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#1. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:09:22 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question On Thursday 14 February 2008 8:29:44 pm Reed Nicholson wrote: > I'm not sure about the best way to test, but if it turns out your speakers > are blown, Bavarian Soundwerks makes pretty decent replacement speakers. I > have a set of their midrange drivers in my 98 M3 with the HK upgrade...the > stock ones crapped out on me a couple years ago. They are at least as good > as the stock HK speakers. The Bavarian Soundwerks stuff is nice, but its waaayyyy overpriced IMO, you can put your own setup together for 1/3rd the price pretty easy (even less if you shop around), and if you are running a stock HU, the prices are even more ridiculous since the stock HU's don't exactly put out clean audio....money is wasted on 'good' speakers with the stock HU and amp. I would strongly suggest that anyone shopping for a Bavarian Soundwerks setup look into some other options....lots of really nice components out there are available at fractions of the price of their gear, you just need to do a little work to wire them up since they are not quite plug-n-play...but you will save a ton of cash. Its nice that someone out there makes plug-in systems for the e36 but its just a ripoff if you can do some basic work yourself... Dave
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#2. RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Paul Andrews
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:38:23 -0500 From: "Paul Andrews" <emosound@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question I'm in this situation now, too. I'm going the "custom" route. But I will say if you just want no-hassle drop-in speakers, BSW is the way to go. The problem, of course, is you're still stuck with the puny stock amp. It doesn't take much to overdrive it, and overdriving an amp kills speakers, fast. My setup will be: Kenwood HU (already installed) 50Wx4 amp 12" sub (comes out for autox) Boston Acoustics SL60 components in the front I'm running wiring from the HU to the trunk, where the amp and component crossovers will reside. I'll use the stock speaker wiring from the crossover to the speakers, just for easy of wiring. Paul Andrews 98 M3/4 # 42 STU
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#3. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Bill and Jan Klemme
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:44:55 -0500 From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question Thanks for all the helpful responses. Dave, I did look at their website and thought "Man, I don't want to pay $500 for speakers in my car!". I can't even appreciate good sound because of the noise level in a convertible. If I can hear it (without distortion), I'm happy. Nothing like driving along the ocean on a hot summer day with the top down, Beach Boys playing just loud enough so I don't disturb the folks on the beach. Looks like I need to take everything out and try to find individual replacements. I do not mind wiring and soldering a bit. Question is, are crossovers built into the speakers or are they in the wiring between the speakers and the amp? Guess the Audio Pro's who look at mine will be able to tell. I have the feeling that speakers get tender with age even if they aren't used much. Years ago the speaker material simply got dried out and brittle causing it to crack easily. Is that still the case or is speaker material nowadays more durable? Thanks again, Bill K Dave Thomas wrote: > The Bavarian Soundwerks stuff is nice, but its waaayyyy overpriced IMO, you > can put your own setup together for 1/3rd the price pretty easy (even less if > you shop around), and if you are running a stock HU, the prices are even more > ridiculous since the stock HU's don't exactly put out clean audio....money is > wasted on 'good' speakers with the stock HU and amp. I would strongly suggest > that anyone shopping for a Bavarian Soundwerks setup look into some other > options....lots of really nice components out there are available at > fractions of the price of their gear, you just need to do a little work to > wire them up since they are not quite plug-n-play...but you will save a ton > of cash. Its nice that someone out there makes plug-in systems for the e36 > but its just a ripoff if you can do some basic work yourself... > > Dave > > >
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#4. RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Reed Nicholson
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:10:21 -0800 From: "Reed Nicholson" <reedthis@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question I don't recall the replacement speakers I bought from them being particularly expensive. You can certainly pay way more. I'm sure if you want to spend a lot of time shopping around and doing wiring you can save some money. I don't think that means their stuff is "waaayyy overpriced". My M3 was "waaayyy overpriced" in many peoples' eyes. Just depends what your priorities are. Reed > > On Thursday 14 February 2008 8:29:44 pm Reed Nicholson wrote: > > I'm not sure about the best way to test, but if it turns out your > > speakers are blown, Bavarian Soundwerks makes pretty decent > > replacement speakers. I have a set of their midrange > drivers in my 98 > > M3 with the HK upgrade...the stock ones crapped out on me a couple > > years ago. They are at least as good as the stock HK speakers. > > The Bavarian Soundwerks stuff is nice, but its waaayyyy > overpriced IMO, you can put your own setup together for 1/3rd > the price pretty easy (even less if you shop around), and if > you are running a stock HU, the prices are even more > ridiculous since the stock HU's don't exactly put out clean > audio....money is wasted on 'good' speakers with the stock HU > and amp. I would strongly suggest that anyone shopping for a > Bavarian Soundwerks setup look into some other > options....lots of really nice components out there are > available at fractions of the price of their gear, you just > need to do a little work to wire them up since they are not > quite plug-n-play...but you will save a ton of cash. Its nice > that someone out there makes plug-in systems for the e36 but > its just a ripoff if you can do some basic work yourself... > > Dave > >
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#5. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Jay Hudson
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:13:22 -0800 From: "Jay Hudson" <jwhud@budget.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question The x-overs are in the amp. In your system each channel has it's own x-over. Most speakers of good quality, within the past 5 years, have polycarbonate cones and natural rubber surrounds so they are less affected by weather and ozone. There is a forum specifically for the sale and purchase of car audio stuff on Bimmerforums dot com. You may want to take a look for some used OEM speakers if you don't want to buy aftermarket. Folks who upgrade quite often sell their old OEM stuff. Jay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill and Jan Klemme" <wklemme@gmail.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:49 AM Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question > Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:44:55 -0500 > From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question > > Thanks for all the helpful responses. > Dave, I did look at their website and thought "Man, I don't want to pay > $500 for speakers in my car!". I can't even appreciate good sound because > of the noise level in a convertible. If I can hear it (without > distortion), I'm happy. Nothing like driving along the ocean on a hot > summer day with the top down, Beach Boys playing just loud enough so I > don't disturb the folks on the beach. > > Looks like I need to take everything out and try to find individual > replacements. I do not mind wiring and soldering a bit. Question is, are > crossovers built into the speakers or are they in the wiring between the > speakers and the amp? Guess the Audio Pro's who look at mine will be able > to tell. > > I have the feeling that speakers get tender with age even if they aren't > used much. Years ago the speaker material simply got dried out and > brittle causing it to crack easily. Is that still the case or is speaker > material nowadays more durable? > > Thanks again, > Bill K >
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#6. RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Paul Andrews
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:20:14 -0500 From: "Paul Andrews" <emosound@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question The crossovers are in the amp itself. 4 channels in , 10 channels out. The convertible is a little different, IIRC. I'll look it up in the Bentley. The midrange in the door is a hard-to-find size, your best bet is the BSW mid. The other speakers are standard sizes, but not standard resistances (ohms). They all are just paper drivers. Just about any quality replacement set will be polypropylene or some other more-durable material. Paul Andrews 98 M3/4 # 42 STU Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:44:55 -0500 From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question Looks like I need to take everything out and try to find individual replacements. I do not mind wiring and soldering a bit. Question is, are crossovers built into the speakers or are they in the wiring between the speakers and the amp? Guess the Audio Pro's who look at mine will be able to tell. I have the feeling that speakers get tender with age even if they aren't used much. Years ago the speaker material simply got dried out and brittle causing it to crack easily. Is that still the case or is speaker material nowadays more durable? Thanks again, Bill K
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#7. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:55:21 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question On Friday 15 February 2008 8:19:45 am Reed Nicholson wrote: > I don't recall the replacement speakers I bought from them being > particularly expensive. You can certainly pay way more. I'm sure if you > want to spend a lot of time shopping around and doing wiring you can save > some money. I don't think that means their stuff is "waaayyy overpriced". > My M3 was "waaayyy overpriced" in many peoples' eyes. Just depends what > your priorities are. I think perhaps you have not priced their products lately. A basic 'stage 1' speaker set for a e36 coupe starts at $499....and they are not even that good of speakers. And $109 for a pair of paper coned front door mid's (almost $200 if you need tweeters)? I think that falls well into the 'waaayyy overpriced' category considering they are only mediocre speakers at best. Nothing wrong with mediocre speakers...as long as you are not paying a premium price for them. If people find that much value in not having to do any wiring at all, great, I personally think its a ripoff. Dave
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#8. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:00:31 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question On Friday 15 February 2008 8:29:46 am Paul Andrews wrote: > The midrange in the door is a hard-to-find size, your best bet is the BSW > mid. For the doors I think the best option is to just leave the 'mid driver' disconnected, replace the tweeter, and the 5-1/4" speaker in the kick panel. Those mids are like 2"...not much of a mid even when new and working. If you go that route you can get tons of component sets that will fit well, you just may need to get a little creative in how you mount the new tweeter in the OE pod as the OE one is super tiny...I had to Dremel out mine a bit to make room but the result is a OE look. Dave
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#9. RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Reed Nicholson
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:20:17 -0800 From: "Reed Nicholson" <reedthis@comcast.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] speaker/radio question Okay, we just disagree then. All I know is my stock mids deteriorated and the system sounded like crap. For $100 or so I easily fixed the problem and it sounds as good or better than new. With extra time and trouble maybe I could have done it cheaper. But I have a hard time feeling ripped off. Reed > > I think perhaps you have not priced their products lately. A > basic 'stage 1' > speaker set for a e36 coupe starts at $499....and they are > not even that good of speakers. And $109 for a pair of paper > coned front door mid's (almost $200 if you need tweeters)? I > think that falls well into the 'waaayyy overpriced' > category considering they are only mediocre speakers at best. > Nothing wrong with mediocre speakers...as long as you are not > paying a premium price for them. If people find that much > value in not having to do any wiring at all, great, I > personally think its a ripoff. > > Dave
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#10. Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question - from Dave Thomas
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Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:22:50 -0800 From: Dave Thomas <dave@sasdatalink.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] speaker/radio question On Friday 15 February 2008 7:44:55 am Bill and Jan Klemme wrote: > Thanks for all the helpful responses. > Dave, I did look at their website and thought "Man, I don't want to pay > $500 for speakers in my car!". I can't even appreciate good sound > because of the noise level in a convertible. If I can hear it (without > distortion), I'm happy. Nothing like driving along the ocean on a hot > summer day with the top down, Beach Boys playing just loud enough so I > don't disturb the folks on the beach. Check here for an idea of what 5 1/4" component sets go for: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i73_5-1-4---component-systems.html Some good deals there. Many of those sets would be a good replacement for the front speakers (ditch the door 'mid', change the tweeter and the mid in the kick-panel) > Looks like I need to take everything out and try to find individual > replacements. I do not mind wiring and soldering a bit. Question is, are > crossovers built into the speakers or are they in the wiring between the > speakers and the amp? Guess the Audio Pro's who look at mine will be > able to tell. Yes, the amp has built-in crossovers, and the wiring is all setup for it. In a pinch you can just replace the speakers and leave the OE amp and wiring, but its far better to take the factory amp and its funky wiring out of the equation. Some of the better modern HU's even have enough juice to drive a modest set of speakers with a problem...if you have a decent HU you may be better off wiring its high-powered output into the harness in place of the OE AMP. Its not real tough to do..you just gotta spend some time with the wiring digram and map it all out. Worth the effort, and it even gets you ready in case you ever wanted to add a proper AMP. > I have the feeling that speakers get tender with age even if they aren't > used much. Years ago the speaker material simply got dried out and > brittle causing it to crack easily. Is that still the case or is > speaker material nowadays more durable? The newer stuff holds up really well, but the stuff that was put in the BMW's is just paper and foam...they fall apart. Dave