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#1. Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? - from Jay Hudson
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:20:58 -0700 From: "Jay Hudson" <jwhud@budget.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? As we go sliding down the slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope. Merrily, merrily, merrily life is but a dream. :-) Sorry, no idea of oil temps. Gaugeless with head in sand ;-) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "kjk" <quierom5@yahoo.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> Subject: Expected Oil Temps on Track? Now that I have had the opportunity to actually drive my '95 M3 for a couple of weeks I was wondering kind of oil temps I can expect. The prior owner(s) installed set of gauges and most of the time it is running somewhere between 170-200. My M5 had an oil cooler so even on track on the hottest days it would maybe go to 210 or so. After all the work I had done, the mechanic put in Swepco 20/50. I am interested in knowing what I can expect when the car is driven hard. Thanks. Kevin P.S. I did have the pan baffled and oil pump pick up point optimized while he was in there doing the oil pump nut.
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#2. Re: Mobil 1 0W-40 - from steve crowl
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:23:05 -0500 From: "steve crowl" <stcrowl@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Mobil 1 0W-40 I switched from M1 15W-50 to 0W-40 in my 7/95 m3 over a year ago with good results - same 1 qt consumption between 5k oil changes. For what it's worth, here's a link discussing changes in M1 formula and possible implications for p-car air-cooled engines http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html Steve Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 23:24:06 -0400 > From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> > Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 > > Hey guys, > > I firmly feel that castrol syntec 5W-50 is kiling my engine. I have a > small tap/knock on startup before the oil light goes out which takes a > little longer to go out now (maybe almost a full second). I'm near the > end of the 5000 mile service life and have had only a minor decrease in > oil consumption which was the original reason for this experiment. > Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not in my preferred > weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 or should I switch > back to Lubro-moly and stop messing around? > > I really feel that the 5W specification on that oil is a bunch of crap. > It seems thicker cold than they state... It's certainly cheaper than TWS > 10W-60 so probably crappier polymers. > > Thanks, > Mark >
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#3. Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? - from Jeff Conner
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Conner <jeff.conner@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? Kevin, 210 is on the low side of good for a hot day. I saw ~220 last Friday in 70* temps at Thunderhill. hth -jeff ----- Original Message ---- From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> Now that I have had the opportunity to actually drive my '95 M3 for a couple of weeks I was wondering kind of oil temps I can expect. The prior owner(s) installed set of gauges and most of the time it is running somewhere between 170-200. My M5 had an oil cooler so even on track on the hottest days it would maybe go to 210 or so. After all the work I had done, the mechanic put in Swepco 20/50. I am interested in knowing what I can expect when the car is driven hard. Thanks. Kevin P.S. I did have the pan baffled and oil pump pick up point optimized while he was in there doing the oil pump nut. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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#4. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:47:39 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Hrmm, This is a valid theory too. Doh, multiple things it could be :-P I did install new tensioners however they could be defective - or it could be my vanos I suppose which also feeds on oil. The dummy tensioner is used to pretension the main timing chain so that your timing is accurate. Not using it would just throw your timing off. Thanks, Mark marty wrote: > Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:42:00 -0400 > From: marty <mfraiser@embarqmail.com> > Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > Might it be the primary timing chain making noise before the tensioner > pumps up? I think using the dummy pretensioner while tightening the > exhaust sprocket is supposed to prevent that but not positive. I'm > not even sure if the tensioner w/o oil pressure would still keep the > chain tensioned enough with spring pressure. Just throwing it out > there :) > > marty > > Mark D wrote: >> Marco, >> >> I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt >> to measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they >> are. Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a >> whole heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod >> bearings for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all >> the time which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my >> car. This is a 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup >> and then the engine is QUIET and runs great. >> >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >> >
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#5. Re: Expected Oil Temps on Track? - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:44:33 -0400 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Expected Oil Temps on Track? on 10/25/07 11:24 AM, kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> wrote: > Now that I have had the opportunity to actually drive > my '95 M3 for a couple of weeks I was wondering kind > of oil temps I can expect. You don't say where you live or where you'd be driving, but oil temps under track use tend to be in the 240-260F area. Yes, that's pretty hot. Which is why people run heavier oils like 15W-50, which are kind of thick but better maintain viscosity at the track temps. Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD
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#6. RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Marco Romani
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:56:14 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Hmmm - vanos is also dependent on oil pressure for operation, but I would think you would hear that more towards the top end. You're right, a leaky lifter would take longer to pump back up, and I would think rod knock would never actually go a way. I actually used to run 20-50w in my S50 before going to a straight 40w redline. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:11 AM To: Marco Romani Cc: 'E36M3' Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Marco, I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt to measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they are. Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a whole heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod bearings for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all the time which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my car. This is a 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup and then the engine is QUIET and runs great. Thanks, Mark Marco Romani wrote: > Could be piston slap..... > > > My Chebby truck has that problem. It came that way. Sounds like a > diesel on start-up and driveaway and then its fine 30 second later. > > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:32 PM > To: Marco Romani > Cc: E36M3 > Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > > Thanks for all of the responses. It sounds like you guys definitely > have not come to any sort of agreement on the oils. I was asking > specifically about M1 0W-40 because it's available local and cheap. The > available locally is my main concern because my car consumes oil (1qt > per 1000 miles) and I like to make sure it's always topped off. If I > had to choose an oil I had to mail order it would definitely be Lubro > Moly 5W40. Nothing but kind words for that oil. > > Sad to say but the noise sounds decidedly more rod bearing then > lifter-ish. I have a 3000GT which are famous for lifter tick/draining > down so I know the noises. The light is not on for a significant amount > of time, I'd say 1 second max, most times less than half a second. But > then again I don't know if that's significant. I can say it's dead > silent and never makes any tapping or strange noises once the light is > off. I can't remember how the car behaved when it was younger in terms > of the light turning off. I know for instance my motorcycle's oil light > will turn off while cranking even. When you first start the car cold it > revs high right after it catches for a few seconds. It's during that > rev high that it makes the tapping/knocking and it goes away as quick as > it comes. I remember back in the day it used to tap like crazy after a > good hard drive but it doesn't do that anymore ever. I've had this > thought about the oil pump nut backing off and retightening every time i > stop/start the car, but I think a big part of the issue is my aging > lower end and it's probably starting to develop bearing slop which is > lowering oil pressure. The top end is pretty much brand new and I know > the check valve is installed right, I doubt it's lifters leaking down. > > I'm going to switch back to Lubro Moly 5W40 and see if it helps. > Spend > some money to keep from spending money I guess. > > I think I might do a bottom end/clutch overhaul this winter now that > I'm > moving to a well lit oversized 2 car garage. I'll be able to fit a > cherry picker in there to pull the engine completely. It'd be nice to > re-ring it and really get a new engine rather than just the top end like > I was forced to do last year. I might also pull it and have VAC do > measurements, rering it, and install new bearings. It'd be nice to know > it was done properly. > > With regards to the gauge, I don't have one. Always wanted the triple > set for the sunglass holder, but that was not one of the things I could > get approval from the mothership for. > > Thanks, > Mark > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1092 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 1:14 PM
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#7. Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:56:38 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 > > From: "Robert Manger" Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com > > Hi Mark, > > Castrol is a good oil, but only use Group III oils, so not the best for > extreme use or high performance cars. I have no interest in getting into a war about oil, but this one sentence has two significant errors. By no means do all Castrol oils only use Group III base stocks. There are a number of Castrol motor oils that use base stocks other than Group III and are readily available in the US. Castrol German 0W30 has one of the most passionate followings of any oil I have ever seen and it uses Group IV PAO and Ester base stocks. Castrol TWS also uses Group IV and Group V base stocks. There are surely a variety of Castrol oils made in Europe that would also be "full synthetics" per their definition. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that oils derived from Group III base stocks perform exceptionally well. There is much more to oil and its performance than the composition of its base stocks. Regards, Rich
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#8. RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? - from Marco Romani
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:00:28 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? Around 230-250 if driven really hard and you don't have a cooler. I would see up to 270 on really hot days running in dirty air during a race w/out a cooler, but moving into clean air would quickly drop the oil and water temps. The frankenmotor was running 270 w/out a cooler, but dropped back to the 230-250 range with a cooler. Marco CTS-V runs 240 all the time -----Original Message----- From: Jay Hudson [mailto:jwhud@budget.net] Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:24 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:20:58 -0700 From: "Jay Hudson" <jwhud@budget.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? As we go sliding down the slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope. Merrily, merrily, merrily life is but a dream. :-) Sorry, no idea of oil temps. Gaugeless with head in sand ;-) Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "kjk" <quierom5@yahoo.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 8:04 AM Subject: [E36M3] Expected Oil Temps on Track? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> Subject: Expected Oil Temps on Track? Now that I have had the opportunity to actually drive my '95 M3 for a couple of weeks I was wondering kind of oil temps I can expect. The prior owner(s) installed set of gauges and most of the time it is running somewhere between 170-200. My M5 had an oil cooler so even on track on the hottest days it would maybe go to 210 or so. After all the work I had done, the mechanic put in Swepco 20/50. I am interested in knowing what I can expect when the car is driven hard. Thanks. Kevin P.S. I did have the pan baffled and oil pump pick up point optimized while he was in there doing the oil pump nut. ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1092 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 1:14 PM
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#9. Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 11:57:56 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 It's too cold here to run that. It can get down to 0deg F here at times and I think such a thick oil would soundly destroy my engine. I live in Pennsylvania. From what I'm reading I'm thinking about redline 5W40 Marco Romani wrote: > Hmmm - vanos is also dependent on oil pressure for operation, but I would > think you would hear that more towards the top end. You're right, a leaky > lifter would take longer to pump back up, and I would think rod knock would > never actually go a way. > > I actually used to run 20-50w in my S50 before going to a straight 40w > redline. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 7:11 AM > To: Marco Romani > Cc: 'E36M3' > Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 > > > Marco, > > I won't argue with that. When I had the head off I never did attempt to > measure the cylinder bores so who knows how out of round they are. > Funny thing about piston slap is from what I know there's not a whole > heck of a lot you can do other than tolerate it. I know rod bearings > for instance, when they start to go the car makes noise all the time > which varies under load. Definitely not the case for my car. This is a > 1/4 second noise that happens immediately on startup and then the engine > is QUIET and runs great. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > Marco Romani wrote: > >> Could be piston slap..... >> >> >> My Chebby truck has that problem. It came that way. Sounds like a >> diesel on start-up and driveaway and then its fine 30 second later. >> >> >> Marco >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 9:32 PM >> To: Marco Romani >> Cc: E36M3 >> Subject: Re: [e36m3] [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 >> >> >> Thanks for all of the responses. It sounds like you guys definitely >> have not come to any sort of agreement on the oils. I was asking >> specifically about M1 0W-40 because it's available local and cheap. The >> available locally is my main concern because my car consumes oil (1qt >> per 1000 miles) and I like to make sure it's always topped off. If I >> had to choose an oil I had to mail order it would definitely be Lubro >> Moly 5W40. Nothing but kind words for that oil. >> >> Sad to say but the noise sounds decidedly more rod bearing then >> lifter-ish. I have a 3000GT which are famous for lifter tick/draining >> down so I know the noises. The light is not on for a significant amount >> of time, I'd say 1 second max, most times less than half a second. But >> then again I don't know if that's significant. I can say it's dead >> silent and never makes any tapping or strange noises once the light is >> off. I can't remember how the car behaved when it was younger in terms >> of the light turning off. I know for instance my motorcycle's oil light >> will turn off while cranking even. When you first start the car cold it >> revs high right after it catches for a few seconds. It's during that >> rev high that it makes the tapping/knocking and it goes away as quick as >> it comes. I remember back in the day it used to tap like crazy after a >> good hard drive but it doesn't do that anymore ever. I've had this >> thought about the oil pump nut backing off and retightening every time i >> stop/start the car, but I think a big part of the issue is my aging >> lower end and it's probably starting to develop bearing slop which is >> lowering oil pressure. The top end is pretty much brand new and I know >> the check valve is installed right, I doubt it's lifters leaking down. >> >> I'm going to switch back to Lubro Moly 5W40 and see if it helps. >> Spend >> some money to keep from spending money I guess. >> >> I think I might do a bottom end/clutch overhaul this winter now that >> I'm >> moving to a well lit oversized 2 car garage. I'll be able to fit a >> cherry picker in there to pull the engine completely. It'd be nice to >> re-ring it and really get a new engine rather than just the top end like >> I was forced to do last year. I might also pull it and have VAC do >> measurements, rering it, and install new bearings. It'd be nice to know >> it was done properly. >> >> With regards to the gauge, I don't have one. Always wanted the triple >> set for the sunglass holder, but that was not one of the things I could >> get approval from the mothership for. >> >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >> >> > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.10/1092 - Release Date: 10/25/2007 > 1:14 PM > >
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Re: Question RE UUC Shortshifter - from Chris Papademetrious
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:02:21 -0400 From: "Chris Papademetrious" <chrispitude@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Question RE UUC Shortshifter Hi all, I received some off-list emails that my conically-worn clutch disc was likely due to a parts failure somewhere in the clutch/pressure plate system, rather than with the transmission being crooked. They pointed out that if the transmission were indeed crooked, I would have other issues like improper starter engagement. Apologies for my mistake (and thinking about it more, I can't imagine a BMW master mechanic putting a transmission in crooked). In any case, the symptoms definitely describe a clutch dragging for some reason. Don't do what I did and try to live with it until you trash your synchros and necessitate a rebuild. :( I can vouch that these are not cheap units to rebuild. - Chris On 10/24/07, Chris Papademetrious <chrispitude@gmail.com> wrote: > Rob is right on the money, your clutch is not completely disengaging. > I had this same problem, and eventually after several months (long > story not worth telling) it fragged my synchros. When my local > transmission guy dropped the transmission to have it rebuilt, we found > that the clutch friction surface was worn conically! It seemed that > the transmission was never correctly reinstalled by the previous > mechanic (bummer, since I paid a BMW mechanic to do the job). Anyway, > after the rebuilt transmission went back on straight, it's been > shifting as expected ever since. > > - Chris
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#11. Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 - from mdriver13@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:13:04 -0400 From: mdriver13@aol.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Hi Rob, Curious about your test method.? Did you use a viscometer and perform a temperature profile test? Bob Gill 97 ///M3 coupe Philly Region SCCA 2005/2006 Philly Region BSP Champion Sponsored by WCC & Rogue Engineering -----Original Message----- From: Robert Manger <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> To: E36M3 <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 9:04 am Subject: [E36M3] Mobil 1 0W-40 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:53:59 -0400 From: "Robert Manger" <Robert_Manger@Mastercard.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hi Mark, Castrol is a good oil, but only use Group III oils, so not the best for extreme use or high performance cars. I have found for my 95 that Amsoil 10w-40 is a much better oil and doesn't shear down as much as the Mobil 1 0w-40 (Yes I actually did an oil test, I was that curious). I used the Mobil 1 oil for many years, until their recent formula changes using more Group III oils in most of their product line. Lubro-moly is also a very good oil, but the newer 5-40 weights that meet the new BMW or Audi standards have a lower level of an important ingredient for "older" cars called ZDDP. This is to comply with new emissions regs both here and abroad. I don't profess to be an expert on this stuff, it is all info from Bob is the oil guy website that I have spent many a hour reading instead of doing work around the house = - ). rob From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Mobil 1 0W-40 Hey guys, I firmly feel that castrol syntec 5W-50 is kiling my engine. I have a small tap/knock on startup before the oil light goes out which takes a little longer to go out now (maybe almost a full second). I'm near the end of the 5000 mile service life and have had only a minor decrease in oil consumption which was the original reason for this experiment. Mobil 1 is only available in 0W-40 locally and not in my preferred weight of 5W-40. What do you guys think of 0W-40 or should I switch back to Lubro-moly and stop messing around? I really feel that the 5W specification on that oil is a bunch of crap. It seems thicker cold than they state... It's certainly cheaper than TWS 10W-60 so probably crappier polymers. Thanks, Mark ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com