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#1. Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Chris Gant
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:48:44 -0600 From: "Chris Gant" <cgant2112@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question The timing marks should always line up with TDC, but it's difficult to see them straight on with the motor still in the car, and the fact that the motor is tilted to one side adds to the inaccuracy. The screwdriver/pencil in the #1 cylinder is an easy way to verify things. There really isn't any need to replace the chain. -------------------- 7 -------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:51 -0600 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question Shel, I had the same problem when I did my head gasket. I found that the TDC marks are not accurate enough in and of themselves to properly get everything lined up correctly, you could easily be off several teeth in the engine timing. I had to use a dial indicator to measure through the sparkplug hole to the top of the first piston to correctly find TDC. FWIW, I had the same UUC flywheel. I asked Rob about it and the early ones didn't have the timing hole, I guess if you ever sell it you can advertise it on Ebay as one of the "rare - no timing hole" lightweight flywheels. Regards On Jan 31, 2008 10:19 PM, <Shelhart2@aol.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:10:04 EST > From: Shelhart2@aol.com > Subject: Vanos install question > > I've finally gotten around to installing my Dr. Vanos Stage 2 kit for my > 1995 M3 tonight. I figured I'd at least get the valve cover off, cam block > installed etc tonight and then tomorrow take the vanos out. Quick question... > I have an aftermarket flywheel and I can't see any hole in it to put the pin > through. I think it's a UUC LTW flywheel because it was on the car when I > bought it. As long as the timing marks line up (front camshaft lobes and cam > blocks are in place in the rear, am I ok? I assume the stock flywheel had a > hole to secure TDC?
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#2. RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Marco Romani
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:10:23 -0800 From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question I'll actually disagree on the chain replacement. While rare they do fail and on my race motor the old chain was about 3/16" longer than the new one. Granted there was a lot of high rpm time on that motor, but why blow take the chance on a 130k motor, especially when you're "already in there." The chain is pretty cheap. Marco -----Original Message----- From: Chris Gant [mailto:cgant2112@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 6:50 AM To: E36M3 Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:48:44 -0600 From: "Chris Gant" <cgant2112@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question The timing marks should always line up with TDC, but it's difficult to see them straight on with the motor still in the car, and the fact that the motor is tilted to one side adds to the inaccuracy. The screwdriver/pencil in the #1 cylinder is an easy way to verify things. There really isn't any need to replace the chain. -------------------- 7 -------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:51 -0600 From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question Shel, I had the same problem when I did my head gasket. I found that the TDC marks are not accurate enough in and of themselves to properly get everything lined up correctly, you could easily be off several teeth in the engine timing. I had to use a dial indicator to measure through the sparkplug hole to the top of the first piston to correctly find TDC. FWIW, I had the same UUC flywheel. I asked Rob about it and the early ones didn't have the timing hole, I guess if you ever sell it you can advertise it on Ebay as one of the "rare - no timing hole" lightweight flywheels. Regards On Jan 31, 2008 10:19 PM, <Shelhart2@aol.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:10:04 EST > From: Shelhart2@aol.com > Subject: Vanos install question > > I've finally gotten around to installing my Dr. Vanos Stage 2 kit for > my 1995 M3 tonight. I figured I'd at least get the valve cover off, > cam block installed etc tonight and then tomorrow take the vanos out. > Quick question... I have an aftermarket flywheel and I can't see any > hole in it to put the pin through. I think it's a UUC LTW flywheel > because it was on the car when I bought it. As long as the timing > marks line up (front camshaft lobes and cam blocks are in place in > the rear, am I ok? I assume the stock flywheel had a hole to secure > TDC? ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM
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#3. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:59:50 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question On Friday 01 February 2008 8:19:32 am Marco Romani wrote: > I'll actually disagree on the chain replacement. While rare they do fail > and on my race motor the old chain was about 3/16" longer than the new one. > Granted there was a lot of high rpm time on that motor, but why blow take > the chance on a 130k motor, especially when you're "already in there." > > The chain is pretty cheap. I agree with Marco. They stretch pretty bad over time and can eventually get broken rollers on the chain in extreme situations, but I have never seen that on a BMW engine. If you are in a situation where you can easily change the chain, do it. Dave
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#4. Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Mark D
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 12:58:45 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question Shelhart2@aol.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 09:04:48 EST > From: Shelhart2@aol.com > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > One other question... How often should the chains be replaced. The car has > 130k and I don't see where the previous owner ever changed them. > > Shel > > > Shel, I have about 200K on mine and am considering replacing mine now. I'd estimate 200K is safe because I've never heard of them breaking on a BMW engine. Not like timing belt horror stories. But look at the teeth on the sprockets and inspect the chain very thoroughly. If all looks well, all probably is well. Mine looked brand new at 180K, no rounding on the sprockets really at all. Thanks, Mark
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#5. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Mark D
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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:03:15 -0500 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.com> Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question Well because he's not that far down into the motor to replace the primary chain, only the secondary. What's the point of replacing the secondary only? Depends how expensive your valves are I suppose. As far as I remember, replacing the primary meant removing a ton of things including AC compressor, etc. Now if the primary chain wasn't infinite and had a master link, I'd say definitely do it, why not, assuming you can snake it down there but I don't think we have that situation. But don't just replace the chains. If you replace the chains, replace the sprockets too. Rounding on them contributes to failure and wear. Thanks, Mark Marco Romani wrote: > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:10:23 -0800 > From: "Marco Romani" <marco@corsa-na.com> > Subject: RE: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > I'll actually disagree on the chain replacement. While rare they do fail > and on my race motor the old chain was about 3/16" longer than the new one. > Granted there was a lot of high rpm time on that motor, but why blow take > the chance on a 130k motor, especially when you're "already in there." > > The chain is pretty cheap. > > Marco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Gant [mailto:cgant2112@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 6:50 AM > To: E36M3 > Subject: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:48:44 -0600 > From: "Chris Gant" <cgant2112@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > The timing marks should always line up with TDC, but it's difficult to see > them straight on with the motor still in the car, and the fact that the > motor is tilted to one side adds to the inaccuracy. > > The screwdriver/pencil in the #1 cylinder is an easy way to verify things. > > There really isn't any need to replace the chain. > > > -------------------- 7 -------------------- > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:30:51 -0600 > From: "Jamie Howton" <jhowton@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > Shel, > > I had the same problem when I did my head gasket. I found that the TDC > marks are not accurate enough in and of themselves to properly get > everything lined up correctly, you could easily be off several teeth in the > engine timing. I had to use a dial indicator to measure through the > sparkplug hole to the top of the first piston to correctly find TDC. FWIW, > I had the same UUC flywheel. I asked Rob about it and the early ones didn't > have the timing hole, I guess if you ever sell it you can advertise it on > Ebay as one of the "rare - no timing hole" lightweight flywheels. > > Regards > > > > On Jan 31, 2008 10:19 PM, <Shelhart2@aol.com> wrote: > >> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:10:04 EST >> From: Shelhart2@aol.com >> Subject: Vanos install question >> >> I've finally gotten around to installing my Dr. Vanos Stage 2 kit for >> my 1995 M3 tonight. I figured I'd at least get the valve cover off, >> cam block installed etc tonight and then tomorrow take the vanos out. >> Quick question... I have an aftermarket flywheel and I can't see any >> hole in it to put the pin through. I think it's a UUC LTW flywheel >> because it was on the car when I bought it. As long as the timing >> marks line up (front camshaft lobes and cam blocks are in place in >> the rear, am I ok? I assume the stock flywheel had a hole to secure >> TDC? >> > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 > 8:30 PM > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#6. Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Shelhart2@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:12:48 EST From: Shelhart2@aol.com Subject: Re: [e36m3] Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question New sprockets come with the Dr. vanos kit (at least the stage 2 I bought). I've almost got the new vanos in and decided to leave the chains as is as they look new. Chris's directions with Dr. Vanos are excellent and everything has gone smoothly so far. I'll let you all know when it starts :) Shel **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)
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#7. Engine weight? - from cteague@cox.net
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:05:50 -0500 From: <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Engine weight? Does anyone know the complete engine weight of the M3 S52 or S50 motor? I have 375 lbs for the 330i N54, and 419lbs for the 335i M54 motor, so I was curious as to how much our E36 M3 motors weigh, or even the E46 M3 motor. Thanks, Chris
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#8. Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:23:17 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question All you guys who are suggesting pencils or whatever way to time the VANOS are out of your minds. I don't even trust the factory centering pin and feel that it's just a short cut to take by BMW technicians. Get a dial indicator and go through the spark plug hole in cylinder #1...plain and simple. Did someone really suggest a pencil and rotating the crank until you can lock the cam locks? So if the VANOS was mistimed in the first place...no biggie? C'mon! When installing the Eurosport cam kit on Wayne's car, Josh was telling the tech to place a 2.5mm allen key under the cam lock to advance/retard one of the cams. We're taling about that precise! Learn what you're doing first before proceeding and if you guys have no idea what you're talking about, you should really not spread misinformation. Chester
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#9. Re: Vanos install question - from Steve Klein
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 16:54:26 -0600 From: Steve Klein <s.klein@steveklein.cc> Subject: Re: Vanos install question I was in the same boat with an early UUC Lt. Wt. fly with now dowel hole, so I used a dial indicator in Cyl 1 to verify the timing marks and confirmed that TDC on the balancer and case mark (S50) was dead on. I'd be surprised to learn of any factory motors with the timing marks off as far as has been stated. On Feb 1, 2008, at 4:29 PM, Chester Wong wrote: > Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:23:17 -0800 (PST) > From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Vanos install question > > All you guys who are suggesting pencils or whatever way to time the > VANOS are > out of your minds. I don't even trust the factory centering pin and > feel that > it's just a short cut to take by BMW technicians. Get a dial > indicator and go > through the spark plug hole in cylinder #1...plain and simple. Did > someone > really suggest a pencil and rotating the crank until you can lock > the cam > locks? So if the VANOS was mistimed in the first place...no > biggie? C'mon! > When installing the Eurosport cam kit on Wayne's car, Josh was > telling the tech > to place a 2.5mm allen key under the cam lock to advance/retard one > of the > cams. We're taling about that precise! > > Learn what you're doing first before proceeding and if you guys have > no idea > what you're talking about, you should really not spread > misinformation. > > Chester
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#10. Re: [E36M3] Re: Vanos install question - from Chester Wong
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:04:51 -0800 (PST) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Vanos install question The factory probably didn't get it wrong, but how many of you with high mileage engines or even low mileage engines didn't have the can 'o marbles and had the VANOS replaced at the dealer? Chester --- Steve Klein <s.klein@steveklein.cc> wrote: > I was in the same boat with an early UUC Lt. Wt. fly with now dowel > hole, so I used a dial indicator in Cyl 1 to verify the timing marks > and confirmed that TDC on the balancer and case mark (S50) was dead on. > > I'd be surprised to learn of any factory motors with the timing marks > off as far as has been stated.