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#1. RE: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) - from ben@rogueengineering.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:01:01 -0400 (EDT) From: ben@rogueengineering.com Subject: RE: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Scott,  We had a customer get a 2007 RS4, and we proceeded to upgrade it with Milltek high flow cat downpipes and non-res exhaust. You can see/hear the results here:  [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4  The car is beautiful inside, very typical Audi. Carbon trimming everywhere, Recaro seats (even in the back!), fantastic controls. BMW could learn a thing or two from those folks.  However, at $80k (plus $4k in exhaust mods), the car "only" puts down 310whp (don't remember the torque...wasn't that impressive). The problem is, the car "feels" heavier than the actual 3900+ curb weight. Perhaps that permanent AWD that make that car feel like it's dragging.  There is no way this car is twice the value my 2001 E39 M5 (puts down 325rwhp).  [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk Best Regards, Ben Liaw Rogue Engineering • 201-444-8150 -----Original Message----- From: scott <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Sent: Sat, September 8, 2007 6:27 pm To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 15:24:45 -0700 From: "scott" Subject: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) On a somewhat related note (compact 4 door german sports sedan). I drove an RS4 for the first time this morning. Got to say I was blown away. An audi with great handling, brakes, looks, and (gasp) steering feel. I'm in lust, and really surprised by how different the car felt than my wife's v8 s4 avant. Usually after a test drive I get back into the M3 and I'm refreshed by the feel, feedback, etc. This time it felt slow, dead (responses) and old. :( Gotta go crack open the piggy bank. Scott.. -----Original Message----- From: Alex Demsky [mailto:hyper_m3@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 3:07 PM To: E36M3 Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 18:05:27 -0400 From: Alex Demsky Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i Dave, Good to see youre enjoying it! There is quite a difference between the cars its amazing. With the mods Ive done so far the 335 feels significantly faster than my supercharged m3. It feels a lot heavier tho, especially when making quick lane changes. That being said, its still pretty point and shoot. Someone asked about turbo lag....there is none on a stock 335. If you have it tuned then you will feel the "rush" of turbo kicking in pressing you in your seat. I could go on but Im sure Dave wants to enjoy gushing over his new baby. Congrats!Alex "HyperM3" Demsky 07 BMW 335i ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Hyper335.html[/url]97 BMW S/C M3 ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Bimmer.html[/url]07 Ducati 695 ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Ducati695.html[/url] ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#2. RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:04:58 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) From: "scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > > On a somewhat related note (compact 4 door german sports sedan). I drove > an > RS4 for the first time this morning. Got to say I was blown away. An audi > with great handling, brakes, looks, and (gasp) steering feel. I'm in lust, > and really surprised by how different the car felt than my wife's v8 s4 > avant. > > Usually after a test drive I get back into the M3 and I'm refreshed by the > feel, feedback, etc. This time it felt slow, dead (responses) and old. :( Well then you should get busy updating the suspension in your M3. If a 4,000+ lb all-wheel drive Audi feels sharper and more responsive than your E36 M3, it has either defied physics or you have entered an alternate universe. Gotta go crack open the piggy bank. Don't worry, freshening your E36 M3 suspension will cost nothing even remotely close to a $67k RS4. Regards, Rich
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#3. Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) - from DocWyte
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Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:05:21 -0600 From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> Subject: Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Had my friends RS4 for a day and I loved it. Great steering, brakes, handling, ride quality and the sound of that V8 through the Milltek exhaust, day-am! INterior was amazing and the ergonomics and Nav+ system were faultless. Not as much power as my RS4'd B5 Avant, but nonetheless a great car. I'd buy one in an instant if they had the avant over here. As it is, I'll wait a few years and pick one up from the dealer certified... scott wrote: > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 15:24:45 -0700 > From: "scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) > > On a somewhat related note (compact 4 door german sports sedan). I drove an > RS4 for the first time this morning. Got to say I was blown away. An audi > with great handling, brakes, looks, and (gasp) steering feel. I'm in lust, > and really surprised by how different the car felt than my wife's v8 s4 > avant. > > Usually after a test drive I get back into the M3 and I'm refreshed by the > feel, feedback, etc. This time it felt slow, dead (responses) and old. :( > > Gotta go crack open the piggy bank. > > Scott. >
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#4. Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) - from DocWyte
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Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2007 17:12:24 -0600 From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> Subject: Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Way more drivetrain loss through quattro than rwd. While the M5 may seem like a better choice, up here in mountain land, the RS4 is quite a bit more than twice a value over an E39 M5. People who think that their M3's with snow tires are good in the snow need to come for a ride with me in my snow tire equipped quattro. There's a *huge* difference... ben@rogueengineering.com wrote: > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:01:01 -0400 (EDT) > From: ben@rogueengineering.com > Subject: RE: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) > > > > > Scott, > >  > > We had a customer get a 2007 RS4, and we proceeded to upgrade it with Milltek high flow cat downpipes and non-res exhaust. You can see/hear the results here: > >  > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4 > >  > > The car is beautiful inside, very typical Audi. Carbon trimming everywhere, Recaro seats (even in the back!), fantastic controls. BMW could learn a thing or two from those folks. > >  > > However, at $80k (plus $4k in exhaust mods), the car "only" puts down 310whp (don't remember the torque...wasn't that impressive). The problem is, the car "feels" heavier than the actual 3900+ curb weight. Perhaps that permanent AWD that make that car feel like it's dragging. > >  > > There is no way this car is twice the value my 2001 E39 M5 (puts down 325rwhp). > >  > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk > > > Best Regards, > Ben Liaw > Rogue Engineering • 201-444-8150 > > >
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#5. Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) - from ben@rogueengineering.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:18:35 -0400 (EDT) From: ben@rogueengineering.com Subject: Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Ha. That's why the M5 permanently wears Michelin Pilot PS2s and lives in the garage when the snowflakes fall.  When the snowfalls, that's what the Honda Pilot is for! Best Regards, Ben Liaw Rogue Engineering • 201-444-8150 -----Original Message----- From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> Sent: Sat, September 8, 2007 7:12 pm To: ben@rogueengineering.com Cc: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: Re: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) Way more drivetrain loss through quattro than rwd. While the M5 may seem like a better choice, up here in mountain land, the RS4 is quite a bit more than twice a value over an E39 M5. People who think that their M3's with snow tires are good in the snow need to come for a ride with me in my snow tire equipped quattro. There's a *huge* difference... ben@rogueengineering.com wrote: > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:01:01 -0400 (EDT) > From: ben@rogueengineering.com > Subject: RE: RS4 (RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i) > > > > > Scott, > >  > > We had a customer get a 2007 RS4, and we proceeded to upgrade it with Milltek high flow cat downpipes and non-res exhaust. You can see/hear the results here: > >  > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WXEaw7kqNk > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NRpnqQ3P4 > >  > > The car is beautiful inside, very typical Audi. Carbon trimming everywhere, Recaro seats (even in the back!), fantastic controls. BMW could learn a thing or two from those folks. > >  > > However, at $80k (plus $4k in exhaust mods), the car "only" puts down 310whp (don't remember the torque...wasn't that impressive). The problem is, the car "feels" heavier than the actual 3900+ curb weight. Perhaps that permanent AWD that make that car feel like it's dragging. > >  > > There is no way this car is twice the value my 2001 E39 M5 (puts down 325rwhp). > >  > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMfWpP1i4Vk > > > Best Regards, > Ben Liaw > Rogue Engineering • 201-444-8150 > > >
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#6. RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? - from Marco Romani
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 16:25:24 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? Considering the S50s are cast iron the weight savings is surprising. I have a set for sale if anyone is interested. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Matt Bader [mailto:mbader@exammaster.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 10:07 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] RE: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 13:04:35 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? You should also save some weight over the S50 headers from what I recall. -----Original Message----- From: Jason Thrasher [mailto:thrasher.jason@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 12:37 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 09:37:56 -0700 From: "Jason Thrasher" <thrasher.jason@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? If I remember reading correctly, there is some flow advantage to the s52 headers, but you'll need to plug the extra O2 sensor holes. On 9/8/07, Jeff Conner <jeff.conner@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jeff Conner <jeff.conner@yahoo.com> > Subject: S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? > > Hey all, > > I've got a line on some pretty cheap S52 headers and I'm considering > the purchase. I'll be needing a new headgasket at some point soon - > 137k on the > motor and it pretty much only sees abusive use. It *is* in training to > be my > race car - so I figure that would be the perfect time to throw some > better flowing headers on. > > Question is this. Is it worth it? Will there be any increase in top > end if I trade out the S50 headers with the S52 version? Does anyone > have any before/after dyno charts of the swap? > > TIA > > -jeff > 98 Sedan ||| 95 Trackdog > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ________Ready > for the edge of your seat? > Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.6/991 - Release Date: 9/5/2007 2:55 PM
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#7. RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i - from Alex Demsky
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:40:27 -0400 From: Alex Demsky <hyper_m3@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i I'm gonna have to take offense to this. I've been an avid member of e90post since february(just before I picked up my car) and have already accrued almost 3000 posts. While there are a few immature overprivelaged children with $45k cars on the forum, not all of us on there are. There really aren't "that" many posts about kills, the majority are actually about what issues we may be having(unfortunately). As with all forums, you have to read between the lines for valuable information. I've met a lot of great people at a few GTG's since owning the car who are my age(+10) and who are all equally enthusiastic about motoring. Its a shame that the forum is apparently getting a bad rap, but unfortunately, its like that with all forums. I couldn't stand bimmerforums and DTM back in the day for the same reasons. If you're an e90 owner, feel free to venture over there and take what you want with a grain of salt. Ben, we go back a long way(pizzafests?). I take this as a sign you wont be coming out with any mods for the 335 or becoming a sponsor of that forum anytime soon.Alex "HyperM3" Demsky 07 BMW 335i ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Hyper335.html[/url]97 BMW S/C M3 ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Bimmer.html[/url]07 Ducati 695 ~ [url]http://hometown.aol.com/hyperm3/Ducati695.html[/url]> Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 17:27:23 -0500> From: ben@rogueengineering.com> To: e36m3@bmw-m.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i> > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 18:18:28 -0400 (EDT)> From: ben@rogueengineering.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i> > > Whatever you do, don't venture over to the E90post.com boards. The average age there must be 18, where a majority of the posts are "kill" threads vs. anything from Mustangs to Minivans.> >  > > Best Regards,> Ben Liaw <-- (an E36 M3 owner AGAIN, for the 4th time)> Rogue Engineering • 201-444-8150
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#8. Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? - from jon@treehouseracing.com
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 19:47:26 -0500 From: <jon@treehouseracing.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? Normally, I try to use Euro headers (especially since I keep 3-4 sets around) but for budget, I weld them up and then port the living stew out of them. I think they make more power than shorty headers. Jon ______________________________________________ Jon Siccardi - DM #053 TreehouseRacing.com M50conversion.com 615.333.9118 ______________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Conner" <jeff.conner@yahoo.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? > Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT) > From: Jeff Conner <jeff.conner@yahoo.com> > Subject: S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? > > Hey all, > > I've got a line on some pretty cheap S52 headers and I'm considering the > purchase. I'll be needing a new headgasket at some point soon - 137k on > the motor and it pretty much only sees abusive use. It *is* in training to > be my race car - so I figure that would be the perfect time to throw some > better flowing headers on. > > Question is this. Is it worth it? Will there be any increase in top end if > I trade out the S50 headers with the S52 version? Does anyone have any > before/after dyno charts of the swap? > > TIA > > -jeff > 98 Sedan ||| 95 Trackdog > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready > for the edge of your seat? > Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > http://tv.yahoo.com/ > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? - from Jamie Howton
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 20:13:03 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] S52 headers on S50 - any advantage? > I've got a line on some pretty cheap S52 headers and I'm considering the purchase. I'll be needing a new headgasket at some point soon - 137k on the motor and it pretty much only sees abusive use. It *is* in training to be my race car - so I figure that would be the perfect time to throw some better flowing headers on. > > Question is this. Is it worth it? Will there be any increase in top end if I trade out the S50 headers > with the S52 version? Does anyone have any before/after dyno charts of the swap? I have done this exact mod on my car, however I don't have a "before" dyno, just after. You will need to get some header plugs, NAPA carries them they call them "Hooker Header Plugs" and they had them in stock at my local store. You will also need to weld the channel that's on the back of the header and then grind the weld flush. I also spent about 4 hours grinding the inside of the header with a die grinder to try and smooth it out a bit (that is not quite as much fun as it sounds BTW). With the Eurosport CF intake, 24lb injectors, Eurosport software, LTW flywheel and stock rear exhaust section it dyno'd 227 RWHP FWIW. All that and it still isn't an equal length header; it's really just a stainless steel exhaust manifold; which will save you some weight over those stock boat anchors, but if I was doing it again I would do something different. Regards Jamie
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#10. RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i - from Dave Hogg
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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2007 21:52:57 -0400 From: "Dave Hogg" <dhogg1@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] E36 M3/4 vs. E90 335i Ben, good to see you back. Your old Mach V wheels still serve well and your LTW flywheel made my M3 buyer happy. The E90 has a little turbo lag when blipping for downshifts. Otherwise, it's just not there. And I've been lurking in the E90post boards for a few months - seems the guys there are more interested in cosmetics, street racing and in having the latest gizmo than they are in real world, on-track performance. Now, I'm going to kill this thread out of respect for the list mistress. OTOH, maybe she'll post that whip sound clip again. I just love it when Suzy does that. It's been a while. Dave Hogg