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#1. Re: [E36M3] Re: Suspension refresh question - from Chris Teague
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:05:04 -0700 From: "Chris Teague" <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Suspension refresh question Aluminum has a youngs modulus of around 10e6psi, and steel is around 28-30e6psi, so if the geometry is the same, steel would be almost 3 times stiffer that aluminum. I have no idea if the geometry of the two control arms is the same, but if it is, the steel ones would most certainly be stiffer. Whether it would matter is another issue of course. Chris 97 M3/4 ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:51:12 -0400 > From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Suspension refresh question > > Yeah see I don't see where anything about stiffness has ever been > discussed > or shown. And I don't see any inherent reason why the steel would be > stiffer, that's one of the benefits of aluminum is being able to obtain > the > same or better stiffness vs steel but with a weight benefit as well. One > downside, of course, is that aluminum has a fatigue life...
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#2. RE: 17" M3 wheels question...third design - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:42:33 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: RE: 17" M3 wheels question...third design Indeed, correct, they were I believe introduced on the GT. Same weight and style as the other two versions. Regards, Rich From: "MJ" <bmur@usa.net> > > Ah, that would be the polished + stamped/engraved ones that were commonly > found on the other side of the pond. Purty but heavy wheel! > -MJ > > >Easily my favorite E36 M3 wheel, there is also a third version of these > >along with the two mentioned above. Anyone?
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#3. Re: [E36M3] RE: 17" M3 wheels question...third design - from Jerry Brown
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 05:42:50 +0100 From: "Jerry Brown" <dotmumble@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] RE: 17" M3 wheels question...third design Rich, MJ, I have seen these in the UK on the special GT versions of the E36 M3, of which I'm not particularly enamored (not a big fan of green). There, all these variants of the double spoke wheel are typically referred to as M-Tech or Motorsport wheels (although there are other wheels from later 3 series that are also called M-Tech). In fact, one can/could cosmetic options referred to as M-Tech. And yes, all polished double spoke wheels I saw in the year I lived there had polished lips, spoke faces and hubs, and were completely clear-coated. Cheers, -jerry On Thu, 13 Mar 2008 04:44:56 +0100, Rich Dorffer <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> wrote: > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:42:33 -0400 > From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> > Subject: RE: 17" M3 wheels question...third design > > Indeed, correct, they were I believe introduced on the GT. > > Same weight and style as the other two versions. > > Regards, > > Rich > > From: "MJ" <bmur@usa.net> >> >> Ah, that would be the polished + stamped/engraved ones that were >> commonly >> found on the other side of the pond. Purty but heavy wheel! >> -MJ >> >> >Easily my favorite E36 M3 wheel, there is also a third version of these >> >along with the two mentioned above. Anyone? > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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#4. RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Mike Frank
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:06:40 -0400 From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? I've had mine for a couple of years without any problems. I switched to the Al housing so I could tap it for a water temp sender. As others have stated, $1K for the job is a rip-off. Once you start working on your car you quickly realize that almost any job you have done by someone else is a rip-off. There's a reason my local stealer has expanded to roughly 800 service bays. I've even been told by the stealer, "We don't care where you buy your BMW as long as you bring it here for service", with a big grin. BTW, the parts department will also flat out sodomize you. Mike > Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:26:56 -0400 > From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> > Subject: aluminum TS housing junk? > > Today when calling a (BMW specialty) shop about having my cooling system > done, I asked if they used the aluminum thermostat housing and the guy > said no, they went back to the OEM part because they've recently had 4 > cars come back with leaks through the housing. Said it's a very thin > casting at one spot and it gets hot and soon starts weeping through. > Anyone had that problem? I'm getting ready to put all that stuff in soon. > > BTW he quoted me close to $1000 to do the radiator, water pump and the > small bits. $700 just for the parts! I've never used them before, and I > guess I never will... > > Thanks, > Bill K
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#5. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Bill and Jan Klemme
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:43 -0400 From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? OK, that last one convinced me. "Sodomize" hit my cold button. You folks are an interesting lot... colorful language, humor and lots of wisdom. ("..learning how to do this ... yourself - priceless"). :-) I WILL do it myself, even though I (sort of/halfway/reluctantly/gratefully) gave up wrenching and having permanently black fingernails some years ago, I'll do it. The DIY savings are getting bigger all the time. I guess I'm intimidated when I look in there at that beautiful high-tech engine covered with nice-looking plastic. Where do I start? Oh yeah....Bentley. So, out to the toolbox I go. Saving money is a nice incentive, and I can buy a lot of GoJoe and fingernail brushes for $700. Thanks all, Bill K Mike Frank wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:06:40 -0400 > From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > I've had mine for a couple of years without any problems. I switched to the > Al housing so I could tap it for a water temp sender. > > As others have stated, $1K for the job is a rip-off. Once you start working > on your car you quickly realize that almost any job you have done by someone > else is a rip-off. There's a reason my local stealer has expanded to > roughly 800 service bays. I've even been told by the stealer, "We don't > care where you buy your BMW as long as you bring it here for service", with > a big grin. BTW, the parts department will also flat out sodomize you. > > Mike > > >> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:26:56 -0400 >> From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> >> Subject: aluminum TS housing junk? >> >> Today when calling a (BMW specialty) shop about having my cooling system >> done, I asked if they used the aluminum thermostat housing and the guy >> said no, they went back to the OEM part because they've recently had 4 >> cars come back with leaks through the housing. Said it's a very thin >> casting at one spot and it gets hot and soon starts weeping through. >> Anyone had that problem? I'm getting ready to put all that stuff in soon. >> >> BTW he quoted me close to $1000 to do the radiator, water pump and the >> small bits. $700 just for the parts! I've never used them before, and I >> guess I never will... >> >> Thanks, >> Bill K >> > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > >
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#6. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Russel DeArman
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Russel DeArman <russde_93@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? Hi Bill, For me the hardest part of the cooling system service is removing the fan.. I suppose there is a way to do it without the special 'pulley holding' tool, but I couldn't think of a way and the tool is only $20 or so. The rest if the job is really very straight forward. Bleeding the air out of the system is a chore. The bleeder valve on the top of the expansion tank doesn't work very well. When you are ready for this part of the job, put the on jackstands or ramps (safer) and let the car come to operating temp then open the valve. I do that and then shut the car down and let it cool completely, then add fluid as needed. You will probably find that the next few days of driving will 'find' more air in the system, but you can just top off the expansion tank each morning. Good luck, Russ Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:43 -0400 From: Bill and Jan Klemme Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? OK, that last one convinced me. "Sodomize" hit my cold button. You folks are an interesting lot... colorful language, humor and lots of wisdom. ("..learning how to do this ... yourself - priceless"). :-) I WILL do it myself, even though I (sort of/halfway/reluctantly/gratefully) gave up wrenching and having permanently black fingernails some years ago, I'll do it. The DIY savings are getting bigger all the time. I guess I'm intimidated when I look in there at that beautiful high-tech engine covered with nice-looking plastic. Where do I start? Oh yeah....Bentley. So, out to the toolbox I go. Saving money is a nice incentive, and I can buy a lot of GoJoe and fingernail brushes for $700. Thanks all, Bill K Mike Frank wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:06:40 -0400 > From: "Mike Frank" > Subject: RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > I've had mine for a couple of years without any problems. I switched to the > Al housing so I could tap it for a water temp sender. > > As others have stated, $1K for the job is a rip-off. Once you start working > on your car you quickly realize that almost any job you have done by someone > else is a rip-off. There's a reason my local stealer has expanded to > roughly 800 service bays. I've even been told by the stealer, "We don't > care where you buy your BMW as long as you bring it here for service", with > a big grin. BTW, the parts department will also flat out sodomize you. > > Mike > > >> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:26:56 -0400 >> From: Bill and Jan Klemme >> Subject: aluminum TS housing junk? >> >> Today when calling a (BMW specialty) shop about having my cooling system >> done, I asked if they used the aluminum thermostat housing and the guy >> said no, they went back to the OEM part because they've recently had 4 >> cars come back with leaks through the housing. Said it's a very thin >> casting at one spot and it gets hot and soon starts weeping through. >> Anyone had that problem? I'm getting ready to put all that stuff in soon. >> >> BTW he quoted me close to $1000 to do the radiator, water pump and the >> small bits. $700 just for the parts! I've never used them before, and I >> guess I never will... >> >> Thanks, >> Bill K >> > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com DIGEST INFORMATION: http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm ************************************************* --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
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#7. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:15:43 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? Fan clutch removal is easy. Get yerself a thin 32mm wrench....either buy one or get a regular one from HD or Lowes or similar and grind it down so it's thin (I've had mine now for about 10 years and it's been used by more people around here than a hooker on 8mile, still fabulous....unlike a hooker on 8mile. Now before doing this check the swing of the wrench to make sure it's not going to hit anything. Put said wrench on the clutch nut, whack with a shot filled mallet until it breaks free, usually takes a few good whacks. I've never been denied, no lube required (still talking about the fan clutch just to be clear). Easy. Cheers. Jack Money On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Russel DeArman <russde_93@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:03:01 -0700 (PDT) > From: Russel DeArman <russde_93@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > Hi Bill, > For me the hardest part of the cooling system service is removing the fan.. I suppose there is a way to do it without the special 'pulley holding' tool, but I couldn't think of a way and the tool is only $20 or so. > The rest if the job is really very straight forward. Bleeding the air out of the system is a chore. The bleeder valve on the top of the expansion tank doesn't work very well. When you are ready for this part of the job, put the on jackstands or ramps (safer) and let the car come to operating temp then open the valve. I do that and then shut the car down and let it cool completely, then add fluid as needed. You will probably find that the next few days of driving will 'find' more air in the system, but you can just top off the expansion tank each morning. > Good luck, > Russ > > Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:43 -0400 > From: Bill and Jan Klemme > Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > OK, that last one convinced me. "Sodomize" hit my cold button. You > folks are an interesting lot... colorful language, humor and lots of > wisdom. ("..learning how to do this ... yourself - priceless"). :-) > I WILL do it myself, even though I (sort > of/halfway/reluctantly/gratefully) gave up wrenching and having > permanently black fingernails some years ago, I'll do it. The DIY > savings are getting bigger all the time. I guess I'm intimidated when I > look in there at that beautiful high-tech engine covered with > nice-looking plastic. Where do I start? Oh yeah....Bentley. > > So, out to the toolbox I go. Saving money is a nice incentive, and I can > buy a lot of GoJoe and fingernail brushes for $700. > Thanks all, > Bill K > > Mike Frank wrote: > > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:06:40 -0400 > > From: "Mike Frank" > > Subject: RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > > > I've had mine for a couple of years without any problems. I switched to the > > Al housing so I could tap it for a water temp sender. > > > > As others have stated, $1K for the job is a rip-off. Once you start working > > on your car you quickly realize that almost any job you have done by someone > > else is a rip-off. There's a reason my local stealer has expanded to > > roughly 800 service bays. I've even been told by the stealer, "We don't > > care where you buy your BMW as long as you bring it here for service", with > > a big grin. BTW, the parts department will also flat out sodomize you. > > > > Mike > > > > > >> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:26:56 -0400 > >> From: Bill and Jan Klemme > > >> Subject: aluminum TS housing junk? > >> > >> Today when calling a (BMW specialty) shop about having my cooling system > >> done, I asked if they used the aluminum thermostat housing and the guy > >> said no, they went back to the OEM part because they've recently had 4 > >> cars come back with leaks through the housing. Said it's a very thin > >> casting at one spot and it gets hot and soon starts weeping through. > >> Anyone had that problem? I'm getting ready to put all that stuff in soon. > >> > >> BTW he quoted me close to $1000 to do the radiator, water pump and the > >> small bits. $700 just for the parts! I've never used them before, and I > >> guess I never will... > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Bill K > >> > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#8. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Mark D
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:23:55 -0400 From: Mark D <mdlkml@atari-source.org> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? Get a nice jump suit and some nitrile gloves. Also heater and a/c for garage, good lift equipment and a bunch of flourescent tube shoplights. A loud radio doesn't hurt either. Your wrenching life will never be the same. The DIY savings are huge these days. I paid $3K to refresh the top end of my engine and replaced numerous cooling system/sensors that were completely unrelated. That $3K includes purchasing all special tools, manuals, etc necessary to do the job. I also splurged on some new tools for myself... torque wrench, shelving, etc. I was saving so much money why not? My friend had to do a similar job on his 04 STi (which failed with just 150,000 miles...) and Subraru charged him a grand total of $9000. They didn't even replace his cracked turbo for that number. He walked away with a car that has a failed "fuel pressure sensor" and is currently undriveable. Such a sensor would have been replaced during my job. Later when it came time to do the timing belt in my 3000GT, I swore the whole way through that god awful job while laughing all the way home in the end with my new air compressor that I purchased with the money saved. All in all despite all my spiffy tools, I'm way up compared to paying someone. After installing some speakers and other things in the 3000GT I must say, that car is the most insanely stupidly designed car in the ENTIRE WORLD! You're talking things like "remove the front and rear seat belts in order to remove the entire drivers side trim panel in order to access the rear 6x9. In the engine compartment you have to do things like disconnect a major engine mount and support the engine in order to remove and reinstall the timing belt. When you reinstall the timing belt a careful dance of "implied" torque on the timing belt against the hydraulic tensioner is required to pretension it. The M3 conversely is "insert $5 special tool and torque to 3 Nm. Tighten chain bolts". Quite a difference. The moral of the story is that if you never wrenched on a BMW and you've worked on other models for a long time, you might be in for quite a surprise. Amazing design of everything all the way down to the electrical connectors. That may not apply to the E46 who has in just a few small jobs spilled oil all over the place and caused substantial hearing loss trying to get out a ridiculously huge bushing from the rear diff. Thanks, Mark Bill and Jan Klemme wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:43 -0400 > From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > OK, that last one convinced me. "Sodomize" hit my cold button. You > folks are an interesting lot... colorful language, humor and lots of > wisdom. ("..learning how to do this ... yourself - priceless"). :-) > I WILL do it myself, even though I (sort > of/halfway/reluctantly/gratefully) gave up wrenching and having > permanently black fingernails some years ago, I'll do it. The DIY > savings are getting bigger all the time. I guess I'm intimidated when > I look in there at that beautiful high-tech engine covered with > nice-looking plastic. Where do I start? Oh yeah....Bentley. > > So, out to the toolbox I go. Saving money is a nice incentive, and I > can buy a lot of GoJoe and fingernail brushes for $700. > Thanks all, > Bill K > > Mike Frank wrote: >> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:06:40 -0400 >> From: "Mike Frank" <mfrank28@insightbb.com> >> Subject: RE: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? >> >> I've had mine for a couple of years without any problems. I switched >> to the >> Al housing so I could tap it for a water temp sender. >> >> As others have stated, $1K for the job is a rip-off. Once you start >> working >> on your car you quickly realize that almost any job you have done by >> someone >> else is a rip-off. There's a reason my local stealer has expanded to >> roughly 800 service bays. I've even been told by the stealer, "We don't >> care where you buy your BMW as long as you bring it here for >> service", with >> a big grin. BTW, the parts department will also flat out sodomize you. >> >> Mike >> >>> Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:26:56 -0400 >>> From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> >>> Subject: aluminum TS housing junk? >>> >>> Today when calling a (BMW specialty) shop about having my cooling >>> system >>> done, I asked if they used the aluminum thermostat housing and the guy >>> said no, they went back to the OEM part because they've recently had 4 >>> cars come back with leaks through the housing. Said it's a very thin >>> casting at one spot and it gets hot and soon starts weeping through. >>> Anyone had that problem? I'm getting ready to put all that stuff in >>> soon. >>> >>> BTW he quoted me close to $1000 to do the radiator, water pump and the >>> small bits. $700 just for the parts! I've never used them before, >>> and I >>> guess I never will... >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Bill K >>>
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#9. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Jim Bassett
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:32:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jim Bassett" <jim@jimbassett.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? On Thu, March 13, 2008 10:24 am, Jack - Elephant Motorsports wrote: > Now before doing this check the swing of the wrench to make sure it's > not going to hit anything. Put said wrench on the clutch nut, whack > with a shot filled mallet until it breaks free, usually takes a few > good whacks. You know, I've watched my mechanics do this, but when I've tried I've been unsuccessful. Anybody who has met me in person is probably not surprised :-) Since I have 2 E36s to service, it was worth it to me to by the pump holder tool from Victory(?). Been used 3-4 times so far, both on my own cars, and helping save a couple of track days for friend's cars. As for bleeding the system, I'm pretty sure I've posted here before the procedure that one of my mechanics outlined for me. Works great, and easy to do. Do a search of the archives, you should find it. (One of these days, it might be a good idea for me to post these "pearls of wisdom" of mine (LOL) on my web page; great another thing on the "To Do" list :-)) Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 1993 325is #44 JP
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#10. Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? - from Kent L. Shephard
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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:42:24 -0700 From: "Kent L. Shephard" <e36m3@kshephard.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? Oh cheer up! You don't have to have black fingernails. You ever heard of mechanic's gloves? 9-} Oh, I have the manual on disk. So I can print pages when I need them. I forget who published it. Kent On Mar 13, 2008, at 9:44 AM, Bill and Jan Klemme wrote: > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:37:43 -0400 > From: Bill and Jan Klemme <wklemme@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] aluminum TS housing junk? > > OK, that last one convinced me. "Sodomize" hit my cold button. You > folks are an interesting lot... colorful language, humor and lots > of wisdom. ("..learning how to do this ... yourself - > priceless"). :-) I WILL do it myself, even though I (sort of/ > halfway/reluctantly/gratefully) gave up wrenching and having > permanently black fingernails some years ago, I'll do it. The DIY > savings are getting bigger all the time. I guess I'm intimidated > when I look in there at that beautiful high-tech engine covered > with nice-looking plastic. Where do I start? Oh yeah....Bentley. > > So, out to the toolbox I go. Saving money is a nice incentive, and > I can buy a lot of GoJoe and fingernail brushes for $700. > Thanks all, > Bill K