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#1. Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Mark D
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:06:52 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) I would pay up to $14K for this car. My mint condition 96 cost me $15,500 4 years ago with 125,000 miles.... It's not mint anymore :( Anyone have any M3/4 autos for sale right now? My fiance is really sick of her piece of sh*t volkswagen passat. (The passenger side window just fell in). Thanks, Mark Scott McClung wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:50:33 -0700 (PDT) > From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > I think the price is reasonable. If I were in the > market for an M3 coupe - I would strongly consider > yours and be willing to pay in the neighborhood of > $14-15K for it. > > Scott > > --- Scott <stiles_s@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:52:36 -0700 >> From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> >> Subject: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my >> '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) >> >> Do you guys think I'm off target on price? Asking on >> bimmerforums would >> probably net me "dude, you're *way* off. I just >> picked up a 328 w/M badges >> and a rebuilt title for $5k" >> >> It isn't a show car, but mechanically it's in great >> shape with tons of new >> parts over the past couple years. The PO took good >> care of the car, but >> didn't "invest" if you know what I mean. On the plus >> side it has all orig >> body panels w/orig paint on them. It has a few >> scratches and dings, but from >> 10' it's perfect. The front and rear bumper skins >> have had a little love, >> but again they fit and look great. >> >> Interior wise, the only wear is the outboard >> bolsters on the driver's seat. >> No rips. >> >> Everything in the car works: obc, radio, sunroof, >> etc. >> >> Shortcut w/better pics >> >> > http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35614 > >> Can I get some more thoughts on pricing? If this >> turns out to be a $11k car >> I'm keeping the damn thing :) >> >> Thanks much, >> Scott. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kjk [mailto:quierom5@yahoo.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:49 AM >> To: E36M3 >> Subject: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs >> >> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 07:40:13 -0700 (PDT) >> From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> >> Subject: Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs >> >> Graeme wrote: >> >> "Mandatory M3 content: Please report back how you >> get >> on selling your car for $15k. Edmunds and KBB are >> stating $9-$12k for excellent condition '97 >> Coupe's." >> >> You know //M cars. Pay now or pay later. I am paying >> later on my recent purchase of a '95 M3. When all is >> said and done I will have spent over $15k to have a >> car I should have nearly had for the original >> purchase >> price (although it will have a fresh head). I might >> not pay quite $15k for that car but he is in the >> right >> ballpark. >> >> Kevin >> '95 Avus/Dove >> '91 M5 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our >> sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance >> http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. >> http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> >> >> > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#2. RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Vikas.Sinha@zf.com
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:03:11 -0400 From: <Vikas.Sinha@zf.com> Subject: RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Some of that is probably the emptor trying to caveat. Mark, I subscribe to this list, and I've followed your whole journey, and knowing the care and diligence you put into your HG replacement, I would feel very comfortable buying your car. But if I met you off the street, the HG replacement would raise a red flag. In that case, I would rather supervise/execute that magnitude of job myself, thereby removing all variables about the quality of the work. Vik 97 M3/4 > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 3:39 PM > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my > '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > One potential buyer told me he'd rather find one with > high miles that didn't have the head gasket done on it, > then pay the $10,500 to $11,000 I wanted for it. I > silently wondered to myself if he was insane or he > really thought his undone head gasket would NEVER go.
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#3. Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from DocWyte
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:03:41 -0600 From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Not only that, but unless you know the seller personally, you have no idea how that car was treated. Especially with a turbo, you could be buying a car with a motor ready to explode due to poor tuning, or an ignorant owner. As with any modded car, you're much better off selling off the parts you can remove easily, then selling the car... David Thomas wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:49:16 -0700 > From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > On Tuesday 02 October 2007 12:38:39 pm Mark D wrote: > >> What really shocks me is how little people will pay for heavily modded >> cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around 100,000 miles for sale >> years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil or something but >> still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! >> > > While I would be more than happy to build my own blown M3, I would not touch a > used one unless it was a crazy deal and I knew the installer (and even then I > would probably not buy it). A seller of such a car would do much better to > sell the AA kit and car separately since only a certain type of person would > want that car, and most of those types enjoy the building process as much as > driving the finished product, so it really kills the value for a lot of > people (myself included). You can always find a sucker...err...I mean > buyer...but major mods like that really kill the value for me. > > Dave >
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#4. RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:28:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) So looks like you are ~$5K / year. One way to look at that is what can you lease for $5K / year total cost and how does it compare? Pretty much a E90 328i or Subaru Legacy GT or MazdaSpeed6 is where you are for only $5K / year. Personally I'd rather drive the '97 M3. Anyway - interesting data point - thanks for sharing. I have three BMW comparisons on yearly ownership costs: 00 540iT: 1 year ownership depreciation costs: $1K (and I traded it in too!!) repair costs: $2K Cost / year = $3K '98 M3/4: 2.5 years ownership depreciation costs: $7K repair / maint: $1K owned from 24K to 45K miles Cost / year: $3.2K '00 M5 1 year ownership depreciation: $9K repair / maint: $500 Cost / yr: $9.5K (but it was still worth it - the car was a pleasure to own for that year for sure) '06 CTSV on a nice lease deal was $8K / year, so compared to that all these BMW's I've owned don't look so bad. And while the CTSV was a very nice car, looking back I'd rather have the M5 and it is easily worth the extra $1-2K / year. Although, I sold it just getting out of warrantee so who knows what the repair bills might have added to the costs, which is why I sold it and leased the CTSV. Now my fun car is holding value or increasing every year and in the first year of ownership the total repair / maint bill was below $1K. '69 Camaro pro-touring car w/ a vette LT1 motor. Although not as practical as a business car, but I still end up driving it 1-2 times a week. And I like the fact that I am not actually losing any money by holding onto the car, insurance is cheap, and registration is nothing. Scott --- Scott <stiles_s@hotmail.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:00:45 -0700 > From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling > my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > Thanks all for the feedback on this. Sounds like I'm > a bit high on the > asking price, but not totally delusional. One of the > challenges is educating > the potential buyers about the real value of the > mechanical maintenance that > has gone on w/the car over the past couple years. > The "75k checklist" is > effectively complete on this car, and wasn't cheap. > > I paid ~16k for the car a couple years ago. I think > I overpaid a bit, but > really valued the one-ish owner history (previous > owner bought it from the > dealer in '98 after the sales mgr drove it for a > year) and the original > paint and interior. > > My wild swag is I've dumped 3-4k in shop cost into > the car and probably > another 2-3k in parts for the work I did myself (a > ton of it). The shop cost > was just associated to getting it debugged initially > (o2 sensors, cracked > exhaust manifolds, etc) and when I finally gave up > on the cooling system > (had them do water pump and thermostat). > > So, it's looking like 3-4k of depreciation and 5-7k > of maintenance over 2 > years. Not cheap, but not the worst I've seen in > terms of yearly automotive > cost :). > > Scott. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:51 AM > To: Scott; E36M3 > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling > my '97 M3 Coupe and > RGRs) > > I think the price is reasonable. If I were in the > market for an M3 coupe - I would strongly consider > yours and be willing to pay in the neighborhood of > $14-15K for it. > > Scott > > --- Scott <stiles_s@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:52:36 -0700 > > From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > > Subject: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my > > '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > > > Do you guys think I'm off target on price? Asking > on > > bimmerforums would > > probably net me "dude, you're *way* off. I just > > picked up a 328 w/M badges > > and a rebuilt title for $5k" > > > > It isn't a show car, but mechanically it's in > great > > shape with tons of new > > parts over the past couple years. The PO took good > > care of the car, but > > didn't "invest" if you know what I mean. On the > plus > > side it has all orig > > body panels w/orig paint on them. It has a few > > scratches and dings, but from > > 10' it's perfect. The front and rear bumper skins > > have had a little love, > > but again they fit and look great. > > > > Interior wise, the only wear is the outboard > > bolsters on the driver's seat. > > No rips. > > > > Everything in the car works: obc, radio, sunroof, > > etc. > > > > Shortcut w/better pics > > > http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35614 > > > > Can I get some more thoughts on pricing? If this > > turns out to be a $11k car > > I'm keeping the damn thing :) > > > > Thanks much, > > Scott. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kjk [mailto:quierom5@yahoo.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:49 AM > > To: E36M3 > > Subject: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs > > > > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 07:40:13 -0700 (PDT) > > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> > > Subject: Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs > > > > Graeme wrote: > > > > "Mandatory M3 content: Please report back how you > > get > > on selling your car for $15k. Edmunds and KBB are > > stating $9-$12k for excellent condition '97 > > Coupe's." > > > > You know //M cars. Pay now or pay later. I am > paying > > later on my recent purchase of a '95 M3. When all > is > > said and done I will have spent over $15k to have > a > > car I should have nearly had for the original > > purchase > > price (although it will have a fresh head). I > might > > not pay quite $15k for that car but he is in the > > right > > ballpark. > > > > Kevin > > '95 Avus/Dove > > '91 M5 > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance > http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. > http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#5. Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:38:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) well - especially with turbo or supercharged cars I have found you are lucky to get equivalent value to an otherwise similar car, and unlikely any premium for one. Often they are worth less than an otherwise similar stock car. --- Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> wrote: > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:22:46 -0400 > From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling > my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > Scott, > > I think you're pretty reasonable but what is > delusional is assuming you > can recover parts and labor. It's just not > happening. In my case my > 1996 with 190,000 miles has a freshened top end with > tons of new sensors > and completely redone cooling system at a cost of > $3000 (in parts > only). I've also done a TON of other maintenance > (new brakes all > around, tires, suspension, drivers seat repair, > speakers, HID > headlights, battery, etc. A similar car before the > head gasket would be > worth around $9000-9500. I've seen 95's and 96's go > with high mileage > for as low as $5K and makes me wonder what their > story was. One > potential buyer told me he'd rather find one with > high miles that didn't > have the head gasket done on it, then pay the > $10,500 to $11,000 I > wanted for it. I silently wondered to myself if he > was insane or he > really thought his undone head gasket would NEVER > go. I don't know that > I could get $9500 for it now with buyer mentality. > They don't realize > that with these cars if one person hits an issue at > 175,000 miles the > rest of the owners are almost CERTAIN to follow. I > don't drive it in > the winter, it's got no rust, was in an accident but > was repaired > undetectably, and it's been treated well since the > first owner. I think > it's a forever car for me. Later on I plan to > finish the suspension and > build a race motor for it with a supercharger. > Should breathe new life > into the car for me and cost a whole lot less than > an E46 :) (over $20K > more than my car is worth, with no 75K done) > > What really shocks me is how little people will pay > for heavily modded > cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around > 100,000 miles for sale > years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil or > something but > still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! > > I guess the moral of the story is buy as pristine as > possible with > Scott's car being a prime example of a buyable car, > then prepare to pay > through the nose :-P Especially since head gaskets > on these cars seem > to be time (and number of cold starts?) related much > more so than > mileage related. > > PS: I put a petroleum based fogging treatment > (seafoam) into the intake > of my 3000GT beater car. I really wish I took some > video of the smoke. > It was amazing and filled about a 2+ acre field with > a dense no > visibility fog. My lash adjuster tick is gone :-P > So much more smoke > than you see on the youtube videos people post. I > don't think you can > use a treatment like that on the M3 due to the > plastic intake but I'm > not sure on that. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > Scott wrote: > > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 11:00:45 -0700 > > From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > > Subject: RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] > Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > > > Thanks all for the feedback on this. Sounds like > I'm a bit high on the > > asking price, but not totally delusional. One of > the challenges is educating > > the potential buyers about the real value of the > mechanical maintenance that > > has gone on w/the car over the past couple years. > The "75k checklist" is > > effectively complete on this car, and wasn't > cheap. > > > > I paid ~16k for the car a couple years ago. I > think I overpaid a bit, but > > really valued the one-ish owner history (previous > owner bought it from the > > dealer in '98 after the sales mgr drove it for a > year) and the original > > paint and interior. > > > > My wild swag is I've dumped 3-4k in shop cost into > the car and probably > > another 2-3k in parts for the work I did myself (a > ton of it). The shop cost > > was just associated to getting it debugged > initially (o2 sensors, cracked > > exhaust manifolds, etc) and when I finally gave up > on the cooling system > > (had them do water pump and thermostat). > > > > So, it's looking like 3-4k of depreciation and > 5-7k of maintenance over 2 > > years. Not cheap, but not the worst I've seen in > terms of yearly automotive > > cost :). > > > > Scott. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Scott McClung [mailto:smlists@pacbell.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 10:51 AM > > To: Scott; E36M3 > > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] > Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and > > RGRs) > > > > I think the price is reasonable. If I were in the > > market for an M3 coupe - I would strongly consider > > yours and be willing to pay in the neighborhood of > > $14-15K for it. > > > > Scott > > > > --- Scott <stiles_s@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:52:36 -0700 > >> From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > >> Subject: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling > my > >> '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > >> > >> Do you guys think I'm off target on price? Asking > on > >> bimmerforums would > >> probably net me "dude, you're *way* off. I just > >> picked up a 328 w/M badges > >> and a rebuilt title for $5k" > >> > >> It isn't a show car, but mechanically it's in > great > >> shape with tons of new > >> parts over the past couple years. The PO took > good > >> care of the car, but > >> didn't "invest" if you know what I mean. On the > plus > >> side it has all orig > >> body panels w/orig paint on them. It has a few > >> scratches and dings, but from > >> 10' it's perfect. The front and rear bumper skins > >> have had a little love, > >> but again they fit and look great. > >> > >> Interior wise, the only wear is the outboard > >> bolsters on the driver's seat. > >> No rips. > >> > >> Everything in the car works: obc, radio, sunroof, > >> etc. > >> > >> Shortcut w/better pics > >> > >> > > > http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35614 > > > >> Can I get some more thoughts on pricing? If this > >> turns out to be a $11k car > >> I'm keeping the damn thing :) > >> > >> Thanks much, > >> Scott. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: kjk [mailto:quierom5@yahoo.com] > >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 7:49 AM > >> To: E36M3 > >> Subject: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs > === message truncated ===
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#6. Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) - from Scott
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:49:17 -0700 From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> Subject: Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) I totally agree it makes sense to dismantle a heavily modded car, return it to "stock" and sell the parts separately. Case & point, I installed a Turbo on one of my old Miatas (a 2000, fwiw). I drove it turbo'd for about a year and had a blast. When it came time to sell I bit the bullet and returned it to stock, and sold the turbo kit separately for nearly what I paid for it. Net: I was a bunch of $$ ahead (and had a much larger pool of potential car buyers looking at the car); all it took was some elbow grease returning it to stock, and some forethought in terms of keeping all the OEM parts on hand for the return to stock. Scott. -----Original Message----- From: DocWyte [mailto:docwyte@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:09 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:03:41 -0600 From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Not only that, but unless you know the seller personally, you have no idea how that car was treated. Especially with a turbo, you could be buying a car with a motor ready to explode due to poor tuning, or an ignorant owner. As with any modded car, you're much better off selling off the parts you can remove easily, then selling the car... David Thomas wrote: > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:49:16 -0700 > From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > On Tuesday 02 October 2007 12:38:39 pm Mark D wrote: > >> What really shocks me is how little people will pay for heavily modded >> cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around 100,000 miles for sale >> years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil or something but >> still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! >> > > While I would be more than happy to build my own blown M3, I would not touch a > used one unless it was a crazy deal and I knew the installer (and even then I > would probably not buy it). A seller of such a car would do much better to > sell the AA kit and car separately since only a certain type of person would > want that car, and most of those types enjoy the building process as much as > driving the finished product, so it really kills the value for a lot of > people (myself included). You can always find a sucker...err...I mean > buyer...but major mods like that really kill the value for me. > > Dave >
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#7. Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Scott McClung
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott McClung <smlists@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Yup - that reminds me of an '89 IROC that I used to own with a fully built hot-rod EFI motor, tremec 5-speed and 9" rear end. I removed the entire drivetrain, sold what I didn't need and took some of it for a new project and then sold the car as 100% stock to a buddy of mine. He knew the history of the car well, and how anal I was about caring for it and trusted my mechanical abilities so he had no issue with the fact the motor had been out and stored for a couple years and then re-installed. That was almost 10 years ago and from what I understand the car is still going strong - now owned by his brother. My buddy, who was still in his late 20's at the time passed away unexpectedly a few years after I sold him the car. And what is interesting about that is the stock car plus the few items that I sold netted me more than the modded car would have been worth - if I had even been able to sell it - and I got a complete motor out of the deal to use in my next project, which was a vette. Replacing the entire drivetrain seems like a big undertaking, but I had it done and fully debugged in about 1 week. In the grand scheme of things it wasn't so bad!! Scott --- DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> wrote: > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:03:41 -0600 > From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling > my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > Not only that, but unless you know the seller > personally, you have no > idea how that car was treated. Especially with a > turbo, you could be > buying a car with a motor ready to explode due to > poor tuning, or an > ignorant owner. > > As with any modded car, you're much better off > selling off the parts you > can remove easily, then selling the car... > > David Thomas wrote: > > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:49:16 -0700 > > From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> > > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] > Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) > > > > On Tuesday 02 October 2007 12:38:39 pm Mark D > wrote: > > > >> What really shocks me is how little people will > pay for heavily modded > >> cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around > 100,000 miles for sale > >> years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil > or something but > >> still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! > >> > > > > While I would be more than happy to build my own > blown M3, I would not touch a > > used one unless it was a crazy deal and I knew the > installer (and even then I > > would probably not buy it). A seller of such a car > would do much better to > > sell the AA kit and car separately since only a > certain type of person would > > want that car, and most of those types enjoy the > building process as much as > > driving the finished product, so it really kills > the value for a lot of > > people (myself included). You can always find a > sucker...err...I mean > > buyer...but major mods like that really kill the > value for me. > > > > Dave > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our > sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance > http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. > http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#8. Re: Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) - from Gary
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:31:59 -0500 From: "Gary" <probikeguy@probikeusa.com> Subject: Re: Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) I just sold my Turbo Miata, 1992, for 6500.00. It was heavily Modified. If the car was taken care of properly it should be a non issue. As long as it has documentation and maintance records. A few turbo M3's I know of have sold in the mid 20's with documented builds and complete records. I know I wouldn't sell my heavily modified M3turbo for less than 25k. It does take longer to find the right buyer for a modified car. Gary 95 3.2 turbo, six speed, with extra's ;o) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:58 PM Subject: Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) > Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 14:49:17 -0700 > From: "Scott" <stiles_s@hotmail.com> > Subject: Selling heavily modded cars (RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] > Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs)) > > I totally agree it makes sense to dismantle a heavily modded car, return > it > to "stock" and sell the parts separately. > > Case & point, I installed a Turbo on one of my old Miatas (a 2000, fwiw). > I > drove it turbo'd for about a year and had a blast. When it came time to > sell > I bit the bullet and returned it to stock, and sold the turbo kit > separately > for nearly what I paid for it. Net: I was a bunch of $$ ahead (and had a > much larger pool of potential car buyers looking at the car); all it took > was some elbow grease returning it to stock, and some forethought in terms > of keeping all the OEM parts on hand for the return to stock. > > Scott. > > -----Original Message----- > From: DocWyte [mailto:docwyte@comcast.net] > Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:09 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and > RGRs) > > Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:03:41 -0600 > From: DocWyte <docwyte@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and > RGRs) > > Not only that, but unless you know the seller personally, you have no > idea how that car was treated. Especially with a turbo, you could be > buying a car with a motor ready to explode due to poor tuning, or an > ignorant owner. > > As with any modded car, you're much better off selling off the parts you > can remove easily, then selling the car... > > David Thomas wrote: >> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:49:16 -0700 >> From: David Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> >> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and > RGRs) >> >> On Tuesday 02 October 2007 12:38:39 pm Mark D wrote: >> >>> What really shocks me is how little people will pay for heavily modded >>> cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around 100,000 miles for sale >>> years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil or something but >>> still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! >>> >> >> While I would be more than happy to build my own blown M3, I would not > touch a >> used one unless it was a crazy deal and I knew the installer (and even > then I >> would probably not buy it). A seller of such a car would do much better >> to > >> sell the AA kit and car separately since only a certain type of person > would >> want that car, and most of those types enjoy the building process as much > as >> driving the finished product, so it really kills the value for a lot of >> people (myself included). You can always find a sucker...err...I mean >> buyer...but major mods like that really kill the value for me. >> >> Dave >> > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#9. Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Mark D
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Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 17:08:45 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Vik, Well thanks for the kind words :) Makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Yeah I really do care about the car and really wanted to make sure no stone was unturned and no question was unanswered. After doing jobs like that and the timing belt on my 3000GT it's easy to see that plenty of shortcuts can be taken and it can drastically affect the results of the job. Improper torquing, dirt, buildup, dropping things in the cylinders, etc. But I'm glad if I decide to sell my car some day maybe a list member might want it :) Thanks, Mark Vikas.Sinha@zf.com wrote: > Some of that is probably the emptor trying to caveat. Mark, I subscribe > to this list, and I've followed your whole journey, and knowing the care > and diligence you put into your HG replacement, I would feel very > comfortable buying your car. But if I met you off the street, the HG > replacement would raise a red flag. In that case, I would rather > supervise/execute that magnitude of job myself, thereby removing all > variables about the quality of the work. > > > Vik > 97 M3/4 > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 3:39 PM >> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my >> '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) >> >> One potential buyer told me he'd rather find one with >> high miles that didn't have the head gasket done on it, >> then pay the $10,500 to $11,000 I wanted for it. I >> silently wondered to myself if he was insane or he >> really thought his undone head gasket would NEVER go. >>
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#10. RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) - from Matt Bader
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Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:04:41 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: RE: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) I guess this explains why some many people go the DIY route. I have an AA Stage II s/c and I know I will never get those $$ back, so its about the driving enjoyment, and probably keeping the car as long as possible. I paid $15,000 for a 75k mileage 98 4dr, and have put about $12k into the car for upgrades and maintenance/repair items. So, at this point I think I have a good car for the money, but I am getting close to the diminishing returns realm on anything except necessary maintenance items. And, if I have a major issue, like a head gasket, or transmission failure, than I start getting into "money pit" territory. Sometimes you do have to ask yourself is it worth it? At this point I can still say yes. Matt Bader 98 M3/4 Delaware -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 3:39 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:22:46 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: Help with pricing (RE: [E36M3] Selling my '97 M3 Coupe and RGRs) Scott, I think you're pretty reasonable but what is delusional is assuming you can recover parts and labor. It's just not happening. In my case my 1996 with 190,000 miles has a freshened top end with tons of new sensors and completely redone cooling system at a cost of $3000 (in parts only). I've also done a TON of other maintenance (new brakes all around, tires, suspension, drivers seat repair, speakers, HID headlights, battery, etc. A similar car before the head gasket would be worth around $9000-9500. I've seen 95's and 96's go with high mileage for as low as $5K and makes me wonder what their story was. One potential buyer told me he'd rather find one with high miles that didn't have the head gasket done on it, then pay the $10,500 to $11,000 I wanted for it. I silently wondered to myself if he was insane or he really thought his undone head gasket would NEVER go. I don't know that I could get $9500 for it now with buyer mentality. They don't realize that with these cars if one person hits an issue at 175,000 miles the rest of the owners are almost CERTAIN to follow. I don't drive it in the winter, it's got no rust, was in an accident but was repaired undetectably, and it's been treated well since the first owner. I think it's a forever car for me. Later on I plan to finish the suspension and build a race motor for it with a supercharger. Should breathe new life into the car for me and cost a whole lot less than an E46 :) (over $20K more than my car is worth, with no 75K done) What really shocks me is how little people will pay for heavily modded cars. I saw an AA turbocharged 97 with around 100,000 miles for sale years ago for $17,500. Maybe it was burning oil or something but still. The AA kit costs $10K or so by itself! I guess the moral of the story is buy as pristine as possible with Scott's car being a prime example of a buyable car, then prepare to pay through the nose :-P Especially since head gaskets on these cars seem to be time (and number of cold starts?) related much more so than mileage related. PS: I put a petroleum based fogging treatment (seafoam) into the intake of my 3000GT beater car. I really wish I took some video of the smoke. It was amazing and filled about a 2+ acre field with a dense no visibility fog. My lash adjuster tick is gone :-P So much more smoke than you see on the youtube videos people post. I don't think you can use a treatment like that on the M3 due to the plastic intake but I'm not sure on that. Thanks, Mark