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#1. Re: HP Calculation - from Neil Maller
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:44:49 -0400 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: HP Calculation on 3/21/08 1:52 PM, E36M3 at e36m3@bmw-m.net wrote: > I have a friend that makes the argument that > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. So if you install a 50hp engine instead and the losses are still 60hp then...? Neil Fort Wayne, IN 96 M3 - Bastard child 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD
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#2. Re: [E36M3] Re: HP Calculation - from Azik [Hotmail]
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:37:24 +0100 From: "Azik [Hotmail]" <azik@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: HP Calculation :) Or the car will not take off with 1000 RPM as the power is only about 40hp at that mark? I just chcked my dyno results. that was an old and crappy stend so I don't trust them much (patially because they appear to be on lower side of the quoted 321 HP of Euro 3.2 engine) My losses are biggesst at 7400 RPM at 5th gear and slightly less in 4th gear I have 264 rwhp with 300 on the engine (13.6 % loss). seems a bit low but the good thing is that I have 240 rwhp from 5400 to 264 rwhp at 6400 RPM which is then staying flat till 7400 RPM. Apparently there was a traction problem on that dyno - the rear was jumping (no straps were used) so we had to add some batteries to the trunk but never went passt 300Hp I need to visit a good dyno., that's for sure. Azar '98 M3 Euro Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Maller" <neil.maller@gte.net> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 7:52 PM Subject: [E36M3] Re: HP Calculation > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:44:49 -0400 > From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> > Subject: Re: HP Calculation > > on 3/21/08 1:52 PM, E36M3 at e36m3@bmw-m.net wrote: > >> I have a friend that makes the argument that >> drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 >> hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. > > So if you install a 50hp engine instead and the losses are still 60hp > then...? > > Neil > Fort Wayne, IN > 96 M3 - Bastard child > 03 525iT - Sterling Grey Metallic > 05 Mini - Cooper S with LSD > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#3. HP Calculation - from Rich Dorffer
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:44:43 -0400 From: "Rich Dorffer" <E36M3Digest@gmail.com> Subject: HP Calculation > > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> > Subject: HP Calculation > > I have a friend that makes the argument that > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. > It doesn't make sense to me. Drivetrain loss is due laregely to friction, that friction takes place in various areas of the drivetrain, some of it is proporitonal and some of it is fixed. In my opinion, using a percentage is for simplification. In reality, with a portion of the lost fixed and a portion variable, it is somewhere in between a straight percentage and a fixed amount as your friend is suggesting. Regards, Rich
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#4. Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation - from Matt Bader
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:25:57 -0400 From: Matt Bader <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation We've had this discussion before on this list, and the general consensus is no, it doesn't work that way. I thought it made sense, too, but I believe your friend has it wrong. Matt Bader kjk wrote: > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> > Subject: HP Calculation > > I have a friend that makes the argument that > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. > > Kevin Kelly > '95 M3 > '91 M5 > '00 323iT > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#5. Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation - from drevans@fuse.net
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:40:34 -0400 From: <drevans@fuse.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation As some others have pointed out, there are too many variables. I used to work on sprint car and we had them on the chasis dyno and we would see an increase or decrease in HP dependant upon how much stagger we had in the car at the time of the pull. It was actually very eye opening to how tire stagger affected the power output at the wheels. Rich ---- kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> wrote: > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> > Subject: HP Calculation > > I have a friend that makes the argument that > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. > > Kevin Kelly > '95 M3 > '91 M5 > '00 323iT > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > >
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#6. Re: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback - from Chris Teague
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:58:47 -0700 From: Chris Teague <cteague@cox.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback Next time I'll pay attention. ;-) I have the Direzza Sport Z1's, which should be one of the top "street" autox tires. I know nothing about the DZ101's except they sound a lot like what I have. ;-) Anyone old enough to remember Emily Litella's famous saying? ;-) Chris Old enough to remember, but not old enough to forget. On Mar 21, 2008, at 8:12 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:03:57 -0400 > From: "Paul Andrews" <emosound@verizon.net> > Subject: RE: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback > > Just to clarify guys, Dunlop has 2 tires that sound similar. The > Direzza > Sport Z1 is the Extreme performance street (ST-class autocross) > tire, now > discontinued and replaced with the Z1 Star Spec. The DZ101 is the > real > street tire, not meant for autocross. > > > Paul Andrews > 98 M3/4 > # 42 STU
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#7. RE: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback - from Paul Andrews
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:49:53 -0400 From: "Paul Andrews" <emosound@verizon.net> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback Dunlop has too many tire names. :-) I have a set of the Star Specs on order, hope they come soon! Google remembers! I had to look up Emily Litella. :-/ Paul Andrews 98 M3/4 # 42 STU -----Original Message----- From: Chris Teague [mailto:cteague@cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 8:59 PM To: Paul Andrews Cc: E36M3 Subject: Re: [E36M3] Dunlop Direzza DZ101 - feedback Next time I'll pay attention. ;-) I have the Direzza Sport Z1's, which should be one of the top "street" autox tires. I know nothing about the DZ101's except they sound a lot like what I have. ;-) Anyone old enough to remember Emily Litella's famous saying? ;-) Chris Old enough to remember, but not old enough to forget.
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#8. Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation - from Jack - Elephant Motorsports
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:21:23 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation Years ago when I worked at Visteon we had a portable dyno...the same as the ones that are common now but back then they were not. Anyway, we used it for driveline NVH work but every so often we'd have requests to do HP pulls for various programs. We did some for the Mustang guys when they were up against the fence on their HP claims for the Cobra. It was interesting to note how even tire pressure affected HP pulls. Jack Money On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM, <drevans@fuse.net> wrote: > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:40:34 -0400 > From: <drevans@fuse.net> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation > > As some others have pointed out, there are too many variables. I used to work on sprint car and we had them on the chasis dyno and we would see an increase or decrease in HP dependant upon how much stagger we had in the car at the time of the pull. It was actually very eye opening to how tire stagger affected the power output at the wheels. > > Rich > > > ---- kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) > > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> > > Subject: HP Calculation > > > > I have a friend that makes the argument that > > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 > > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. > > > > Kevin Kelly > > '95 M3 > > '91 M5 > > '00 323iT > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > ************************************************* > > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >
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#9. Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation - from Matt Bader
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 17:05:39 -0400 From: Matt Bader <mbader@exammaster.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> If it is the earlier Cobra you are talking about, I think mid-nineties, I think it was originally rated at 240 hp wasn't it? At that time I believe the Mustang GT was rated at 225 crank horse power but testing subsequently revealed it was more like 200.<br> <br> Matt Bader<br> 98 M3/4<br> Delaware<br> <br> Jack - Elephant Motorsports wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:08032215223910.03768@SVList.com" type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:21:23 -0400 From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jack@elephantmotorsports.com"><jack@elephantmotorsports.com></a> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation Years ago when I worked at Visteon we had a portable dyno...the same as the ones that are common now but back then they were not. Anyway, we used it for driveline NVH work but every so often we'd have requests to do HP pulls for various programs. We did some for the Mustang guys when they were up against the fence on their HP claims for the Cobra. It was interesting to note how even tire pressure affected HP pulls. Jack Money On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:drevans@fuse.net"><drevans@fuse.net></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:40:34 -0400 From: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:drevans@fuse.net"><drevans@fuse.net></a> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation As some others have pointed out, there are too many variables. I used to work on sprint car and we had them on the chasis dyno and we would see an increase or decrease in HP dependant upon how much stagger we had in the car at the time of the pull. It was actually very eye opening to how tire stagger affected the power output at the wheels. Rich ---- kjk <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:quierom5@yahoo.com"><quierom5@yahoo.com></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:quierom5@yahoo.com"><quierom5@yahoo.com></a> Subject: HP Calculation I have a friend that makes the argument that drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. Kevin Kelly '95 M3 '91 M5 '00 323iT ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs">http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs</a> ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bimmerworld.com">http://www.bimmerworld.com</a> Turner Motorsport <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.turnermotorsport.com">http://www.turnermotorsport.com</a> Eurosport High Performance <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com">http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com</a> Rogue Engineering <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rogueengineering.com">http://www.rogueengineering.com</a> Treehouse Racing <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.treehouseracing.com">http://www.treehouseracing.com</a> Elephant Motorsports Inc. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.elephantmotorsports.com">http://www.elephantmotorsports.com</a> DIGEST INFORMATION: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm">http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm</a> ************************************************* </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""> ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bimmerworld.com">http://www.bimmerworld.com</a> Turner Motorsport <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.turnermotorsport.com">http://www.turnermotorsport.com</a> Eurosport High Performance <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com">http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com</a> Rogue Engineering <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rogueengineering.com">http://www.rogueengineering.com</a> Treehouse Racing <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.treehouseracing.com">http://www.treehouseracing.com</a> Elephant Motorsports Inc. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.elephantmotorsports.com">http://www.elephantmotorsports.com</a> DIGEST INFORMATION: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm">http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm</a> ************************************************* </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap=""><!----> ************************************************* Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: Bimmerworld <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bimmerworld.com">http://www.bimmerworld.com</a> Turner Motorsport <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.turnermotorsport.com">http://www.turnermotorsport.com</a> Eurosport High Performance <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com">http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com</a> Rogue Engineering <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.rogueengineering.com">http://www.rogueengineering.com</a> Treehouse Racing <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.treehouseracing.com">http://www.treehouseracing.com</a> Elephant Motorsports Inc. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.elephantmotorsports.com">http://www.elephantmotorsports.com</a> DIGEST INFORMATION: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm">http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm</a> ************************************************* </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html>
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#10. Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation - from Azik [Hotmail]
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:39:46 +0100 From: "Azik [Hotmail]" <azik@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation So which tyre pressure would yield more power? higher or lower? Azar, '97 528iA, '98 M3 3.2 Coupe (oOO\(||||)(||||)/OOo) /|OO|(||||)(||||)|OO|\ Celle, Germany ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> To: "E36M3" <e36m3@bmw-m.net> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation > Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:21:23 -0400 > From: "Jack - Elephant Motorsports" <jack@elephantmotorsports.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation > > Years ago when I worked at Visteon we had a portable dyno...the same > as the ones that are common now but back then they were not. Anyway, > we used it for driveline NVH work but every so often we'd have > requests to do HP pulls for various programs. We did some for the > Mustang guys when they were up against the fence on their HP claims > for the Cobra. It was interesting to note how even tire pressure > affected HP pulls. > > Jack Money > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 5:52 PM, <drevans@fuse.net> wrote: >> Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:40:34 -0400 >> From: <drevans@fuse.net> >> Subject: Re: [E36M3] HP Calculation >> >> As some others have pointed out, there are too many variables. I used to >> work on sprint car and we had them on the chasis dyno and we would see an >> increase or decrease in HP dependant upon how much stagger we had in the >> car at the time of the pull. It was actually very eye opening to how >> tire stagger affected the power output at the wheels. >> >> Rich >> >> >> ---- kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:39:43 -0700 (PDT) >> > From: kjk <quierom5@yahoo.com> >> > Subject: HP Calculation >> > >> > I have a friend that makes the argument that >> > drivetrain loss stays fixed. If it is 60 hp, it is 60 >> > hp with 300 hp or 350hp. Seems to make sense. >> > >> > Kevin Kelly >> > '95 M3 >> > '91 M5 >> > '00 323iT >> > >> > >> > >> > ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. >> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> > >> > >> > ************************************************* >> > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> > >> > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> > >> > DIGEST INFORMATION: >> > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> > ************************************************* >> > >> > >> >> >> >> ************************************************* >> Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: >> >> Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com >> Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com >> Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com >> Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com >> Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com >> Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com >> >> DIGEST INFORMATION: >> http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm >> ************************************************* >> >> >> > > > ************************************************* > Please help support the E36M3 list by visiting our sponsors: > > Bimmerworld http://www.bimmerworld.com > Turner Motorsport http://www.turnermotorsport.com > Eurosport High Performance http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com > Rogue Engineering http://www.rogueengineering.com > Treehouse Racing http://www.treehouseracing.com > Elephant Motorsports Inc. http://www.elephantmotorsports.com > > DIGEST INFORMATION: > http://www.bmw-m.net/resources/digest_info.htm > ************************************************* > > >