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#1. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Marco Romani
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 22:35:53 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Could be piston slap..... My Chebby truck has that problem. It came that way. Sounds like a diesel on start-up and driveaway and then its fine 30 second later. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:32 PM To: Marco Romani Cc: E36M3 Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Thanks for all of the responses. It sounds like you guys definitely have not come to any sort of agreement on the oils. I was asking specifically about M1 0W-40 because it's available local and cheap. The available locally is my main concern because my car consumes oil (1qt per 1000 miles) and I like to make sure it's always topped off. If I had to choose an oil I had to mail order it would definitely be Lubro Moly 5W40. Nothing but kind words for that oil. Sad to say but the noise sounds decidedly more rod bearing then lifter-ish. I have a 3000GT which are famous for lifter tick/draining down so I know the noises. The light is not on for a significant amount of time, I'd say 1 second max, most times less than half a second. But then again I don't know if that's significant. I can say it's dead silent and never makes any tapping or strange noises once the light is off. I can't remember how the car behaved when it was younger in terms of the light turning off. I know for instance my motorcycle's oil light will turn off while cranking even. When you first start the car cold it revs high right after it catches for a few seconds. It's during that rev high that it makes the tapping/knocking and it goes away as quick as it comes. I remember back in the day it used to tap like crazy after a good hard drive but it doesn't do that anymore ever. I've had this thought about the oil pump nut backing off and retightening every time i stop/start the car, but I think a big part of the issue is my aging lower end and it's probably starting to develop bearing slop which is lowering oil pressure. The top end is pretty much brand new and I know the check valve is installed right, I doubt it's lifters leaking down. I'm going to switch back to Lubro Moly 5W40 and see if it helps. Spend some money to keep from spending money I guess. I think I might do a bottom end/clutch overhaul this winter now that I'm moving to a well lit oversized 2 car garage. I'll be able to fit a cherry picker in there to pull the engine completely. It'd be nice to re-ring it and really get a new engine rather than just the top end like I was forced to do last year. I might also pull it and have VAC do measurements, rering it, and install new bearings. It'd be nice to know it was done properly. With regards to the gauge, I don't have one. Always wanted the triple set for the sunglass holder, but that was not one of the things I could get approval from the mothership for. Thanks, Mark Marco Romani wrote: > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:06:19 -0700 > From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> > Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > Probably one of your lifters is leaking down and that tick is the > lifter making noise until it pumps back up with oil. Oil light should > go out at I think 1/2 bar so if its really on for a significant amount > of time you are either having oil pump problems or the sender is going > bad. > > Do you have a gauge on the car. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 8:34 PM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > > Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:24:06 -0400 > From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 > > Hey guys, > > I firmly feel that castrol syntec 5W-50 is kiling my engine. I have a > small tap/knock on startup before the oil light goes out which takes a > little longer to go out now (maybe almost a full second). I'm near the > end of the 5000 mile service life and have had only a minor decrease in > oil consumption which was the original reason for this experiment. > Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not in my preferred > weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 or should I switch > back to Lubro-moly and stop messing around? > > I really feel that the 5W specification on that oil is a bunch of > crap. > It seems thicker cold than they state... It's certainly cheaper than TWS > 10W-60 so probably crappier polymers. > > Thanks, > Mark > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.8/1089 - Release Date: 10/23/2007 7:39 PM
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#2. Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Robert Manger
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:53:59 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hi Mark, Castrol is a good oil, but only use Group III oils, so not the best for extreme use or high performance cars. I have found for my 95 that Amsoil 10w-40 is a much better oil and doesn't shear down as much as the Mobil 1 0w-40 (Yes I actually did an oil test, I was that curious). I used the Mobil 1 oil for many years, until their recent formula changes using more Group III oils in most of their product line. Lubro-moly is also a very good oil, but the newer 5-40 weights that meet the new BMW or Audi standards have a lower level of an important ingredient for "older" cars called ZDDP. This is to comply with new emissions regs both here and abroad. I don't profess to be an expert on this stuff, it is all info from Bob is the oil guy website that I have spent many a hour reading instead of doing work around the house = - ). rob From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hey guys, I firmly feel that castrol syntec 5W-50 is kiling my engine. I have a small tap/knock on startup before the oil light goes out which takes a little longer to go out now (maybe almost a full second). I'm near the end of the 5000 mile service life and have had only a minor decrease in oil consumption which was the original reason for this experiment. Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not in my preferred weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 or should I switch back to Lubro-moly and stop messing around? I really feel that the 5W specification on that oil is a bunch of crap. It seems thicker cold than they state... It's certainly cheaper than TWS 10W-60 so probably crappier polymers. Thanks, Mark
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#3. RE: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Matt Bader
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:14:19 -0400 From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 What's the link to that website? Thanks for the info, you need to be a scientist to sort through this stuff. Matt Bader Delaware -----Original Message----- From: Robert Manger [mailto:Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 9:04 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:53:59 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hi Mark, Castrol is a good oil, but only use Group III oils, so not the best for extreme use or high performance cars. I have found for my 95 that Amsoil 10w-40 is a much better oil and doesn't shear down as much as the Mobil 1 0w-40 (Yes I actually did an oil test, I was that curious). I used the Mobil 1 oil for many years, until their recent formula changes using more Group III oils in most of their product line. Lubro-moly is also a very good oil, but the newer 5-40 weights that meet the new BMW or Audi standards have a lower level of an important ingredient for "older" cars called ZDDP. This is to comply with new emissions regs both here and abroad. I don't profess to be an expert on this stuff, it is all info from Bob is the oil guy website that I have spent many a hour reading instead of doing work around the house = - ). rob From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hey guys, I firmly feel that castrol syntec 5W-50 is kiling my engine. I have a small tap/knock on startup before the oil light goes out which takes a little longer to go out now (maybe almost a full second). I'm near the end of the 5000 mile service life and have had only a minor decrease in oil consumption which was the original reason for this experiment. Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not in my preferred weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 or should I switch back to Lubro-moly and stop messing around? I really feel that the 5W specification on that oil is a bunch of crap. It seems thicker cold than they state... It's certainly cheaper than TWS 10W-60 so probably crappier polymers. Thanks, Mark ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from david kroth
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: david kroth <david_kroth@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 A quick search of the Mobil 1 site indicates Mobil 1 0W-40 meets the BMW Longlife 01 specification. I don't find any other Mobil 1 weights that do. No mention on the site of the later BMW Longlife 04 specification. Mark wrote: > Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not > in my preferred > weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 David Kroth david_kroth@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#5. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:10:56 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Marco, I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt to measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they are. Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod bearings for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all the time which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my car. This is a 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup and then the engine is QUIET and runs great. Thanks, Mark Marco Romani wrote: > Could be piston slap..... > > > My Chebby truck has that problem. It came that way. Sounds like a diesel > on start-up and driveaway and then its fine 30 second later. > > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:32 PM > To: Marco Romani > Cc: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > > Thanks for all of the responses. It sounds like you guys definitely > have not come to any sort of agreement on the oils. I was asking > specifically about M1 0W-40 because it's available local and cheap. The > available locally is my main concern because my car consumes oil (1qt > per 1000 miles) and I like to make sure it's always topped off. If I > had to choose an oil I had to mail order it would definitely be Lubro > Moly 5W40. Nothing but kind words for that oil. > > Sad to say but the noise sounds decidedly more rod bearing then > lifter-ish. I have a 3000GT which are famous for lifter tick/draining > down so I know the noises. The light is not on for a significant amount > of time, I'd say 1 second max, most times less than half a second. But > then again I don't know if that's significant. I can say it's dead > silent and never makes any tapping or strange noises once the light is > off. I can't remember how the car behaved when it was younger in terms > of the light turning off. I know for instance my motorcycle's oil light > will turn off while cranking even. When you first start the car cold it > revs high right after it catches for a few seconds. It's during that > rev high that it makes the tapping/knocking and it goes away as quick as > it comes. I remember back in the day it used to tap like crazy after a > good hard drive but it doesn't do that anymore ever. I've had this > thought about the oil pump nut backing off and retightening every time i > stop/start the car, but I think a big part of the issue is my aging > lower end and it's probably starting to develop bearing slop which is > lowering oil pressure. The top end is pretty much brand new and I know > the check valve is installed right, I doubt it's lifters leaking down. > > I'm going to switch back to Lubro Moly 5W40 and see if it helps. Spend > some money to keep from spending money I guess. > > I think I might do a bottom end/clutch overhaul this winter now that I'm > moving to a well lit oversized 2 car garage. I'll be able to fit a > cherry picker in there to pull the engine completely. It'd be nice to > re-ring it and really get a new engine rather than just the top end like > I was forced to do last year. I might also pull it and have VAC do > measurements, rering it, and install new bearings. It'd be nice to know > it was done properly. > > With regards to the gauge, I don't have one. Always wanted the triple > set for the sunglass holder, but that was not one of the things I could > get approval from the mothership for. > > Thanks, > Mark > >
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#6. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Goss, Patrick - PA
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:33:07 -0500 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 You could always send an oil sample to blackstone labs for oil analysis to see if there is excessive bearing material present, (lead I think). I believe I mentioned this when we were at Paul's house to see if you still had any coolant residuals left, despite my recollection of how diligent you were with your HG. In general thou from what I've heard many mechanics say, it doesn't take long to tear up bearings if coolant is mixed in the oil. It reality you may have been driving with some coolant mix for many miles prior to your gasket failing. Either way with your mileage (180+ right?) a bottom end rebuild is on the horizon regardless. When/if my gasket goes at whatever mileage and if I'm fortunate to be able to afford continued feed of this M3, it will be a complete rebuilt longblock for that reason. I'd get your pressure checked, and go from there. Low pressure is going to make short work of that reworked VAC head. Patrick p.s are your vanos tools back home yet? -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 10:14 AM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:10:56 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Marco, I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt to measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they are. Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod bearings for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all the time which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my car. This is a 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup and then the engine is QUIET and runs great. Thanks, Mark Marco Romani wrote: > Could be piston slap..... > > > My Chebby truck has that problem. It came that way. Sounds like a diesel > on start-up and driveaway and then its fine 30 second later. > > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:32 PM > To: Marco Romani > Cc: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > > Thanks for all of the responses. It sounds like you guys definitely > have not come to any sort of agreement on the oils. I was asking > specifically about M1 0W-40 because it's available local and cheap. The > available locally is my main concern because my car consumes oil (1qt > per 1000 miles) and I like to make sure it's always topped off. If I > had to choose an oil I had to mail order it would definitely be Lubro > Moly 5W40. Nothing but kind words for that oil. > > Sad to say but the noise sounds decidedly more rod bearing then > lifter-ish. I have a 3000GT which are famous for lifter tick/draining > down so I know the noises. The light is not on for a significant amount > of time, I'd say 1 second max, most times less than half a second. But > then again I don't know if that's significant. I can say it's dead > silent and never makes any tapping or strange noises once the light is > off. I can't remember how the car behaved when it was younger in terms > of the light turning off. I know for instance my motorcycle's oil light > will turn off while cranking even. When you first start the car cold it > revs high right after it catches for a few seconds. It's during that > rev high that it makes the tapping/knocking and it goes away as quick as > it comes. I remember back in the day it used to tap like crazy after a > good hard drive but it doesn't do that anymore ever. I've had this > thought about the oil pump nut backing off and retightening every time i > stop/start the car, but I think a big part of the issue is my aging > lower end and it's probably starting to develop bearing slop which is > lowering oil pressure. The top end is pretty much brand new and I know > the check valve is installed right, I doubt it's lifters leaking down. > > I'm going to switch back to Lubro Moly 5W40 and see if it helps. Spend > some money to keep from spending money I guess. > > I think I might do a bottom end/clutch overhaul this winter now that I'm > moving to a well lit oversized 2 car garage. I'll be able to fit a > cherry picker in there to pull the engine completely. It'd be nice to > re-ring it and really get a new engine rather than just the top end like > I was forced to do last year. I might also pull it and have VAC do > measurements, rering it, and install new bearings. It'd be nice to know > it was done properly. > > With regards to the gauge, I don't have one. Always wanted the triple > set for the sunglass holder, but that was not one of the things I could > get approval from the mothership for. > > Thanks, > Mark > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from marty
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:42:00 -0400 From: marty <mfraiser@embarqmail.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Might it be the primary timing chain making noise before the tensioner pumps up? I think using the dummy pretensioner while tightening the exhaust sprocket is supposed to prevent that but not positive. I'm not even sure if the tensioner w/o oil pressure would still keep the chain tensioned enough with spring pressure. Just throwing it out there :) marty Mark D wrote: > Marco, > > I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt > to measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they are. > Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a whole > heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod bearings > for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all the time > which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my car. This is > a 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup and then the > engine is QUIET and runs great. > > Thanks, > Mark > >
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#8. 1 series tii - from L R
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: L R <lhrc51@yahoo.com> Subject: 1 series tii <http://www.automobilemag.com/new_and_future_cars/0710_2007_bmw_1-series_tii_concept/index.html> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#9. Expected Oil Temps on Track? - from kjk
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> Subject: Expected Oil Temps on Track? Now that I have had the opportunity to actually drive my '95 M3 for a couple of weeks I was wondering kind of oil temps I can expect. The prior owner(s) installed set of gauges and most of the time it is running somewhere between 170-200. My M5 had an oil cooler so even on track on the hottest days it would maybe go to 210 or so. After all the work I had done, the mechanic put in Swepco 20/50. I am interested in knowing what I can expect when the car is driven hard. Thanks. Kevin P.S. I did have the pan baffled and oil pump pick up point optimized while he was in there doing the oil pump nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#10. Current Drain Continues. - from Burgess, Kim L
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:01:35 -0700 From: "Burgess, Kim L" <kim.l.burgess@boeing.com> Subject: Current Drain Continues. I always thought the starter solenoid was the relay? KLB -------------------- 1 -------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 13:37:39 -0700 From: Andrew Kalman <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Current Drain Continues... That's a lot of quiescent drain. Gotta fix that! Dunno where the starter relay is ... Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:17:16 -0500 From: Steve Klein s.klein@steveklein.cc Subject: Current Drain Continues...The plot thickens. Where is the Starter Relay on an 11/95 M3? Bentley says "Behind the left footwell speaker grill" but I've got it all apart and I can't see anything. Is it behind the speaker? With a jumper battery pack connected to the positive jump lug in the engine bay and using a multimeter between Neg and body ground, I've tested current draw (everything off) by going through the engine compartment fuse block and pulling each fuse and relay one by one, but I'm getting over .5A draw (quickly jumps out of range on my MM). I found three relays below the driver kick panel (two in the aux relay panel and one further back on the splice panel). Still 1A draw. The one I haven't found is the Starter relay. Any help locating it or making sense of my findings is greatly appreciated. Thank you, Steve