) I do want to later add in the cams / software and related bits, but for now, since I need to get in there to replace some hoses and sensors, figured an extra $350 isn't too bad ;-) Any other thoughts before hitting the tempting "buy" button? I'll be sure to post a follow up to let everyone know how the process goes and general thoughts for sure. ted '97 Estoril M3/4 ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#8. RE: Possible Cooling System Issue - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:14:55 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: RE: Possible Cooling System Issue I have noted the arrow on the installs that I've accomplished and have always wondered what difference it could possible make. I also always drill an eight-inch diameter hole though the arrow and orientate that hole/arrow to the uppermost position. KLB -------------------- 10 -------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:29:06 -0700 From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] possible cooling system issue IIRC the thermostats have a "correct" orientation. There's a little inscription on the thermostat telling you which way is "up". My guess is that getting this oriented correctly is a big part of getting your system to bleed. I think it achieves the same thing as the "hole in the thermostat" trick.
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#9. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from loweseaton@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:23:54 -0400 From: loweseaton@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... Mark - yes you can, it is called the "defroster".? Every car made in the last 15+ years uses the A/C when you are in DEFROST mode.? Ever notice how the "Defrost" mode is down by the A/C settings?? The reason is warm dry air is better than warm moist air for defrosting windows.? The A/C dehumidifies the air.? You?then use the temperature setting to control the air temperature.? You can defrost with COLD dry air or HOT dry air.? Same for the dash panel vents.? You can blow COLD dry air out of the vents or HOT dry air - you choose.? In fact, most cars have a split mode where you can blow HOT dry air out of the floor vent and COLD dry air out of the dash vents. But bottom line, all of these HVAC modes - defrost, A/C, Recirculate A/C, split floor & dash - all use the A/C compressor and turn on the A/C condensor fan. Lowell Seaton '95 M3 ----------------------------------------------- Mark writes: Actually I would think full cold since the compressor would cycle and then the fan turns off. It'd be cool if you could operate it in heat pump mode whereby the heat would get removed from the condensor and then dumped into teh cabin. You could solve overheating pretty quickly doing that (right before you died of heat stroke). Thanks, Mark ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
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#10. Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... - from Mark Duckworth
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Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:35:59 -0400 From: Mark Duckworth <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] coolant temp., e-fan..... I wasn't aware that defrost mode did anything more than use small bits of cold dehumidied a/c air mixed with whatever volume of warm air necessary. Interesting to know. Thanks, Mark On Thu, 2007-07-12 at 12:23 -0400, loweseaton@aol.com wrote: > Mark - yes you can, it is called the "defroster". Every car made in > the last 15+ years uses the A/C when you are in DEFROST mode. Ever > notice how the "Defrost" mode is down by the A/C settings? The reason > is warm dry air is better than warm moist air for defrosting windows. > The A/C dehumidifies the air. You then use the temperature setting to > control the air temperature. You can defrost with COLD dry air or HOT > dry air. Same for the dash panel vents. You can blow COLD dry air > out of the vents or HOT dry air - you choose. In fact, most cars have > a split mode where you can blow HOT dry air out of the floor vent and > COLD dry air out of the dash vents. > > But bottom line, all of these HVAC modes - defrost, A/C, Recirculate > A/C, split floor & dash - all use the A/C compressor and turn on the > A/C condensor fan. > > Lowell Seaton > '95 M3 > ----------------------------------------------- > > Mark writes: > Actually I would think full cold since the compressor would cycle and > then the fan turns off. It'd be cool if you could operate it in heat > pump mode whereby the heat would get removed from the condensor and then > dumped into teh cabin. You could solve overheating pretty quickly doing > that (right before you died of heat stroke). > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. >