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#1. Re: tire rub and staggered set up - from Tom Yee
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:48:59 -0500 From: Tom Yee <tomgsr@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: tire rub and staggered set up From my own experience on a 97 M3/4, let me share some thoughts. OEM wheels and tires were staggered. Suspension is essentially stock, Bilsteins replacing fromnt struts. I have tried running 235/40-17 (the '95, non-staggered tire size) on 17x8 rims at all corners as well as on 17x7.5 rims at all corners. I would conclude that the understeer is reduced by a small margin, definitely not dramatic. I have also tried to change tire inflations (35 psi cold all around) and this has a greater (though still not dramatic) effect. What I like is a little better balance but mostly the opportunity to rotate tires front to back and even the wear patterns a bit. The 17x8 is a better wheel fitment, but BMW used 17x7.5s in the non-staggered set up. Most tire manufacturers recommend a minimum width of 8" when using 235/40-17 tires, but I haven't had any issues. Oh, for tires, I had Bridgestone RE750 on the 17x8 (decent but not great in wet, about 25k miles tread life and 4/32 left on tread) and Dunlop Sport Maxx on the 17x7.5 (not markedly better in the wet but definitely faster tread wear, 5-6/32 left with less than 8k miles of use!!!) I'd probably go back to RE750s or something else next summer! Hope this is informative! _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
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#2. Re: steering wheel squeak - from Tom Yee
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:52:47 -0500 From: Tom Yee <tomgsr@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: steering wheel squeak Fellow enthusiasts, Thanks for the thoughts on lubricating the lower steering column bushing/bearing at the firewall. I had a mechanic (he has a lift vs me on my back on the cold, NE ground) douse it with lubricant (WD-40, I know, not the recommended choice but what he had). The noise is reduced but not gone, a little more sporadic rather than every time I get the wheel to a specific amount of input. He did suggest trying to lubricate the top, plastic bushing/bearing. Anyone try this? Is it easy to see/get at after removing the trim panel under the steering column? _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
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#3. RE: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from e36@cueframe.org
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:13:50 -0600 From: "e36@cueframe.org" <e36@cueframe.org> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Matt, Our car's a 99% street and 1% DE car. I wanted to get the most rubber on the ground without changing the suspension. Same size tires and wheels were recommended to me also (because they can be rotated) but because of the understeer/oversteer issues with the e36, I stayed with staggered. BMW does know what they're doing after all. I have BBS 18" 8.5 in the front and 9.0 in the back which is what bfgoodrich recommended when I talked with them. The tires are 235/40x18 in the front and 255/35x18 in back. I can slip a piece of paper, at least, between the tires and the strut in front. In the rear, there was some slight, slight rubbing on the inside of the passenger side wheel well after the first DE, so a little work with the brass hammer (it was that slight) did the trick. Because it's a street car, I didn't want to go to coil overs but rather went with the DINAN set-up with custom coils and Koni shocks. They can be put in easily also. The car tramlines because of the tire width on the street, but on the track, you can steer well with your feet, which is what I was after. I hope this helps. Bill Ft. Worth 2/22/99 Coupe
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Re: tire rub and staggered set up - from Marty
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:54:14 -0500 From: Marty <mfraiser@embarqmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: tire rub and staggered set up As another data point I've had about the same experience as Tom. I've run 235/40-ZR17 tires all the way around for years on a '96 M3. I currently have Michelin PS2 on stock 17x7.5 wheels for street and RA1s on 17x8 wheels for DE. Both are awesome tires for my purposes. I imagine 245 or 255 widths would be similar but the wheel widths and tire selection have so far kept me at 235. Increasing the front tire width and decreasing rear would almost certainly reduce understeer (increase oversteer) by some amount all other things being equal. Any driveable car inherently understeers but the change may or may not suit a particular driver and his/her driving style. I happen to like it better - mine certainly isn't tail happy and will easily understeer if I make it. It is very nice to be able to rotate the tires. I've found a dramatic reduction of understeer accomplished by my going to lots of DE events. Not sure how it happened but somehow I don't have much of an understeer 'problem' any more :) marty On Jan 17, 2008, at 11:50 AM, Tom Yee wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:48:59 -0500 > From: Tom Yee <tomgsr@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: tire rub and staggered set up > > > From my own experience on a 97 M3/4, let me share some thoughts. > > OEM wheels and tires were staggered. Suspension is essentially > stock, Bilsteins replacing fromnt struts. I have tried running > 235/40-17 (the '95, non-staggered tire size) on 17x8 rims at all > corners as well as on 17x7.5 rims at all corners. I would conclude > that the understeer is reduced by a small margin, definitely not > dramatic. I have also tried to change tire inflations (35 psi cold > all around) and this has a greater (though still not dramatic) effect. > > What I like is a little better balance but mostly the opportunity to > rotate tires front to back and even the wear patterns a bit. The > 17x8 is a better wheel fitment, but BMW used 17x7.5s in the non- > staggered set up. Most tire manufacturers recommend a minimum width > of 8" when using 235/40-17 tires, but I haven't had any issues. > > Oh, for tires, I had Bridgestone RE750 on the 17x8 (decent but not > great in wet, about 25k miles tread life and 4/32 left on tread) and > Dunlop Sport Maxx on the 17x7.5 (not markedly better in the wet but > definitely faster tread wear, 5-6/32 left with less than 8k miles of > use!!!) I'd probably go back to RE750s or something else next summer! > > Hope this is informative!
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#5. Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:56:51 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Am I missing something? I thought E36 M3 was 95-99. Maybe 94 is an early 95? Thanks, Mark Azik [Hotmail] wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:27:35 +0100 > From: "Azik [Hotmail]" <azik@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up > > Matt, > > As I totalled my 1994 M3 with 235 all around - I can say that this > setup is too oversteery. That was also confirmed by one of the reacing > drivers who tested and compared different M cars as well as two > coupe's - 1994 with 235 all around and 1997 with staggered. Even with > higher torque the latter model was much more neutral than 1994 M3 and > didn't oversteer out of the corner as older model. > I now have 1998 on standart staggered and can confirm that its > neutral, mey be a bit understeery but just alittle bit. > > Azar, > '97 528iA, '98 M3 3.2 Coupe Euro 321 HP > (oOO\(||||)(||||)/OOo) /|OO|(||||)(||||)|OO|\ > Celle, Germany > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:50 PM > Subject: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up > > >> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:44:49 -0500 >> From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> >> Subject: RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up >> >> Sorry for the cross post, but I am sure somebody has a good answer >> for this. >> >> I have a question regarding the dynamics of switching from a staggered >> wheel/tire set up to the same size wheels/tires at all four corners >> for the >> E36 M3. My 98 M3/4 has the staggered set-up of course, 235's on front, >> 245's on back. I believe BMW switched from the 235's on all four >> corners >> for the 95 M3 to the staggered set up on later models to dial in a >> bit of >> understeer. Is that correct? Will the car be more neutral with the >> same >> wheel/rubber all the way around? Are there any disadvantages to >> switching >> from the staggered set up? I was thinking of going with 245's all >> the way >> around since it sounds like 255's may cause some fitment hassles with >> some >> tires. >> >> Tia, >> >> Matt Bader >> 98 M3/4 >> Delaware >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bmwuucdigest-owner@uucdigest.com >> [mailto:bmwuucdigest-owner@uucdigest.com] On Behalf Of kkiely@tsmc.com >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:42 PM >> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com >> Subject: [UUC] <E36> tire rub >> >> >> Anyone have experience with the Koshei's in 17x8.5 on the E36, 328? >> Setup >> is Koshei's with ET=38mm, shoes are Khomo 255/40's. He's getting >> rubbing at >> the back where the bumper sticks into the well. I haven't seen it, >> that's >> the description I'm getting. Fronts are OK with the 5mm square shoulder >> spacers, no spacers in back. >> It would seem that we can contour the FRP to get rid of the rubbing, but >> I'm just curious if others have run into this. >> >> >> -Kevin
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#6. RE: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from Goss, Patrick - PA
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:08:02 -0600 From: "Goss, Patrick - PA" <Patrick.Goss@GMACM.COM> Subject: RE: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Or a euro... -----Original Message----- From: Mark D [mailto:mdlkml@atari-source.com] Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:00 PM To: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:56:51 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Am I missing something? I thought E36 M3 was 95-99. Maybe 94 is an early 95? Thanks, Mark Azik [Hotmail] wrote: > Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:27:35 +0100 > From: "Azik [Hotmail]" <azik@hotmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up > > Matt, > > As I totalled my 1994 M3 with 235 all around - I can say that this > setup is too oversteery. That was also confirmed by one of the reacing > drivers who tested and compared different M cars as well as two > coupe's - 1994 with 235 all around and 1997 with staggered. Even with > higher torque the latter model was much more neutral than 1994 M3 and > didn't oversteer out of the corner as older model. > I now have 1998 on standart staggered and can confirm that its > neutral, mey be a bit understeery but just alittle bit. > > Azar, > '97 528iA, '98 M3 3.2 Coupe Euro 321 HP > (oOO\(||||)(||||)/OOo) /|OO|(||||)(||||)|OO|\ > Celle, Germany > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> > To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> > Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:50 PM > Subject: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up > > >> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 06:44:49 -0500 >> From: "Matt Bader" <mbader@exammaster.com> >> Subject: RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up >> >> Sorry for the cross post, but I am sure somebody has a good answer >> for this. >> >> I have a question regarding the dynamics of switching from a staggered >> wheel/tire set up to the same size wheels/tires at all four corners >> for the >> E36 M3. My 98 M3/4 has the staggered set-up of course, 235's on front, >> 245's on back. I believe BMW switched from the 235's on all four >> corners >> for the 95 M3 to the staggered set up on later models to dial in a >> bit of >> understeer. Is that correct? Will the car be more neutral with the >> same >> wheel/rubber all the way around? Are there any disadvantages to >> switching >> from the staggered set up? I was thinking of going with 245's all >> the way >> around since it sounds like 255's may cause some fitment hassles with >> some >> tires. >> >> Tia, >> >> Matt Bader >> 98 M3/4 >> Delaware >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: bmwuucdigest-owner@uucdigest.com >> [mailto:bmwuucdigest-owner@uucdigest.com] On Behalf Of kkiely@tsmc.com >> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 7:42 PM >> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com >> Subject: [UUC] <E36> tire rub >> >> >> Anyone have experience with the Koshei's in 17x8.5 on the E36, 328? >> Setup >> is Koshei's with ET=38mm, shoes are Khomo 255/40's. He's getting >> rubbing at >> the back where the bumper sticks into the well. I haven't seen it, >> that's >> the description I'm getting. Fronts are OK with the 5mm square shoulder >> spacers, no spacers in back. >> It would seem that we can contour the FRP to get rid of the rubbing, but >> I'm just curious if others have run into this. >> >> >> -Kevin ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm *************************************************
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#7. WTB Suspension - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:15:22 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: WTB Suspension Hey guys, Looking for cheap parts for my 1996 OBDII/S52. Want OEM only and will consider slightly used: Control arms, tie rod ends, power steering hoses/reservoir, struts/shocks front and rear. Need to get started on this :) Thanks, Mark
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#8. Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:28:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up On Thu, January 17, 2008 3:50 am, Matt Bader wrote: > My 98 M3/4 has the staggered set-up of course, 235's on front, > 245's on back. Actually, 225s front, 245s rear. > I believe BMW switched from the 235's on all four corners > for the 95 M3 to the staggered set up on later models to dial in a bit of > understeer. Is that correct? That's the accepted reason, yes. > Will the car be more neutral with the same > wheel/rubber all the way around? Yes. > Are there any disadvantages to switching > from the staggered set up? No. Added benefit of being able to rotate F<->R to increase tire life. > I was thinking of going with 245's all the way > around since it sounds like 255's may cause some fitment hassles with some > tires. Yes. And, as long as you use stock (rear) sized wheels all around (17x8.5, 41 offset) no spacers are required with 245/40/17 tires. 8 years, 4 different tires in the above configuration. :-) Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - 245/40/17 all around 1993 325is #44 JP - 255/40/17 all around (usually)
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#9. Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:35:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up On Thu, January 17, 2008 10:00 am, Mark D wrote: > Am I missing something? Yes, his sig line :-) He's in Germany, hence a Euro-spec car. > I thought E36 M3 was 95-99. In the US. They were available from the beginning of the E36 run (1992) in Europe. Jim Bassett
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#10. Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC]tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 13:38:50 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: [UUC] <E36> tire rub; OT staggered wheel set-up Jim Bassett wrote: > On Thu, January 17, 2008 10:00 am, Mark D wrote: > >> Am I missing something? >> > > Yes, his sig line :-) He's in Germany, hence a Euro-spec car. > > >> I thought E36 M3 was 95-99. >> > > In the US. They were available from the beginning of the E36 run (1992) in > Europe. > > Jim Bassett > > > > And now I'm informed :) I didn't think about euro guys. Frankly I'm jealous of them and their S50B32 motor anyway. Thanks, Mark